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Re: fire db

Postby DocEmrick on Sat Jan 26, 2013 10:59 am

:scared: :scared:
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Re: fire db

Postby brwi on Sat Jan 26, 2013 10:59 am

The 2 wins the Pens played very much like a MT system team that was a little more passive than aggressive, a little more protective of the puck, and stuck pretty consistently to the 1-2-2.

The 2 losses the Pens looked out of control, turning the puck over all the ice and especially in areas where turnovers are killers, attempting way too many cross-ice long passes on d-zone breakouts, and just looking undisciplined in general.

4 games....whether it's a strike-shortened season or not, it's a little early to panic. Pens have been inconsistent but besides the Black Hawks, I'm seeing a lot of other teams trying to get some consistency themselves because it's been 4 GAMES at this point with really no practice or anything else.
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Re: fire db

Postby pens_CT on Sat Jan 26, 2013 11:00 am

DelPen wrote: He just might not be the right coach for this roster right now and part of that is on Shero to know what type of players his coach needs to be successful. Somehow I don't think Byslam has the roster he wants. If he does, we'll yikes.

At some point the coach has to tailor the system to the players he has, not the other way around.
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Re: fire db

Postby Malkamaniac on Sat Jan 26, 2013 11:02 am

stonewizard51 wrote:
Malkamaniac wrote:If Brooks is the toughest stay at home defenseman you have in the playoffs on your roster, playoffs aren't going to matter much.

True.. I'd add neither is a game plan manufactured to play hard for one period and back off the other two.


Certainly don't disagree with that either
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Re: fire db

Postby iceolater on Sat Jan 26, 2013 11:11 am

I would give DB some more time but I am sorry to say, "Letang, Tangradi (the experiment is over) should be used as trade bait to get another winger. Letang I feel is too worried about being on offense that his defense is lacking. Also only 1 or 2 concussions away from lights out. The styel he plays, it is bound to happen. Also, the fact he is a FA and will be demanding $$$$ is he truly worth it? I would pull up Joe Morrow, and another stay at home defensemen. We could get Perry, Getzlaf maybe even Jeff Carter if the price is right. Carter I would love to see in a Pens uniform since he is familar with this division and would be great for Sids line. I am nor never was sold on Dupois being a solid winger for Crosby. Geno has one in Neal now it is time to get one for Sid. Inginla is past his prime so I would get a young talent for the value of a Letang /Tangradi/Pick package or Despres package. Also, Matt Cooke needs to go too. I feel the thugness starting to resurface a bit and feel that before the year is all said and done, he will cost us a game. Just a matter of time. Anyway, just my thoughts but time to cut the ties with some of the popular Pens and regroup the troops.
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Re: fire db

Postby Idoit40fans on Sat Jan 26, 2013 11:18 am

I refuse to believe that is Letang's fault when the system dictates the defense pushing the offense.
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Re: fire db

Postby Bowser on Sat Jan 26, 2013 11:20 am

The breakouts are a huge problem... but the defense, my goodness are they soft.

Hits through 4 games
Orpik -9
Despres, Engelland, Niskanen – 3
Letang, Lovejoy – 2
Martin – 1
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Re: fire db

Postby KG on Sat Jan 26, 2013 11:26 am

brwi wrote:The 2 wins the Pens played very much like a MT system team that was a little more passive than aggressive, a little more protective of the puck, and stuck pretty consistently to the 1-2-2.

The 2 losses the Pens looked out of control, turning the puck over all the ice and especially in areas where turnovers are killers, attempting way too many cross-ice long passes on d-zone breakouts, and just looking undisciplined in general.

4 games....whether it's a strike-shortened season or not, it's a little early to panic. Pens have been inconsistent but besides the Black Hawks, I'm seeing a lot of other teams trying to get some consistency themselves because it's been 4 GAMES at this point with really no practice or anything else.


Good post. I agree...many teams are still trying to find their A-game...
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Re: fire db

Postby pens_CT on Sat Jan 26, 2013 11:31 am

Bowser wrote:The breakouts are a huge problem... but the defense, my goodness are they soft.

Hits through 4 games
Orpik -9
Despres, Engelland, Niskanen – 3
Letang, Lovejoy – 2
Martin – 1

Who were the hitters on d from the team that won the cup? Basically Orpik and to a lesser extent Letang. Certainly not Eaton, Scuderi, or Gonchar. Gill wasn't a hitter unless you count cross-checking somebody in the back. Point being is that cup team's defensemen didn't put the fear of God into anyone from a physicality standpoint. I don't believe that it is an issue with this team either. Lack of team discipline and failing to play smart is a much bigger problem.
Last edited by pens_CT on Sat Jan 26, 2013 11:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: fire db

Postby Bowser on Sat Jan 26, 2013 11:37 am

pens_CT

Of course, you don't big hit numbers but the physical play by the defense has been non-existent. It isn't the reason this team is losing, that's purely on Bylsma's stupid philosophy on the breakouts but it is a little concerning that Orpik and Letang do not have higher numbers.
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Re: fire db

