Boychuk vs Jeffrey: who should play

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Re: Tangradi vs Boychuk : There can only be one

Postby Nizzy on Fri Feb 08, 2013 10:58 am

Steve Dave wrote:I just wanted some discussion on this topic from knowledgable posters in here. I think Tangradi can be at least a serviceable 3rd/4th liner in this league. I also like Boychuk's speed and play thus far. I do think Shero will find a more permanent solution for the top 6 however.


If this were true, he would've already proven it. I'm a huge ET supporter, and if there's one thing he's already shown is that he's completely worthless on the 4th line. He produces in the AHL top 6, so its fair to say he probably needs to be around the net, in the top 6 of the NHL. To be fair, since he simply might not be that good enough, a 3rd line role could be possible.

The final fact that I always bring up....he's not had consistent anything since being in the NHL. People want to take about the 48 pro games...how many of those games were 5-6 total shifts a night playing with Craig Adams? What the heck can a below-average speed Power Forward do with 5 shifts a night with Craig Adams? This guy needs a Malkin or Sutter centerman, a good 13-14 minutes a night, banging on the forecheck and around the crease.

I'm sorry but he had 2 games at the start of the year. That's it, and its simply not enough. I'm over it. I admit he doesn't fit the system. Bylsma never coached Ryan Malone, so maybe Malone would've sucked under Bylsma as well. Just Trade Tangradi for Kulemin already to get Malkin his guy and lets call it a day. I won't even be mad anymore if ET scores 20 next year. Just get him out of this situation.
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Re: Tangradi vs Boychuk : There can only be one

Postby Defence21 on Fri Feb 08, 2013 10:58 am

Steve Dave wrote:
Beveridge wrote:You just made a great argument on why stats don't matter with the mvp/50 goal scorer and a 40 goal scorer on that line

Boychuk has had more quality chances in 4 games than Tangradi has had in 40+ he's been with the pens. Are they going in, no? But on that line, he has done more.

I honestly would like to see him with Sid a few games. I think he would work better like Steve Sullivan seemed to work better with Sid for a few games than when he was paired with Neal and Malkin.


People get to caught up on the stat line with this team. Last time I checked, we don't have a ton of issues getting goals. We need players to do their job and sometimes that job isn't scoring.


I agree, but the argument against Tangradi was he wasn't producing numbers. Do you think that Boychuk's hits are going to wear down opposing teams D in a 7 game series? At least Tangradi can bring that element. Cooke is a shell of his former self, Rupp was let go, Kunitz is getting older and may not be able to bring the same intensity he has in previous playoffs. You are right, the Pens don't have a problem scoring goals, but as we saw last year, players like Sullivan get pushed around come playoffs. I think both Tangradi and Boychuk would do better with Crosby.

The argument, at least from what I saw, never revolved specifically around numbers -- and if it did, well, it was a bad argument. Fact is, Tangradi is slow, lacks physicality, and doesn't think the game at an overly high level. That was fine at the lower levels of hockey, but in the NHL -- and especially on an elite scoring line -- it won't cut it. Boychuk may be small, but he's tenacious. He' battles for the puck, and while he may lose the battle more often than he wins, he at least battles, which opens up space and wears down the opponent. He also has a knack for getting the puck to Malkin and Neal without fail, and without fault. He knows his limitations and doesn't try to do too much. To date, he is far and away the best fit for the line, but like others, I believe an external option will be brought in for the playoffs.
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Re: Tangradi vs Boychuk : There can only be one

Postby pcm on Fri Feb 08, 2013 11:30 am

To date, he is far and away the best fit for the line, but like others, I believe an external option will be brought in for the playoffs.


I don't agree with this. Jeffrey at least, in his 2 game tryout (1 of which was the Islanders game where the team layed an egg), contributed to a goal by driving to the net and screening the goalie. He also provided Malkin with defensive and faceoff support. Everyone thought he played great supporting Malkin/Neal.

After 5 games, that line has yet to score with Boychuk on it. Don't get me wrong, he certainly looks good out there. He battles and gets to open ice well. But he plays more like the shooter on a line, which Malkin and Neal definitely don't need. Remember, Malkin and Neal played much better with Kunitz on their line than with Sullivan.

