New Reason why CEC is not loud

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Re: New Reason why CEC is not loud

Postby Idoit40fans on Sat Jan 26, 2013 11:19 am

Yep. Its not only that people don't get loud, they don't want you standing, cheering or generally having fun. Please keep your back against the chair back. Also don't turn your head, let your eyes follow the play.
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Re: New Reason why CEC is not loud

Postby Grunthy on Sat Jan 26, 2013 11:38 am

I cheer for big goals and big hits, other than that I am relatively quiet. It is not because I don't like cheering, I cannot focus on the game the way I want to when I cheer. So I tend to stay silent because I am in deep concentration watching the game.
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Re: New Reason why CEC is not loud

Postby SLF66 on Sat Jan 26, 2013 11:48 am

Kovy27 wrote:So, there is a theme on twitter that is going around stating that ticket prices are the reason why the CEC is quiet. Does anyone actually believe that? I can see part of that being semi-true, but there are areas in the arena that are not high priced.

Pens avg season ticket price is $141
Jets $82


Am I the only one who thinks those numbers are WAY off?

Either way though, my theory is that a lot more businesses own tickets in Pittsburgh that give them away to people who just don't care that much / need to show up late and leave early to beat traffic.

Winnipeg probably has a lot more true fans owning/purchasing their own tickets and who will be there mid-January and throughout the playoffs.
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Re: New Reason why CEC is not loud

Postby Fire0nice228 on Sat Jan 26, 2013 11:52 am

SLF66 wrote:
Kovy27 wrote:So, there is a theme on twitter that is going around stating that ticket prices are the reason why the CEC is quiet. Does anyone actually believe that? I can see part of that being semi-true, but there are areas in the arena that are not high priced.

Pens avg season ticket price is $141
Jets $82




Either way though, my theory is that a lot more businesses own tickets in Pittsburgh that give them away to people who just don't care that much / need to show up late and leave early to beat traffic.
.



thats the price the hardcore fans pay to have sponsorship dollars for everything from the final 2 minutes before the game to the national anthem to the 3 stars in order to have a cap max team. its a crappy, crappy double edged sword
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Re: New Reason why CEC is not loud

Postby drnort on Sat Jan 26, 2013 11:54 am

SLF66 wrote:
Kovy27 wrote:So, there is a theme on twitter that is going around stating that ticket prices are the reason why the CEC is quiet. Does anyone actually believe that? I can see part of that being semi-true, but there are areas in the arena that are not high priced.

Pens avg season ticket price is $141
Jets $82


Am I the only one who thinks those numbers are WAY off?


I think our First Niagara Club and Captain Morgan Club seats significantly increase our average prices.
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Re: New Reason why CEC is not loud

Postby pens2005 on Sat Jan 26, 2013 12:12 pm

drnort wrote:It has nothing to do with the size or shape of the arena. That argument is ridiculous. If you are at the game, its clear that a large number of people simply have no interest in making noise. The arena acoustics arent making them sit there staring at the ceiling or uploading their view to facebook.

It has almost everything to do with the "location drop" that someone else mentioned. Going to the Pens game is cool. Being a Pens fan is cool. There are a significantly large number of people that are attending games right now that have no real interest in the game of hockey, but only have interest in being a Pens fan. I have nothing against those people. But the fact is, they arent into the games.

It also has nothing to do with ticket prices. It has a lot more to do with the fact that season ticket holders can sell their tickets for a profit. So fans that used to have a reason to attend every game and make for a better atmosphere are now finding any reason they can to sell their tickets, make money, and stay at home. The tickets are being bought by those that simply want to "check out a Pens game."

The same thing started happening at Mellon Arena the last 2 years. Gone are the days of fans attending 30-40 games a year. When the people in the seats change from game to game, the atmosphere suffers.


Again, comparing any of the arenas to winnipegs is dumb. It's widely regarded as the loudest arena in hockey.

CEC is fine. People complaining about the noise are annoying.

It's loud enough. Come playoff time it's rockin' in there.

"But it's not the loudest!" argument people sound like 6 year olds.
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Re: New Reason why CEC is not loud

Postby BurghersAndDogsSports on Sat Jan 26, 2013 12:40 pm

pens2005 wrote:
drnort wrote:It has nothing to do with the size or shape of the arena. That argument is ridiculous. If you are at the game, its clear that a large number of people simply have no interest in making noise. The arena acoustics arent making them sit there staring at the ceiling or uploading their view to facebook.