Postby iceolater on Sat Jan 26, 2013 11:38 am

Looking at the stats...Geno and Neal are the top goal scores but also own the worst plus/minus on this team. Is that because of our D not getting the job done on the back end? Which D is usually paired with that line when on the ice? Just a thought as to why they are a total of -7 in only 4 games.
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Re: fire db

Postby Bowser on Sat Jan 26, 2013 11:44 am

Malkin and Neal haven't played that well in their own zone, both with some egregious turnovers, two of which I know for sure lead to goals due to bad decisions by Malkin. They need a defensive presence at LW on their line, that's why I think Kunitz or Dupuis might need to be on their line.
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Re: fire db

Postby joker10277 on Sat Jan 26, 2013 11:50 am

DB is 1-3 in the playoffs since he put in his "system".
Anyone who thinks he's safe in his job are kidding themselves, if they get bounced in the first round again, he's gone and if RS doesn't think so he'll be gone too, because 66 will make the call. This team is built to win now, I'll give him a pass on the year sid and geno were hurt, but if they fail this year that will be his third strike.
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Re: fire db

Postby pens_CT on Sat Jan 26, 2013 11:54 am

Bowser wrote:pens_CT

Of course, you don't big hit numbers but the physical play by the defense has been non-existent. It isn't the reason this team is losing, that's purely on Bylsma's stupid philosophy on the breakouts but it is a little concerning that Orpik and Letang do not have higher numbers.

It's only four games and so I take those numbers with a grain of salt. My point is that this defense is not any softer than the ones that went to two cup finals. They got to play smarter as a team, and begin to play defense as a team again. They accomplished that in game one against Philly, but you could see the old habits kick in when they had the 5-1 lead in NY. The sloppy undisciplined play has carried over into these last two games. Time for HCDB to correct things quickly, lets see if he is up to the task.
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Re: fire db

Postby Fire0nice228 on Sat Jan 26, 2013 11:59 am

iceolater wrote:Looking at the stats...Geno and Neal are the top goal scores but also own the worst plus/minus on this team. Is that because of our D not getting the job done on the back end? Which D is usually paired with that line when on the ice? Just a thought as to why they are a total of -7 in only 4 games.


Malkin has been terrible in the defensive zone. 2 turnovers that led directly to goals and plenty more than led to unnecessary chances for the opposition. I don't know if they're trying to be too cute, or fly the zone to fast , or what, but changes need made.
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Re: fire db

Postby slappybrown on Sat Jan 26, 2013 3:32 pm

DelPen wrote:
Malkamaniac wrote:If Brooks is the toughest stay at home defenseman you have in the playoffs on your roster, playoffs aren't going to matter much.

Matt Carle would look really good on this team right now which is something I wish I never had to write


Even reading this made me feel gross
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Re: fire db

Postby midd on Sat Jan 26, 2013 3:48 pm

I thought the Pens played tight disciplined games to go 2-0. For the next two (both losses) the players felt they could run and gun and they were obviously proven wrong.

This team reminds me of the 94 and 95 squads when they would rather make the pretty pass than shoot the puck.

The defense looks lost. I know it's only Lovejoy's first game but as far as I'm concerned, it should be his last. He is not NHL material.

This was Tangradi's "best" of all the games he played this season. And that's not saying much. I agree Jeffrey should be in the lineup. I guess Tangradi is to Bylsma what Ouellet was to Therrien!
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Re: fire db

Postby pugilist13 on Sat Jan 26, 2013 4:05 pm

mikey287 wrote:Ignoring systems and circumstance for a moment: I don't feel like Bylsma has good control over the team. If the players want to do something, they seem to be able to do it. Early in that Winnipeg game, they actually seemed to be playing pretty good hockey behind the red line, forwards were coming in deeper, they were playing pretty well...and as the game went on, it seemed to get looser and looser...I just wonder how much time Bylsma gets out of his pre-game speech...some coaches get 60 minutes of what they want, I wonder if Bylsma gets even 15? He lost control during the Flyers series, he lost control late last regular season it seems, and I questioned whether he could regain control over the team and I'm not sure that I've seen that quite yet. Assuming of course, they aren't playing the way he wants them to play...

I agree mikey. DB talks about responsible puck control, not giving the puck away, solid play away from the puck. He gets it for 20 minutes last night. The lunatics are running the asylum, thats pretty obvious. maybe it's time for a change. All coaches get tuned out and replaced at some point. This may very well be that time for DB. Especially when you're dealing with superstars.
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Re: fire db

Postby pugilist13 on Sat Jan 26, 2013 4:08 pm

iceolater wrote:Looking at the stats...Geno and Neal are the top goal scores but also own the worst plus/minus on this team. Is that because of our D not getting the job done on the back end? Which D is usually paired with that line when on the ice? Just a thought as to why they are a total of -7 in only 4 games.