To say he's the best fit by far is definitely a stretch. If the team wasn't on a giant crushing winning streak, I'd think he'd already be shifted around. But the team is playing like giants, so Boychuk is the lucky one for now.
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Re: Tangradi vs Boychuk : There can only be one

Postby joopen on Fri Feb 08, 2013 11:35 am

Dustin Jeffrey is only marginally better than Eric Tangradi. Both are fringe NHLers and 3rd/4th liners at best. Please stop with the Dustin Jeffrey man-love.
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Re: Tangradi vs Boychuk : There can only be one

Postby Rylan on Fri Feb 08, 2013 11:36 am

So far Boychuk's contributions haven't been on the score sheet, but that doesn't mean there haven't been numerous opportunities for the line to score. While I like DJ, I think his best bet would be on a team not named Pittsburgh. He would probably do well in Florida or some other currently downtrodden team where he can get the ice time to show off any abilities he may have.
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Re: Tangradi vs Boychuk : There can only be one

Postby RisslingsMissingTeeth on Fri Feb 08, 2013 11:37 am

Since Boychuk came in the Pens have been not only winning, but looking great doing so. This isn't because of Boychuk necessarily, but it is extremely clear that the energy level of the 2nd line has tripled. We are running 4 lines a blazin and it is taking its toll.

I can't believe this is actually a discussion. Tangradi is exceedingly underqualified to be in the NHL. I was watching Columbus the other night and thinking about how much better Letestu looks and I used to think he wasn't NHL caliber. Never realized just how much better he is than ET. I just want the Pens to release Eric so we can stop having these discussions.
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Re: Tangradi vs Boychuk : There can only be one

Postby PensHckyFan79 on Fri Feb 08, 2013 11:53 am

I agree with others that Boychuk seems to be fitting and playing better with Malkin and Neal, but I would have to disagree with the line producing. Malkin and Neal have produced on the PP, I haven't seen the line produce numbers even strength. They have produced more chances which is what I will have to go by, although Tangradi did help generate the lone goal in the Sens game with his center drive providing Malkin with the passing lane for Neal's one timer, and that was a big goal in that game.

I would have to give the edge to Boychuk though just because he does seem to gel better on that line and they are producing chances that will start to lead to goals. Tangradi can play in the NHL I just dont think it will be with the Pens.
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Re: Tangradi vs Boychuk : There can only be one

Postby slappybrown on Fri Feb 08, 2013 11:57 am

Steve Dave wrote:
Beveridge wrote:You just made a great argument on why stats don't matter with the mvp/50 goal scorer and a 40 goal scorer on that line

Boychuk has had more quality chances in 4 games than Tangradi has had in 40+ he's been with the pens. Are they going in, no? But on that line, he has done more.

I honestly would like to see him with Sid a few games. I think he would work better like Steve Sullivan seemed to work better with Sid for a few games than when he was paired with Neal and Malkin.


People get to caught up on the stat line with this team. Last time I checked, we don't have a ton of issues getting goals. We need players to do their job and sometimes that job isn't scoring.


I agree, but the argument against Tangradi was he wasn't producing numbers. Do you think that Boychuk's hits are going to wear down opposing teams D in a 7 game series? At least Tangradi can bring that element. Cooke is a shell of his former self, Rupp was let go, Kunitz is getting older and may not be able to bring the same intensity he has in previous playoffs. You are right, the Pens don't have a problem scoring goals, but as we saw last year, players like Sullivan get pushed around come playoffs. I think both Tangradi and Boychuk would do better with Crosby.

The argument against Tangraid is not only that he "wasn't producing numbers" but also that he was otherwise invisible and/or poor outside of goals and assists. He was a passenger at best and an impediment at worst. Boychuck is hardly setting the world on fire, but at least he is noticeable in a postive sense now and again.
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Re: Tangradi vs Boychuk : There can only be one

Postby SoupOrSam on Fri Feb 08, 2013 12:08 pm

One thing I surely like about Boychuk is he does play a pretty good two-way game. He has some pretty decent hockey smarts about it too... has tried to read the play and has on a couple of occasions broken up the play and moved the puck to Malkin or Neal. He will start scoring. No doubt. Kid looks instinctively good. Can't teach that. The stats will come.
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Re: Tangradi vs Boychuk : There can only be one

Postby DelPen on Fri Feb 08, 2013 12:09 pm

Tangradi is incapable of playing in a top 6 role due to endurance. he slowed to a halt in the 3rd period and screwed up the lines considerably. Then if you play him on the 4th the rest of the lineup suffered.

As a 13th forward he's not bad, neither is Jeffrey. You could play them anywhere, Jeffrey more though because he's a natural center.

