Lovejoy to Anaheim for 5th round pick

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Re: Lovejoy to Anaheim for 5th round pick

Postby The Snapshot on Thu Feb 07, 2013 12:52 am

pens_CT wrote:This gets them one more contract under the limit of 50, and gives Shero more room to add people at the deadline or sign a college free agent in the spring (Andrej Sustr for example).


Sustr was the other guy that really stood out at the rookie camp along with Megna. I hope they continue the relationship with him.
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Re: Lovejoy to Anaheim for 5th round pick

Postby The Snapshot on Thu Feb 07, 2013 12:54 am

Bye Ben. You skate well but you are marginal at best on the ice.

Mark Eaton is as soft as they come and just terrible. He is playing out his time in the minors and probably happy to do it. Nobody wanted him for the NHL including us.
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Re: Lovejoy to Anaheim for 5th round pick

Postby mikey287 on Thu Feb 07, 2013 1:02 am

columbia wrote:
mikey287 wrote:
columbia wrote:
mikey287 wrote:
columbia wrote:It should be noted that this is why Strait was waived and not Lovejoy. Only one of them would be able to bring this sort of return.
Having said that, I'm kind of surprised that it was as high as a 5th. :shrugs:


I don't think that's necessarily the right conclusion. It might not be wrong, but I wouldn't infer it. If you reversed the situations and Lovejoy was sent down early and Strait stayed with the team. We might have gotten a 5th for Strait right now and lost (or not) Lovejoy to waivers and not batted an eyelash.

Right now, the Ducks have some injuries and a couple of defensemen with serious cases of cranial flatulence...so, they have a bit of a need right now.

A trade like this isn't a target of a player in many cases. This is an organizational depth move, adds a right-handed shot, adds a cheap contract to a team on a budget with minimal assets lost.

You generally want to make a trade worth someone's while. Offering a 7th round pick or a 6th means little to a GM/scouts. If they have a player that they have deemed worthy of selection, that they feel is a must-have, they'll make it work. Picks in the 5th through 7th round are roughly of similar value. Trading back into the draft in the 7th round is not difficult if there's a player missed that the team feels they can not lure via the invite route.

Exceptions always apply, but circumstances should be noted more than absolute value.

Note that it's a 2014 pick, not 2013. Circumstances apply. Ducks lost their original 2nd, 4th and 7th already.


They would not have gotten 5th for Strait, IMO.


I don't think it would have been outlandish to ask for a non-conditional pick for Strait at this point in the season. He'd have been more valuable if he had cleared waivers for us, but I think that we could have gotten a non-conditional pick from him at this point.

It's fairly immaterial. But Strait is on a two-way deal, he just turned 25 at the start of the year, most teams should have information on him...played at a popular college, represented the United States internationally, was a top-75 draft pick. Lovejoy, is 29 in a few days, sub-100 games of NHL experience, less popular college, no int'l experience, was not on the draft radar (still in HS, then lost a year to transferring in a key developmental year), on a one-way deal.

Advantages for Lovejoy: better skater, right-handed. Not much else.

Reverse the situations, I think we can get the same for Strait now as we did Lovejoy now. I don't believe either of them had even this much value on January 19th, as acquiring either of these players meant that you (the GM) felt that either player offered an upgrade to your current core of players.


That's a lot of ifs, perhaps, maybes and speculation.
Only one of the two was waived and - in the end - that's what we have to go by.


No more speculation than "They would not have gotten 5th for Strait, IMO." except that reasoning is supplied.
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Re: Lovejoy to Anaheim for 5th round pick

Postby mikey287 on Thu Feb 07, 2013 1:05 am

The U wrote:It's a 5th rounder in 2014...not 2013.

I think that's worth less than a 5th rounder in this upcoming draft. I don't think you can say "wow Shero got a 5th rounder for Lovejoy!"

It's probably equivalent to a 7th in this yrs draft.


Explain differences of ~50 spots in later rounds between the two drafts...