It has almost everything to do with the "location drop" that someone else mentioned. Going to the Pens game is cool. Being a Pens fan is cool. There are a significantly large number of people that are attending games right now that have no real interest in the game of hockey, but only have interest in being a Pens fan. I have nothing against those people. But the fact is, they arent into the games.

It also has nothing to do with ticket prices. It has a lot more to do with the fact that season ticket holders can sell their tickets for a profit. So fans that used to have a reason to attend every game and make for a better atmosphere are now finding any reason they can to sell their tickets, make money, and stay at home. The tickets are being bought by those that simply want to "check out a Pens game."

The same thing started happening at Mellon Arena the last 2 years. Gone are the days of fans attending 30-40 games a year. When the people in the seats change from game to game, the atmosphere suffers.


Again, comparing any of the arenas to winnipegs is dumb. It's widely regarded as the loudest arena in hockey.

CEC is fine. People complaining about the noise are annoying.

It's loud enough. Come playoff time it's rockin' in there.

"But it's not the loudest!" argument people sound like 6 year olds.


I disagree. It's loud occasionally, rarely. That is not ok with me, and it's not rocking there playoff time. Just louder than the regular season. Mellon was rocking and not just because it was smaller, it had more energy and electricity, atmosphere, it was playoff hockey and everyone knew it. It was awesome.

Again, the crowd is weaker and the pens version of entertaining at games gets more laughable with each passing year.

I'm sorry I pay partially for atmosphere and the fun of being at a game. It's supposed to be awesome, a second to none experience. Atmosphere is subjective so whatever. But it's missing and missing bad, and that is part of what I pay for.
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Re: New Reason why CEC is not loud

Postby roland on Sat Jan 26, 2013 12:44 pm

pens2005 wrote:Come playoff time it's rockin' in there.


But the price of my tickets pretty much quadruple come playoff time. Therefore, crowd noise will be at a whisper.
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Re: New Reason why CEC is not loud

Postby MRandall25 on Sat Jan 26, 2013 12:44 pm

BDS, any arena is going to have moments of quiet. The Blue Jackets sold out Nationwide against the Red Wings (19,000+) and there were still moments where all you could hear was players and skates and sticks.

An arena is not going to consistently be loud when you want it to be. Perhaps you just have unrealistic expectations.
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Re: New Reason why CEC is not loud

Postby columbia on Sat Jan 26, 2013 12:46 pm

I don't care about the crowd noise factor, but CEC games always do seem quieter than other "hotbeds" of hockey.

:shrugs:
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Re: New Reason why CEC is not loud

Postby drnort on Sat Jan 26, 2013 12:55 pm

pens2005 wrote:
drnort wrote:It has nothing to do with the size or shape of the arena. That argument is ridiculous. If you are at the game, its clear that a large number of people simply have no interest in making noise. The arena acoustics arent making them sit there staring at the ceiling or uploading their view to facebook.

It has almost everything to do with the "location drop" that someone else mentioned. Going to the Pens game is cool. Being a Pens fan is cool. There are a significantly large number of people that are attending games right now that have no real interest in the game of hockey, but only have interest in being a Pens fan. I have nothing against those people. But the fact is, they arent into the games.

It also has nothing to do with ticket prices. It has a lot more to do with the fact that season ticket holders can sell their tickets for a profit. So fans that used to have a reason to attend every game and make for a better atmosphere are now finding any reason they can to sell their tickets, make money, and stay at home. The tickets are being bought by those that simply want to "check out a Pens game."

The same thing started happening at Mellon Arena the last 2 years. Gone are the days of fans attending 30-40 games a year. When the people in the seats change from game to game, the atmosphere suffers.


Again, comparing any of the arenas to winnipegs is dumb. It's widely regarded as the loudest arena in hockey.

CEC is fine. People complaining about the noise are annoying.

It's loud enough. Come playoff time it's rockin' in there.

"But it's not the loudest!" argument people sound like 6 year olds.


