Roster Deficiencies?

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Roster Deficiencies?

Postby TheHammer24 on Sat Jan 26, 2013 5:23 pm

I hate starting threads nowadays, but I'm curious what the rest of the posters (many alarmists) think on this issue.

I frequently read that the "Pens D is soft" or "we just don't have good wingers" as reasons why the Penguins lost some games. I disagree. I think we have hands down the best roster in the NHL, and one that could be better if we were able to use some of our available cap space last offseason.

If you disagree, which NHL team would you trade rosters with? By my estimation, Chicago has the second best roster in the NHL, but I'd take Sid/Geno/Neal/MAF over Kane/Toews/Hossa/Crawford even if the Hawks have some better star power on D and some better support on offense.

If you agree the Pens have the best roster in the NHL, then the team's problems (if there are any) must stem from the system or that roster's ability to execute.
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Re: Roster Deficiencies?

Postby SolidSnake on Sat Jan 26, 2013 5:30 pm

I think Boston has the best overall roster... Krejci, Bergeron, Lucic,Seguin, Peverly and Kelly are excellent role players, Not to mention the best D man in the league in Chara, Seidenberg is good too. They also have one of the better goalies in Rask. Would not be surprised to see Boston win again
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Re: Roster Deficiencies?

Postby shmenguin on Sat Jan 26, 2013 5:40 pm

There's nothing wrong with pointing out deficiencies - even if you believe your team has the best roster.

I think our roster is significantly worse than it was last year. Do I still think it's "the best"? Don't know. Maybe. But if that's the case, it's due to the fact that we have arguably the 2 best players. I wouldn't trade that for any other team. But that isn't really good evidence to say that this team is well equipped, overall. 10% of our roster is beyond reproach. And Neal appears to be awesome. Whoopie?
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Re: Roster Deficiencies?

Postby pens_CT on Sat Jan 26, 2013 6:03 pm

shmenguin wrote:I think our roster is significantly worse than it was last year.

We lost Sullivan, Asham, and, Michalek from last year and gain a healthy Crosby for the season. Not sure how that equates to a significantly worse roster.
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Re: Roster Deficiencies?

Postby pens2005 on Sat Jan 26, 2013 6:06 pm

pens_CT wrote:
shmenguin wrote:I think our roster is significantly worse than it was last year.

We lost Sullivan, Asham, and, Michalek from last year and gain a healthy Crosby for the season. Not sure how that equates to a significantly worse roster.


What about that Stahl guy? Is that how you spell it?
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Re: Roster Deficiencies?

Postby Sarcastic on Sat Jan 26, 2013 6:11 pm

I'm seeing the same problems we've had for a while. Not enough size/grit at F, not enough size and meanness on D (and another guy who can be a threat to score from the back --- who was is that recently had a chance to score from upfront.. lovejoy I think, eh), and also lacking one more dynamic winger who can score a few.

I would take all those people like vitale, jeffrey, tangradi and throw them over the board. Bring in a couple guys who are good with the elbows, so to speak. We're too soft to play against.

Defensively, what the hell did lovejoy do yesterday when he left a guy uncovered.

We can play most teams and win, but this is not a perfect lineup.
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Re: Roster Deficiencies?

Postby shmenguin on Sat Jan 26, 2013 6:14 pm

Staal became Sutter. Sullivan became Tangradi or whoever. Michalek became lovejoy or a wbs healthy scratch.

Our backup goalie is better.

Whoopie again?
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Re: Roster Deficiencies?

Postby pens_CT on Sat Jan 26, 2013 6:15 pm

pens2005 wrote:
pens_CT wrote:
shmenguin wrote:I think our roster is significantly worse than it was last year.

We lost Sullivan, Asham, and, Michalek from last year and gain a healthy Crosby for the season. Not sure how that equates to a significantly worse roster.


What about that Stahl guy? Is that how you spell it?

How quickly we forget Staal. With a healthy Sid and Geno, I think Sutter's production will offset much of the Staal loss. If Geno or Sid gets hurt, then losing Staal does impact this team.
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Re: Roster Deficiencies?