But Boychuk has had more positive plays as far as hitting and forcing turnovers than either Jeffrey or Tangardi. I don't know if Boychuk is the answer but Jeffrey and Tangradi have been around Malkin at practice and training camps for the last 4+ years, Boychuk has been here for about a week. Give it at least another week to let him learn what Malkin does and I think we are starting to see some of that.
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Re: Tangradi vs Boychuk : There can only be one

Postby Malkamaniac on Fri Feb 08, 2013 12:10 pm

Boychuk has done more with his speed than Tangradi did with his size.

Boychuk made a few sweet passes last night one to James Neal on the rush specifically that lead to a clean shot. Tangradi didn't do that.
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Re: Tangradi vs Boychuk : There can only be one

Postby tfrizz on Fri Feb 08, 2013 12:42 pm

slappybrown wrote:
Steve Dave wrote:
Beveridge wrote:You just made a great argument on why stats don't matter with the mvp/50 goal scorer and a 40 goal scorer on that line

Boychuk has had more quality chances in 4 games than Tangradi has had in 40+ he's been with the pens. Are they going in, no? But on that line, he has done more.

I honestly would like to see him with Sid a few games. I think he would work better like Steve Sullivan seemed to work better with Sid for a few games than when he was paired with Neal and Malkin.


People get to caught up on the stat line with this team. Last time I checked, we don't have a ton of issues getting goals. We need players to do their job and sometimes that job isn't scoring.


I agree, but the argument against Tangradi was he wasn't producing numbers. Do you think that Boychuk's hits are going to wear down opposing teams D in a 7 game series? At least Tangradi can bring that element. Cooke is a shell of his former self, Rupp was let go, Kunitz is getting older and may not be able to bring the same intensity he has in previous playoffs. You are right, the Pens don't have a problem scoring goals, but as we saw last year, players like Sullivan get pushed around come playoffs. I think both Tangradi and Boychuk would do better with Crosby.

The argument against Tangraid is not only that he "wasn't producing numbers" but also that he was otherwise invisible and/or poor outside of goals and assists. He was a passenger at best and an impediment at worst. Boychuck is hardly setting the world on fire, but at least he is noticeable in a postive sense now and again.


Tangradi wasn't completely invisible. His play in the defensive zone was actually pretty good - he covered guys when needed and made simple plays to get the puck out of the zone.

As I've said before, I really don't think hockey smarts is an issue with him. He knows where to go and what to do... but he struggles to execute.
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Re: Tangradi vs Boychuk : There can only be one

Postby tfrizz on Fri Feb 08, 2013 12:45 pm

Malkamaniac wrote:Boychuk has done more with his speed than Tangradi did with his size.

Boychuk made a few sweet passes last night one to James Neal on the rush specifically that lead to a clean shot. Tangradi didn't do that.


Catch 22: Tangradi never had the puck to be able to make/attempt passes :pop:
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Re: Tangradi vs Boychuk : There can only be one

Postby The Snapshot on Fri Feb 08, 2013 12:52 pm

Steve Dave wrote:Do you think that Boychuk's hits are going to wear down opposing teams D in a 7 game series? At least Tangradi can bring that element. ....You are right, the Pens don't have a problem scoring goals, but as we saw last year, players like Sullivan get pushed around come playoffs. I think both Tangradi and Boychuk would do better with Crosby.


My goodness Steve Dave. What exactly have you seen from Tangradi that makes you think he can wear the other team down in a 7 game series. He has never thrown one significant check in any game I have seen. He cannot catch at least 2/3 of the skaters in the NHL because he has ZERO agility on his skates. He has produced nothing in front of the net.

Boychuk is 1000% more involved in every phase of the game than Tangradi, and do not think it is a coincidence that the top two lines are rolling with his addition there. He has created several great opportunities for himself in limited even strength play.

Why is this still a discussion?
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Re: Tangradi vs Boychuk : There can only be one

Postby Steve Dave on Fri Feb 08, 2013 2:16 pm

The Snapshot wrote:
Steve Dave wrote:Do you think that Boychuk's hits are going to wear down opposing teams D in a 7 game series? At least Tangradi can bring that element. ....You are right, the Pens don't have a problem scoring goals, but as we saw last year, players like Sullivan get pushed around come playoffs. I think both Tangradi and Boychuk would do better with Crosby.


My goodness Steve Dave. What exactly have you seen from Tangradi that makes you think he can wear the other team down in a 7 game series. He has never thrown one significant check in any game I have seen. He cannot catch at least 2/3 of the skaters in the NHL because he has ZERO agility on his skates. He has produced nothing in front of the net.