Where exactly did I compare CEC to Winnipeg?? I am not expecting our fans to be the loudest in hockey. This has more to do with the fans being engaged and being into the game. Cheering when we clear the zone on the PK, more than one section chanting Fleury's name, people actually joining in when someone starts a Lets Go Pens chant, fans standing and cheering when our players take the ice, etc. There are empty seats consistently during the game as people are busy getting food and merchandise during play.

Thats why I am not buying the "arena design" as any kind of an excuse. Its not about the noise level. Its about the fans, in general, being a part of the game. And at some point, Pens fans as a whole quit being as engaged as they USED to be. I dont care to compare our fans to anyone else. I dont care for our fans to be as loud as Washington, Philly, Montreal, or Winnipeg. I was simply providing reasons why our fans intensity at games has seemed to drop off.

I have left playoff games having the same feeling. "That did not feel like a playoff atmosphere". I dont know why some people get offended when this conversation comes up. No one is claiming that Pens fans are bad fans. Just discussing why those in the arena are unable to create an atmosphere like we have seen in Pittsburgh in the past.
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Re: New Reason why CEC is not loud

Postby canaan on Sat Jan 26, 2013 1:14 pm

ive never been much of a rah rah type at hockey games. i rarely make noise and prefer just to watch the game. aside from the high fives and cheering during goals, im probably a part of the "evil quiet fans" that this thread is denigrating. that being said, i paid for my ticket the same as you so get bent.
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Re: New Reason why CEC is not loud

Postby darkstar57 on Sat Jan 26, 2013 1:18 pm

drnort wrote:
pens2005 wrote:
drnort wrote:It has nothing to do with the size or shape of the arena. That argument is ridiculous. If you are at the game, its clear that a large number of people simply have no interest in making noise. The arena acoustics arent making them sit there staring at the ceiling or uploading their view to facebook.

It has almost everything to do with the "location drop" that someone else mentioned. Going to the Pens game is cool. Being a Pens fan is cool. There are a significantly large number of people that are attending games right now that have no real interest in the game of hockey, but only have interest in being a Pens fan. I have nothing against those people. But the fact is, they arent into the games.

It also has nothing to do with ticket prices. It has a lot more to do with the fact that season ticket holders can sell their tickets for a profit. So fans that used to have a reason to attend every game and make for a better atmosphere are now finding any reason they can to sell their tickets, make money, and stay at home. The tickets are being bought by those that simply want to "check out a Pens game."

The same thing started happening at Mellon Arena the last 2 years. Gone are the days of fans attending 30-40 games a year. When the people in the seats change from game to game, the atmosphere suffers.


Again, comparing any of the arenas to winnipegs is dumb. It's widely regarded as the loudest arena in hockey.

CEC is fine. People complaining about the noise are annoying.

It's loud enough. Come playoff time it's rockin' in there.

"But it's not the loudest!" argument people sound like 6 year olds.


Where exactly did I compare CEC to Winnipeg?? I am not expecting our fans to be the loudest in hockey. This has more to do with the fans being engaged and being into the game. Cheering when we clear the zone on the PK, more than one section chanting Fleury's name, people actually joining in when someone starts a Lets Go Pens chant, fans standing and cheering when our players take the ice, etc. There are empty seats consistently during the game as people are busy getting food and merchandise during play.

Thats why I am not buying the "arena design" as any kind of an excuse. Its not about the noise level. Its about the fans, in general, being a part of the game. And at some point, Pens fans as a whole quit being as engaged as they USED to be. I dont care to compare our fans to anyone else. I dont care for our fans to be as loud as Washington, Philly, Montreal, or Winnipeg. I was simply providing reasons why our fans intensity at games has seemed to drop off.

I have left playoff games having the same feeling. "That did not feel like a playoff atmosphere". I dont know why some people get offended when this conversation comes up. No one is claiming that Pens fans are bad fans. Just discussing why those in the arena are unable to create an atmosphere like we have seen in Pittsburgh in the past.


I brought up the arena design, and yes it does make a difference, less surface areas does contribute to sound being considered loud. Sound is in its basic sense is a wave, the more surfaces it bounces off of, the longer it maintains its level. Dont believe me, go into your bathroom and shut the door, yell at the top of your lungs. Then open the door and yell again, it wont sound as loud. the sound has a way to escape the room with the door open, where as in with the closed door, it has no where to go so it bounces of its a wall, goes and its another wall

That is the problem with the new arena designs (and this is all arenas not just the penguins) usually the first bowl has open concourse that ring them, so using the example above, it would be like going into your bathroom with the door closed, except half way up the wall there was a slit that ran horizontal on all sides. the sound waves have a way to escape and as they travel they dissipate. You wont notice this if you got to a concert because during sound check they find out where the sound waves dissipate and compensate for it using the sound board.