Postby largegarlic on Sat Jan 26, 2013 6:16 pm

I think it's clear we have roster deficiencies--deficiencies that are Sullivan- and Michalek-shaped. We lost a decent (not great) top-6 winger and didn't replace. We also lost a decent (not great) top-4 d-man and didn't replace him. Sutter is clearly a downgrade from Staal, but I don't really count that as a deficiency, since flubs last night aside, Sutter seems like a perfectly serviceable 3rd line center. So far, I'd say the Asham for Glass exchange is about a wash. Glass is definitely a better skater, but doesn't seem to have a shot like Asham's.

After Parise and/or Suter didn't work out, I think the plan was to see if any of the internal candidates could fill the holes. As of now, the internal candidates haven't been up to it. I don't think the Pens need to add players of that caliber, but another solid 2nd/3rd line winger and another solid 4/5 d-man would make me feel a lot better about the team. That said, I don't know that the addition of a couple good players would really help if guys keep turning the puck over like they did last night.
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Re: Roster Deficiencies?

Postby Bowser on Sat Jan 26, 2013 6:25 pm

We can pick apart the roster wanting another 25 goal scorer at wing and a top 4 defensemen to shutdown a top line but none of that matters if the style of player doesn't fit the talent already on the roster. Who thinks Lovejoy, Engelland, Orpik, Despres and Bortuzzo have the skill to make those long breakout passes? I don't and barely think Letang, Niskanen and Martin can do it.

The Penguins are too easy to play against, they stick to the perimeter on the power play and on even-strength and passive on the penalty-kill. Those are things a coach can change and demand as part of his 'system'. How many times do we see two forwards setting up in front of the net on the power play? Wouldn't that be a pretty good idea to mix up the style of play on the power play with Tangradi and Sutter on the second unit?

Malkin is planted to the bench during the penalty-kill, think teams love to see Malkin sitting for two minutes? When he has to sit for five straight minutes because the players are taking too many penalties, a good coach won't let his stars sit cold.

Line changes have been a problem and matching up lines rarely happen.

There are so many things wrong with the coaching on this team, it is a joke.
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Re: Roster Deficiencies?

Postby MRandall25 on Sat Jan 26, 2013 6:27 pm

A "good coach" wouldn't let one of his most undisciplined players to play on a PK, either.

Really, there are some legitimate knocks on Bylsma, but complaining that Malkin doesn't play the PK? Come on.
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Re: Roster Deficiencies?

Postby Bowser on Sat Jan 26, 2013 6:34 pm

MRandall25 - Have you ever seen Malkin on the PK? This is about pyschology on Malkin, if you force him to be disciplined based on his assignments, he'll do it. There's no one in the NHL that can pick the "pocket" of another player like Malkin, his quick hands lift the stick and swoops in for the puck. He doesn't need to be on each PK but putting him out there for a 30 second shift for every other PK wouldn't hurt.
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Re: Roster Deficiencies?

Postby MRandall25 on Sat Jan 26, 2013 6:46 pm

Have you seen his play this year? There's nothing he's shown that says he deserves time on the PK; whether it be his insane amount of turnovers, or his undisciplined play. It doesn't matter how well he did it in Russia. This isn't the KHL. We can't have him putting our PK in even worse positions by taking stupid penalties (like he did last night on the PP, cancelling our man-advantage and leading to a PP goal for the Jets).

You need to be disciplined on the PP, too, and he couldn't handle it.
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Re: Roster Deficiencies?

Postby Bowser on Sat Jan 26, 2013 6:51 pm

MRanall25 - I'm not absolving Malkin's responsibility to be disciplined but it isn't exactly cold war secrets that his coach has done nothing to demand the discipline or coach up his players. There's a reason why the Penguins haven't won a Cup under a fulll season of Bylsma hockey.
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Re: Roster Deficiencies?

Postby MRandall25 on Sat Jan 26, 2013 6:53 pm

Because it's the hardest trophy to win, and there hasn't been a repeat winner after the 06 lockout?
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Re: Roster Deficiencies?

Postby Bowser on Sat Jan 26, 2013 6:55 pm

And the Pens haven't even come close... let alone winning it.
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Re: Roster Deficiencies?

Postby MRandall25 on Sat Jan 26, 2013 7:03 pm

... and? So?
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Re: Roster Deficiencies?

Postby JoseCuervo on Sat Jan 26, 2013 7:23 pm

TheHammer24 wrote:I frequently read that the "Pens D is soft"


Me too. Nothing wrong with being soft as long as they can play defense. And just because someone can hit doesn't mean that they're good at defense.
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Re: Roster Deficiencies?