Boychuk is 1000% more involved in every phase of the game than Tangradi, and do not think it is a coincidence that the top two lines are rolling with his addition there. He has created several great opportunities for himself in limited even strength play.

Why is this still a discussion?


Remember the Islander game where he was hitting Islanders left and right. I believe he concussed one of their players with a hit and that is why Gillies assaulted him. Maybe he never got back to that form but I am still holding out hope he does.
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Re: Tangradi vs Boychuk : There can only be one

Postby Idoit40fans on Fri Feb 08, 2013 2:20 pm

He was never at the form you are imagining. He was at his best when he blended in with the rest of the suck that was the playoffs last year.
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Re: Tangradi vs Boychuk : There can only be one

Postby RisslingsMissingTeeth on Fri Feb 08, 2013 2:24 pm

Steve Dave wrote:
Remember the Islander game where he was hitting Islanders left and right. I believe he concussed one of their players with a hit and that is why Gillies assaulted him. Maybe he never got back to that form but I am still holding out hope he does.


I was under the impression that Gillies assaulted him 1) because ET was on the ice with some toughs and 2) Gillies, mistakenly, thought that a big immovable piece of sludge must be on the ice to be a goon since he clearly didn't have a rep as a scorer or skater and 3)Gillies is a meat head.
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Re: Tangradi vs Boychuk : There can only be one

Postby slappybrown on Fri Feb 08, 2013 2:38 pm

These last two posts are excellent.
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Re: Tangradi vs Boychuk : There can only be one

Postby Tico Rick on Fri Feb 08, 2013 3:00 pm

The Tangradites are not amused.
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Re: Tangradi vs Boychuk : There can only be one

Postby Kaizer on Fri Feb 08, 2013 3:10 pm

Remember the Islander game where he was hitting Islanders left and right. I believe he concussed one of their players with a hit and that is why Gillies assaulted him. Maybe he never got back to that form but I am still holding out hope he does.


i remember Tangradi getting a concussion in that game, and so far thats the only memory i have of him doing anything. he sucks. if the "big dog gotta eat", he would have starved to death 3 years ago. boychuk could be the next Marty Straka if he develops more. no contest.
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Re: Tangradi vs Boychuk : There can only be one

Postby The Snapshot on Fri Feb 08, 2013 3:17 pm

Kaizer wrote:
Remember the Islander game where he was hitting Islanders left and right. I believe he concussed one of their players with a hit and that is why Gillies assaulted him. Maybe he never got back to that form but I am still holding out hope he does.


i remember Tangradi getting a concussion in that game, and so far thats the only memory i have of him doing anything. he sucks. if the "big dog gotta eat", he would have starved to death 3 years ago.


He soft. That was a real microcosym of his character. He is trying to "act like" a power forward, but it just really isn't even his persona. He is not looking to dominate in any way. He's just not that guy in his persona, to say nothing of his physical skills.
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Re: Tangradi vs Boychuk : There can only be one

Postby Pitt87 on Fri Feb 08, 2013 3:29 pm

I choose Boychuk, because of all the 'other stuff' omitted in the stat lines; giveaways, takeaways, hits, total shots (missed + shots). All things he has done better than Tangradi.
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Re: Tangradi vs Boychuk : There can only be one

Postby largegarlic on Fri Feb 08, 2013 3:53 pm

Tico Rick wrote:The Tangradites are not amused.


I think the Tangradites are an endangered species at this point. Maybe we should put a moratorium on attacking them lest the world be deprived of this strange beast.
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Re: Tangradi vs Boychuk : There can only be one

Postby X-JR on Fri Feb 08, 2013 4:03 pm

the biggest issue with Tangradi is his skating. He has the slowest first three strides since Gil. He is usually behind the play, therefore making him out of position early on during rushes to either end. Bad hands, bad feet, marginal player. If I was a GM, I wouldn't want him for any reason other than as an occassional call up. Boychuk has twice the hockey skils.
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Re: Tangradi vs Boychuk : There can only be one

Postby DontToewsMeBro on Fri Feb 08, 2013 4:11 pm

If you watch the highlights of the game on the Pens' website, you clearly see a few of the scoring chances Boychuk was actively involved in. Not just "there", but driving the net, creating space, give and gos with Malkin, etc. Not his fault Malkin decided to spin in a circle and throw an errant backhand (what the heck was that, anyway?!) across the goal crease. I agree that he does need to score soon though. For how good that line has looked at times it's surprising they aren't producing anything.
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