Umm, maybe it's because Geno the giveaway machino coughs it up a half dozen times the last two games that led to goals or great chances.
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Re: fire db

Postby Lt. Dish on Sat Jan 26, 2013 4:22 pm

iceolater wrote:I would give DB some more time but I am sorry to say, "Letang, Tangradi (the experiment is over) should be used as trade bait to get another winger. Letang I feel is too worried about being on offense that his defense is lacking. Also only 1 or 2 concussions away from lights out. The styel he plays, it is bound to happen. Also, the fact he is a FA and will be demanding $$$$ is he truly worth it? I would pull up Joe Morrow, and another stay at home defensemen. We could get Perry, Getzlaf maybe even Jeff Carter if the price is right. Carter I would love to see in a Pens uniform since he is familar with this division and would be great for Sids line. I am nor never was sold on Dupois being a solid winger for Crosby. Geno has one in Neal now it is time to get one for Sid. Inginla is past his prime so I would get a young talent for the value of a Letang /Tangradi/Pick package or Despres package. Also, Matt Cooke needs to go too. I feel the thugness starting to resurface a bit and feel that before the year is all said and done, he will cost us a game. Just a matter of time. Anyway, just my thoughts but time to cut the ties with some of the popular Pens and regroup the troops.


It sounds to me that, after 4 games, you're asking for a rebuild. I know some negative things we're dealing with have carried over from the end of last year, but I think many would agree a rebuild isn't remotely necessary. It's a new season and we're 4 games in with a full healthy roster for the first time in two years.

No disrespect (seriously not a cliche here), but it seems to me that there's more reliance on name recognition (Carter? Perry? Getzlaf? Again, Carter?) than a reasoned consideration of how those guys play and how they would actually address what we need. Until we can adjust the roster and address skill needs, we need discipline. Not having Crosby, Malkin, Letang, and Staal for long periods over the past two years forced the team into a tighter, more disciplined manner of play. Now that the stars are back, we can't skate (no pun intended) on pure talent. You can have the most stacked lineup ever and if there's no discipline, well, then all you have are the 1993 Pens.

And, by God, you don't trade Letang. I don't understand the "Letang experiment" notion at all. You just don't concede speed, vision, and toughness. He's been playing well, in the opinion of many; it's not like he's a third-rate Paul Coffey. And, yes, you pay him.

BTW, every single player in the league is one concussion away from light's out.

Cheers!
Last edited by Lt. Dish on Sat Jan 26, 2013 4:28 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: fire db

Postby guiner on Sat Jan 26, 2013 4:25 pm

The U wrote:I realize this is partially in jest. But Shero deserves some blame as well for the past 3 years of postseason failures. And this year, look at our holes....yet look how much cap room and assets we have to trade. Lots of pressure on him to improve the team this yr.


what is scary, look at the drafts, we haven't drafted for **** under Shero IMO. This is why WB is struggling. He has made some good trades and signings, but Shero's drafts so far are real weak.
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Re: fire db

Postby Gaucho on Sat Jan 26, 2013 4:27 pm

Lt. Dish wrote:it seems to me that there's more reliance on name recognition (Carter? Perry? Getzlaf? Again, Carter?) than a reasoned consideration of how those guys play and how they would actually address what we need.



Spoiler:
Image
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Re: fire db

Postby Bowser on Sat Jan 26, 2013 4:30 pm

If Ray Shero decides to fire Dan Bylsma, he's probably going to remain conservative in his approach for a replacement and go with an interim coach such as Tony Granato, Todd Reirden, or John Hynes. I'm not sure that's the type of change this franchise needs at this point in terms of the style of play on the ice. I'm guessing Shero knows this and will probably give Bylsma a full season to succeed or fail.

At this point, it is going to be on the players to adjust and execute these insane breakouts.
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Re: fire db

Postby Gaucho on Sat Jan 26, 2013 4:33 pm

Call me crazy, but I don't think firing Bylsma has ever crossed Shero's mind for even a second.
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Re: fire db

Postby Bowser on Sat Jan 26, 2013 4:44 pm

Craig Patrick was justly ripped for having terrible drafts from 94-99 and since drafting Jordan Staal number two overall in 2006, the highest goal scoring forward is Dustin Jeffrey with 12 goals in 67 games.

Craig Partrick from 94-99
99 - Ryan Malone 171 goals, Tom Kostopolous 60 goals
98 - Milan Kraft 41 goals, Toby Petersen 33
95 - Alexei Morozov 84, Jan Hrdina 101
94 - Richard Park 102, Serge Aubin 44

Ray Shero from 06-12 (any goal scorer at F)
12 - none
11 - none
10 - none
09 - none
08 - none
07 - Luca Caputi 3, Dustin Jeffrey 12
06 - Jordan Staal 120

Pathetic doesn't even describe Shero's work in the draft at forward.

The knock on Patrick was ignoring defensemen, from 94-99 he drafted these guys who played at least 1 game in NHL
94 - Sven Butenschoen
95 - none
96 - Pavel Skrbek, Michal Rozsival
97 - Josef Melichar, Andrew Ference
98 - Rob Scuderi
99 - none
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