Do i think arena design is the sole reason no, but again, as i said, you can take the loudest crowd in mellon arena history and put them in the new arena, and they wont be as loud.

But i have no idea what i am talking about, i mean i am an architect after all, its not like i design building for a living
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Re: New Reason why CEC is not loud

Postby columbia on Sat Jan 26, 2013 1:21 pm

I don't pay attention to these things, but which arenas do not have the CEC-style open concourse?
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Re: New Reason why CEC is not loud

Postby BurghersAndDogsSports on Sat Jan 26, 2013 1:39 pm

MRandall25 wrote:BDS, any arena is going to have moments of quiet. The Blue Jackets sold out Nationwide against the Red Wings (19,000+) and there were still moments where all you could hear was players and skates and sticks.

An arena is not going to consistently be loud when you want it to be. Perhaps you just have unrealistic expectations.


Nah, I'm not talking about noise in a vacuum. It's weaker at most points than other buildings and the atmosphere overall is not good. I get the play of the team contributes but the atmosphere overall is pretty awful in general. I get your point and maybe I'm not communicating my point correctly - I'm not expecting a constant roar, but I'm expecting a lot more than what the arena, the pens and fans have going right now.
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Re: New Reason why CEC is not loud

Postby FreeCandy44 on Sat Jan 26, 2013 1:44 pm

Did it ever occur to anybody, that everyone has become quiet because weve been spoiled by success? Like the players, the fans expect to win every game now. That happens when you have a team full of talent. We as fans have become spoiled and jaded with winning and cheering now. The people who attend games have seen us win so much that it is now expected which im sure cuts in on the old attention span/cheering. Why cheer or even pay attention when you expect to win? Winnipeg lost there team and have had little success. Like the team, the fans are hungry for winning hockey. It reflected last night based on there cheering and passion. To sum it up....winning has made us sof!
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Re: New Reason why CEC is not loud

Postby DMcGrew on Sat Jan 26, 2013 2:01 pm

canaan wrote:ive never been much of a rah rah type at hockey games. i rarely make noise and prefer just to watch the game. aside from the high fives and cheering during goals, im probably a part of the "evil quiet fans" that this thread is denigrating. that being said, i paid for my ticket the same as you so get bent.


I'm the same. I don't make any noise unless we score. That's just how I am. Haters gona hate.
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Re: New Reason why CEC is not loud

Postby penny lane on Sat Jan 26, 2013 2:03 pm

^ there is a huge scent of entitlement at the games. Toss the penguins on the ice and they are suppose to win. "I'm not going to pay attention unless Sid or Evgeni scores. I've got hand held devices to moniter ... I've got kids that must get shown on the big screen. " Fewer fans who follow the action~ on ice.

The Consol is not a living room, I always cheer. BUT, I don't scream during playing action; that is silly stuff.
An no, I don't need the rangers guide for women hockey fans. :face:
There have been moments of authentic support; fans cheering for Flower during his 2010 begin season slump. To be fair, fans short on patience after last April.
Some of the in game entertainment is a bit stale~ will ferrall's bulletin, more cowbell....

For the jets Hockey was taken away from them and returned; hell yes they will be passionate.
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Re: New Reason why CEC is not loud

Postby drnort on Sat Jan 26, 2013 2:11 pm

darkstar57 wrote:Do i think arena design is the sole reason no, but again, as i said, you can take the loudest crowd in mellon arena history and put them in the new arena, and they wont be as loud.

But i have no idea what i am talking about, i mean i am an architect after all, its not like i design building for a living


I am not arguing with your premise. I understand that design will impact the crowd noise.

