Fire DB

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Re: fire db

Postby Gaucho on Sun Jan 27, 2013 1:25 pm

Of course they were a big part of the Cup winning team. But that's not the point.
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Re: fire db

Postby shmenguin on Sun Jan 27, 2013 1:32 pm

It's not just sentimentality, though. Gill was a big reason we got bounced against Montreal and scuderi was outstanding in LA's cup run. Things would have been better for us (significantly so) if we were able to keep those guys without the one year of financial ramifications. But there was no way to pull it off. C'est la vie.
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Re: fire db

Postby DelPen on Sun Jan 27, 2013 1:45 pm

There was a way to keep Scuderi and Gill if you don't sign Fedotenko, Guerin and McKee. But you then would have no healthy scratches and have cap issues all year. But it was possible to keep one off them but they didn't think either was worth what they got.
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Re: fire db

Postby Gaucho on Sun Jan 27, 2013 1:56 pm

Wow, I had totally forgotten about McKee.
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Re: fire db

Postby MRandall25 on Sun Jan 27, 2013 2:00 pm

I thought McKee did a good enough job until he got hit with that infection that kept him out a while.

One thing though: did we sign McKee before we knew Scuderi and Gill weren't coming back, or was it after the fact?
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Re: fire db

Postby Desiato on Sun Jan 27, 2013 2:10 pm

shmenguin wrote:It's not just sentimentality, though. Gill was a big reason we got bounced against Montreal and scuderi was outstanding in LA's cup run.

My opinion is that Martin completely out-coached Bylsma in that series. The Pens had no answer for Gill or Cammalleri because Bylsma failed to adapt. Montreal got to the conference finals with a bad team by narrowly defeating two stubborn teams that would only play their game.

The Pens seem to operate on the belief that if they "play their game" they can beat any team, which is pure arrogance.

Scuderi and Gill are excellent role players, but not catalysts. I think that most coaches would tell you, with confidence, they could win a cup with the Pens as currently constructed.
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Re: fire db

Postby 71Aj66ax87 on Sun Jan 27, 2013 2:17 pm

Nizzy wrote:xpert defnse strahteegee diagrum:

Image


I don't get the beach ball analogy.
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Re: fire db

Postby Steve Dave on Sun Jan 27, 2013 2:32 pm

I believe we signed McKee for $800k in August after the Blues bought him out so it would have been after Shero let them walk. Always liked Scuderi.

MRandall25 wrote:I thought McKee did a good enough job until he got hit with that infection that kept him out a while.

One thing though: did we sign McKee before we knew Scuderi and Gill weren't coming back, or was it after the fact?
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Re: fire db

Postby Lesky on Sun Jan 27, 2013 2:36 pm

We should have signed Wade Redden :pop:
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Re: fire db

Postby Gaucho on Sun Jan 27, 2013 2:41 pm

And Jagr.
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Re: fire db

Postby penmyst on Sun Jan 27, 2013 4:01 pm

Let's theoretically drop Scuderi and Gil into this team right now.

What does that solve?

Gil moves like a turtle. Scuderi is awful handling the biscuit.

Put them back there, and then under the intense forecheck pressure coaches are using against HCDB's system. Give Scuds and Gil little to no F support, as those F (per HCDB's system) are circling the top of their own zone waiting to spring (or further sometimes).

What would be the inevitable result? You'd have fans here at the boards frothing at the mouth at how awful Gil is and how he is like a pylon back there. They'd be angry as a swarm of hornets after Scuds coughed up yet another turnover or iced the puck under duress. Why aren't they "getting to their game" is the hue and cry that would be raised on the boards and across the millions and millions in Pens Nation.

What's my point? That those types of players are effective INSIDE TEAM DEFENSE-FIRST systems. Which isn't what the Pens play right now.

It's more of the Magic Bullet theory on players that is ignoring the glaring problem here. The team system is not working well against pressure tactics on their D.

Isn't that the least bit more salient than which deck chairs they are using on this Titanic? Sure let's get the gilded gold chairs. They'll look great sitting on the sea floor 100 years from now.

When I look at this team's defensive woes, I'm not noticing a lot of lack of clearing guys from the front of the net, or not taking hits to make plays.

I see a lot of indecisiveness when retrieving pucks. I see a lot of forecheck getting to those D quickly (perhaps the F need to do a better job holding them up or challenging their entry into the zone, to buy time for the Pens D?). I see a lot of weak, aimless chucking of the pucks in those circumstances as the Pens D only have 1 option of tossing it to their partner....... who also has incoming fire hot on his tail. Rinse and repeat until the inevitably disgruntled Pens F drops back to "help" and then ends up coughing the puck up or trying to force some ridiculous pass through the eye of a needle.