Postby Sarcastic on Sat Jan 26, 2013 7:26 pm

You need some size and grit to control the front of the net.
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Re: Roster Deficiencies?

Postby firepower on Sat Jan 26, 2013 7:58 pm

This team needs a top forward(for either Sid OR Geno's line). They keep trying to make bottom pair forwards play top line minutes(Kennedy, Tangradi). They could also use a big bodied D-man to help at the front of their own net.
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Re: Roster Deficiencies?

Postby sniper on Sat Jan 26, 2013 11:14 pm

Offensively there aren't many teams that can come close to matching the Penguins.

I think the pens deficiencies are:

The wingers aren't very good along the boards. The cycling game is almost completely gone and they sometimes struggle to get the puck out of the D-zone near the blue line against better teams.

Obviously a second line left winger needs to be found.

Could use another top 4 d-man. I don't think they need one right now, but at the trade deadline it would be nice to solidify the D. I've been happy with the d-men so far.

Other than that it's really just the forwards need to use their brains when making passes and they can't lolly-gag on the back check.

I wish one of Crosby, Malkin, or Neal was a right handed shot for the power play, but they should be able to make that work well enough with what they got.
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Re: Roster Deficiencies?

Postby Fire0nice228 on Sun Jan 27, 2013 8:32 am

I dont think the Pens have the best roster currently.. I'd say Boston/St Louis/LAK/Van/Chicago are more 'complete' than what the Pens have. The Pens top end talent makes up for some of that gap, and filling the holes that everyone knows are there on wing and defense puts the (paper) roster over the top (on paper). Systems, guts, heart, brains remains to be seen even if the holes are plugged.
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Re: Roster Deficiencies?

Postby KG on Sun Jan 27, 2013 10:33 am

shmenguin wrote:Staal became Sutter. Sullivan became Tangradi or whoever. Michalek became lovejoy or a wbs healthy scratch.

Our backup goalie is better.

Whoopie again?


Pretty much.....I expected Shero to change it up more especially coming off that debacle of a playoff...Apparently he and DB chalk that horrible performance up to a bad week...I think it's much deeper then that....both roster and coaching issues.
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Re: Roster Deficiencies?

Postby DelPen on Sun Jan 27, 2013 10:40 am

Niskanen has been better in the top 4 than Michalek has been. Small sample but top 4 isn't an issue. Arguing about the bottom 2 is mostly silly. It would be nice to have an upgrade but the defense is not the problem on this team. Letang has had the most mistakes and the only bad goal due to defense was the Jets goal where Engelled didn't get a stick on a pass to the crease and Lovejoy just stood there. But everything else, especially with Despres, he recovered but it was lazy plays by the forwards not back checking. Bylsma needs to play them more, the choice to keep Despres is bewildering if he's not seeing more than 10 minutes a game.

The 3rd line will be fine if Sutter has Cooke and Kennedy with him like Staal had. And Staal being on the roster now too wouldn't have prevented what happened vs the Leafs and Jets.

And I'm also not convinced Sullivan would be helping things either right now but he would be better than Tangradi, Kennedy or Jeffrey in too 6.

The problem breaks down to forcing Tangradi into the lineup and moving all the lines around. It had to be tried but even in the first two games he was moved around because he can't hack top 6 minutes which means line shifting in the 2nd and 3rd. We saw that take its toll finally vs the Leafs and the Jets game was a mess except for a PP goal and a Crosby breakaway from the drop of the puck.

Thought Tangradi could be effective on the 4th line but not with Adams out there too, no speed at all. And Adams is a much better player so Tangradi has n place on this team now.

Give Jeffrey a shot and see if he can click in the top 6. Then look to Bennett. If that fails look outside.

But they look the same as they did vs Philly last year. Same stupid mistakes and disorganized play. Until they stop being morons on the ice no one can say if this roster is better or worse than last year with certainty.
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Re: Roster Deficiencies?

Postby Guinness on Sun Jan 27, 2013 10:41 am

If I recall correctly, after Suter and Parise, there wasn't much value to be had in last summer's FA group.

If Shero makes a move, it will be from his position of strength - defenseman prospects.
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