Ranking system doesn't rely on 1:1 correlation of ranking number to draft pick number. Creative teams have the equivalent of three 5th rounders (5th, 6th, 7th), non-creative teams have the equivalent of three 7th rounders. Little difference in terms of value gained and lost. Creativity, knowledge, proper evaluations, connections, etc. produce results. Having 30 fifth round picks does nothing for a team if they can't scout and develop talent properly.
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Re: Lovejoy to Anaheim for 5th round pick

Postby columbia on Thu Feb 07, 2013 1:05 am

Like I said only one of them was waived.
Which is the only fact in the matter.
Last edited by columbia on Thu Feb 07, 2013 1:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Lovejoy to Anaheim for 5th round pick

Postby marek on Thu Feb 07, 2013 1:05 am

In case nobody has been watching um the ducks are for real. I headed up the 5 last weekend to watch them spank the reigning champs... They made the kings look like a bunch of slow old men.

Lovejoy will fit in nicely within their system. Might even get some pp time.

Good luck Ben. Welcome to paradise.
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Re: Lovejoy to Anaheim for 5th round pick

Postby Mr. Colby on Thu Feb 07, 2013 1:54 am

I like Lovejoy as a 3rd-pairing defenseman... thought he got the crap end of the stick here in Pittsburgh... he was one of those guys that would make one mistake and Bylsma would bench him for 30 minutes, and you could tell he was playing timid, afraid to make mistakes.

There's quite a few guys with that problem under Bylsma... yet another reason i don't like his coaching
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Re: Lovejoy to Anaheim for 5th round pick

Postby MRandall25 on Thu Feb 07, 2013 2:04 am

Mr. Colby wrote:I like Lovejoy as a 3rd-pairing defenseman... thought he got the crap end of the stick here in Pittsburgh... he was one of those guys that would make one mistake and Bylsma would bench him for 30 minutes, and you could tell he was playing timid, afraid to make mistakes.

There's quite a few guys with that problem under Bylsma... yet another reason i don't like his coaching


Perhaps those guys should, if you'll excuse my French, "man the **** up"
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Re: Lovejoy to Anaheim for 5th round pick

Postby Dan H on Thu Feb 07, 2013 2:10 am

For reference, judging by a quick glance at HockeyDB's draft stats from 10-15 years ago:

About 30% of 5th round picks ever play 1 game in the NHL.
About 15% of 5th round picks accrue at least 100 NHL games.

So, basically, there's roughly a 70% chance the Ducks "win" this trade in the long run, a 15% chance it's a push, and a 15% chance the Pens win it. But if the Pens draft well and hit that last 15%, they could "win" by a lot; a handful of really good players have come out of the later rounds of the draft. The Ducks can only possibly "win" by one solid 7th defenseman, unless Lovejoy really exceeds expectations there.

My initial thought was that Lovejoy's value is more than a 5th rounder, but after looking at these I think it's probably pretty fair for him.
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Re: Lovejoy to Anaheim for 5th round pick

Postby Godric on Thu Feb 07, 2013 3:00 am

farnham16 wrote:Good luck to him. Solid person. Below average hockey player.


Actually I'd bet Ben Lovejoy is far above being an "average hockey player" :lol:

average players don't even make to college/jrs and the AHL :lol: :P
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Re: Lovejoy to Anaheim for 5th round pick

Postby lifetimefan on Thu Feb 07, 2013 7:17 am

canaan wrote:I think a 5th is fmv for fringe defense


Considering he was an undrafted free agent, the Pens did a nice job of development of this asset.
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Re: Lovejoy to Anaheim for 5th round pick

Postby DelPen on Thu Feb 07, 2013 8:17 am

Fun fact, Lovejoy is older than Reese. Reese is only up for as long as he does not need to go through waivers to be sent back down.

Good depth trade. If Tangradi can get the same move him too.
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Re: Lovejoy to Anaheim for 5th round pick

Postby Beveridge on Thu Feb 07, 2013 8:33 am

Obviously, Bylsma drunk dialed Shero saying I'm going to start Lovejoy over Despres tomorrow, try and stop me.

Shero then went out and found a 5th round pick for lovejoy to stick it to the man.
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Re: Lovejoy to Anaheim for 5th round pick

Postby shafnutz05 on Thu Feb 07, 2013 9:00 am

Godspeed
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Re: Lovejoy to Anaheim for 5th round pick

Postby no name on Thu Feb 07, 2013 9:17 am

Good luck Benny, i really liked him on the reality Pens shows, seemed like a really good guy. Hope he gets a good shot to stay with that team. His time here just ran out.