None of those problems is down to "soff" D. It's down to a "soff" system not helping them out under pressure tactics. It's not that HCDB's system has to go entirely by the wayside, but there NEEDS to be a PLAN B for when the other team decides to disrupt HCDB's PLAN A. There doesn't seem to be one. The only tactical move we see in-game is .... TWO HEADED MONSTER!!
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Re: fire db

Postby NeddieVedder on Sun Jan 27, 2013 4:12 pm

Nizzy wrote:WE COULD HAVE GILL AND SCUDERI STILL FOR 5.3 MILLION


It's just not true. Maybe could've had one or the other if they let Guerin and Feds go and put 20-year-old Tangradi in the top 6, which everyone seems pretty cool with.
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Re: fire db

Postby Rylan on Sun Jan 27, 2013 4:18 pm

Can we please stop bringing up Scuderi and Gill. That is now distant past and needs left there.
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Re: fire db

Postby Bowser on Sun Jan 27, 2013 5:32 pm

Dejan has a video up on his blog in which he asks Bylsma about the breakouts and Bylsma gives a lame answer that it is on all five guys.... guess he doesn't think long stretch passes are part of his system even though he has them practice it time after time. Let's see if they tighten the gap and cut down on the long breakouts.
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Re: fire db

Postby SoupOrSam on Sun Jan 27, 2013 8:04 pm

pcm wrote:DB does tons of in-game adjustments. They're just often bad. I think he over-thinks the game, instead of relying on the pulse of what's happening. The result is that he tries to force a particular concept onto the ice, and it doesn't work, doesn't fit. Or worse, it works once or twice and then he does it all the time despite repeated failures.

Do I think he should be fired? Not yet. But if the Pens fall flat this season, then it's time.


I fully agree. If this team yet again fails to go deep in the playoffs, I hope he is shown the door.
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Re: fire db

Postby mikey287 on Sun Jan 27, 2013 9:05 pm

Pens win, hire db!
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Re: fire db

Postby offsides on Sun Jan 27, 2013 9:27 pm

mikey287 wrote:Pens win, hire db!


Yeah, guess he gets a reprieve till the next loss.
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Re: fire db

Postby Godric on Sun Jan 27, 2013 9:32 pm

nope. still fire DB
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Re: fire db

Postby mikey287 on Sun Jan 27, 2013 9:37 pm

I'm going to try to re-watch this game tomorrow and try to examine the play in our zone better. It was improved, but not to the degree that I thought they pushed on the telecast (not that there's a ton of time to re-invent wheels here). It's a fine foundation if we want to build on it, right now it seems like the players were just told to get back deeper, the center was asked to cover the front of the net when the D retrieves behind and they had to figure out the rest. I'm not sure that there was a major change overall, it seemed like more of a change in spacing. Not that I'm not knocking it, I just hope that we build on these rudimentary foundations...
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Re: fire db

Postby Bowser on Sun Jan 27, 2013 10:49 pm

mikey287 - Yeah, I'm not sure I saw much of a change at all. Like you, I saw the centers come down deeper into the zone and clean up the mess down low or a few times cycle through to start the breakout. It wasn't enough on the breakouts as I still saw a TON of stretch passes from blue line to blue line that resulted in tip-ins to the offensive zone and Senators with their mobile defense were able to easily retrieve the puck and start their breakout under no forechecking pressure.

It was marginally better than the disaster that was Winnipeg and the puck management wasn't any better with 19 turnovers in regulation. After the game, Bylsma was asked about the puck management and he said they won't ever have zero turnovers based on the way they play but that's not the issue at hand and he knows it. Teams are able to easily stuff their lame stretch passes and counter-attack or setup their own breakouts without any forechecking pressure.
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Re: fire db

Postby penmyst on Sun Jan 27, 2013 11:50 pm

Bowser wrote:Dejan has a video up on his blog in which he asks Bylsma about the breakouts and Bylsma gives a lame answer that it is on all five guys.... guess he doesn't think long stretch passes are part of his system even though he has them practice it time after time. Let's see if they tighten the gap and cut down on the long breakouts.


You were right on that, Bowser.

Though I agree with your later post that it didn't seem like they made large adjustments. Only minor ones getting the F to stay deeper in their own zone. Still saw a ton of stretch passes, still saw far too many turnovers.

Which reminds me: what the hell is the point of that play where a Pens D fires it from his own end of the ice and a Pens F hangs about the red line to tip it on it's way to the other team's goalie and 2 defensemen? It's a fancy way of handing the puck to the other team. Why? I mean, i can see using it when you desperately need to get a line change. But any other time, it's a free giveaway since there never is a Pen beating the other team to the puck. /shrug
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Re: fire db

Postby Puck Drama on Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:04 am

Imagine how good this team would be if it had a great coach to compliment it?
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Re: fire db

Postby columbia on Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:36 am

Puck Drama wrote:Imagine how good this team would be if it had a great coach to compliment it?


He praises them regularly, so I assume you mean complement.
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Re: fire db

Postby Digitalgypsy66 on Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:38 am

Win a game via gimmick shootout? Great. Monday practice canceled. The Country Club is back in business.

:pop:
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Re: fire db

Postby sil on Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:48 am

Puck Drama wrote:Imagine how good this team would be if it had a great coach to compliment it?


Yeah, but we've still got Nealerovsky out there...so how good can we be, really?
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