I am arguing that it has nothing to do with why our fans are not as energetic as in the past. Its not a "noise" issue, in my opinion.
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Re: New Reason why CEC is not loud

Postby drnort on Sat Jan 26, 2013 2:15 pm

DMcGrew wrote:
canaan wrote:ive never been much of a rah rah type at hockey games. i rarely make noise and prefer just to watch the game. aside from the high fives and cheering during goals, im probably a part of the "evil quiet fans" that this thread is denigrating. that being said, i paid for my ticket the same as you so get bent.


I'm the same. I don't make any noise unless we score. That's just how I am. Haters gona hate.


Let me make clear...I dont care what anyone else does. I dont care if you show up late, leave early, stand in line for food, or play on your phone all game. There may be others that "care". I am just discussing what I see and why I think its the way it is. I think the atmosphere and energy at Pens games has regressed.

By all means...attend the game and enjoy yourself, in whatever way you would like.
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Re: New Reason why CEC is not loud

Postby drnort on Sat Jan 26, 2013 2:18 pm

FreeCandy44 wrote:Did it ever occur to anybody, that everyone has become quiet because weve been spoiled by success? Like the players, the fans expect to win every game now. That happens when you have a team full of talent. We as fans have become spoiled and jaded with winning and cheering now. The people who attend games have seen us win so much that it is now expected which im sure cuts in on the old attention span/cheering. Why cheer or even pay attention when you expect to win? Winnipeg lost there team and have had little success. Like the team, the fans are hungry for winning hockey. It reflected last night based on there cheering and passion. To sum it up....winning has made us sof!


Yes - I think this is a huge part of it. It is hard to show energy for what many fans consider a "meaningless" regular season game. When you are in the playoffs on a regular basis and are expecting to win the Cup, it is difficult to show passion until you get to those more meaningful games. Good post.
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Re: New Reason why CEC is not loud

Postby IanMoran on Sat Jan 26, 2013 2:27 pm

Anyone else just completely put off by the LOUD goal horn and other monster truck type antics the Pens have adopted?

I normally cheer when the Pens come out on the ice for example, but instead I'm just drowned out by the obnoxious thing... Kind of takes away my excitement tbh. I think the crowd starting a lets go pens chant naturally or something makes for a better environment than what they attempt to force
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Re: New Reason why CEC is not loud

Postby JS© on Sat Jan 26, 2013 2:58 pm

I don't know if put off is the right word for it, but I wouldn't be offended it they toned down the siren/lasers/pewpewpew intro that they have adopted since moving across the street.
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Re: New Reason why CEC is not loud

Postby Bathgate on Sat Jan 26, 2013 3:02 pm

* The noise in Winnipeg is enhanced by smallness of the arena, including a low ceiling. The noisy enthusiasm is also a carryover from the exhilaration of getting their beloved Jets back. Over time, this enthusiasm will subside somewhat. But right now, it is not reasonable to expect the noise level of any other arena in the NHL to come close to that of the Jets.

* The fans in Toronto (the center of the hockey universe and the real hockey Mecca) have always had the reputation for quietly “sitting on their hands”, even when they had good teams. It was said that the fans there are so knowledgeable that they watch hockey like they would an opera. Maybe that’s happening in Pittsburgh.

* Most of the non-corporate (and presumably more enthusiastic) fans in Pittsburgh sit in the upper bowl, which is much farther from the ice than the farthest levels of the late Mellon Arena. That probably makes a difference.

* The “atmosphere” at CEC is largely defined by the “game presentation” agenda, i.e., the music and video productions. Fans can never compete with that stuff, so they don’t try. The Pens go overboard with it, as do most NHL teams. The team should conduct surveys on what type of entertainment fans would like to see during play stoppages. Personally, I think not-too-loud organ playing designed to get fans clapping and chanting would carry over to the actual play, as it used to when organist Vince Lascheid was allowed to do his thing.

* Fans should be encouraged to be enthusiastic, but not at the expense of other fans. It is grossly inconsiderate and wrong to stand continuously in front of others or to rise early in expectation of a goal. It is also inconsiderate to lean forward unnecessarily and destroy the view of fans in the next row behind.
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Re: New Reason why CEC is not loud

Postby malkinshair on Sat Jan 26, 2013 3:22 pm

CEC is full of bandwagoners...and it's impossible to cheer like a boss when you're wearing baby blue. It's a fact...just like it's impossible to look tough while using a straw.

With baby blue - no more than 60 dB
Without baby blue - probably average 130 dB

It's science.
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