Looks like Despres is here to stay, all the trade rumors surrounding him can stop or at least slow down.
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Re: Lovejoy to Anaheim for 5th round pick

Postby Shakes on Thu Feb 07, 2013 9:38 am

marek wrote:In case nobody has been watching um the ducks are for real. I headed up the 5 last weekend to watch them spank the reigning champs... They made the kings look like a bunch of slow old men.

Lovejoy will fit in nicely within their system. Might even get some pp time.

Good luck Ben. Welcome to paradise.


I can't imagine he'll see much time, barring a string of injuries. They're pretty deep on D. He's probably like #8 or #9?
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Re: Lovejoy to Anaheim for 5th round pick

Postby mikey287 on Thu Feb 07, 2013 9:48 am

Shakes wrote:
marek wrote:In case nobody has been watching um the ducks are for real. I headed up the 5 last weekend to watch them spank the reigning champs... They made the kings look like a bunch of slow old men.

Lovejoy will fit in nicely within their system. Might even get some pp time.

Good luck Ben. Welcome to paradise.


I can't imagine he'll see much time, barring a string of injuries. They're pretty deep on D. He's probably like #8 or #9?


I expect he'll play their next game. They aren't deep on D. Vatanen has been overwhelmed, Jordan Hendry sucks, Nate Guenin, well, we know he sucks...Fowler is hurt and Lydman has the flu I think...so, if he doesn't dress, I'd be surprised. And if he's not a #6, or at least a #7 going forward I'd be even more surprised...
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Re: Lovejoy to Anaheim for 5th round pick

Postby Kovy27 on Thu Feb 07, 2013 9:49 am

They didn't get Ryan or Perry? FIRE EVERYONE!
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Re: Lovejoy to Anaheim for 5th round pick

Postby penny lane on Thu Feb 07, 2013 9:56 am

ben lovejoy ‏@RevLovejoy6
People of Pittsburgh, We loved everything about our time here. You treated my wife & me as true Yinzers & we will miss it. Thank you! Ben


all the best ! Buy your coach some ice cream for playing minutes! ;)
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Re: Lovejoy to Anaheim for 5th round pick

Postby SolidSnake on Thu Feb 07, 2013 9:58 am

penny lane wrote:
ben lovejoy ‏@RevLovejoy6
People of Pittsburgh, We loved everything about our time here. You treated my wife & me as true Yinzers & we will miss it. Thank you! Ben


all the best ! Buy your coach some ice cream for playing minutes! ;)

:thumb:
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Re: Lovejoy to Anaheim for 5th round pick

Postby brwi on Thu Feb 07, 2013 10:06 am

Good luck in Anaheim, Ben Lovejoy, and a 2014 5th rounder is not a bad return for a guy who was going to be #7 or #8 on the Pens' depth chart and not going to clear waivers either. He's not as bad as some here think, but Pens have younger and better guys that need to be out there getting playing time at this point.

Lovejoy was in the early running for this year's Official Whipping Boy but he's now eliminated for that. Looks like Tangradi has a clear shot at the belt.
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Re: Lovejoy to Anaheim for 5th round pick

Postby canaan on Thu Feb 07, 2013 10:07 am

Kovy27 wrote:They didn't get Ryan or Perry? FIRE EVERYONE!

good one.
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Re: Lovejoy to Anaheim for 5th round pick

Postby Gaucho on Thu Feb 07, 2013 10:12 am

Good luck, good Reverend from Canaan.
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Re: Lovejoy to Anaheim for 5th round pick

Postby Penspal on Thu Feb 07, 2013 10:18 am

For me, its always a bit of a downer to see a player work his way up from the farm. From the interviews and 24-7 show, it seemed he was a genuine "good human". Ben knew what his role was and didn't complain. His age and lack of playing time does leave a little room for potential "improvement", and since he's gone to the West, I wish him the very best and that he reaches his potential.

Dylan Reese could prove to be useful, but the Pens could also lose him on waivers if his stay is not permanent. The plus to that is more time for Morrow/Sammy down on the farm.
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Re: Lovejoy to Anaheim for 5th round pick

Postby JeffDFD on Thu Feb 07, 2013 10:18 am

So why did we recall Dylan Reese? Do we need to scratch 3 people every night? Wonder who will be sitting now.
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