Game 13 vs NJ Devils - Thoughts from the morning after

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Re: Game 13 vs NJ Devils - Thoughts from the morning after

Postby penmyst on Mon Feb 11, 2013 11:11 pm

sniper wrote:I think when you play teams like the Devils you have to beat them at their own game. Stay patient and don't give them any easy scoring chances. Make them earn everything they get. Look at the goals they scored. Saturday 2 on the power play after killing off the first 6 or 7 and one because Orpik was standing out by the blue line and left his man alone. Sunday two 2 on 1 chances and another power play goal. The power play goals will happen now and then, but had they stayed more disciplined saturday and not given up 2 on 1's yesterday the Devils only score 1 goal each game. 1 total if Orpik stays with his man Saturday.


To be fair to the Pens, NJ does a good job of forcing those errors.

I like to think of errors in two categories: forced and unforced (like tennis). Examples- Unforced: Malkin throwing a behind the back blind pass cross ice high in the offensive zone, resulting in a turnover and odd-man rush against. Forced: 2 guys hounding Martin into his own corner, on his backhand and he turns it over up the boards.

sniper wrote:Playing against the Devils this weekend reminded me of playing against Montreal a couple years ago in the playoffs. The Pens are a better team than the Devils and were far better than the Canadiens. They just play stupid against them. Limit the mistakes, keep the third forward high and force them to earn their goals. That's what the Flyers did against Montreal the year they beat us and Washington. Montreal couldn't score against Philly. When they were forced to earn their goals they couldn't do it. NJ's offense is 3 players. Clarkson, Kovalchuk, and Elias. Elias isn't getting any younger. The rest of them are Pascal Dupuis. This isn't a team capable of scoring a large amount of goals. The skill level simply isn't there. The penguins gave them their chances.


Yes, but again it comes from forced errors. I think you are on the right track somewhat, just at the wrong exit. Where the problems seem to come is that these teams play a style intended to thwart the Pens (forcing the Pens to the perimeter in the offensive zone, taking away cross-ice passes from Malkin/Crosby who seemingly will NOT stop trying them, pushing aggressive forechecks at the Pens D when the Pens F start drifting up ice trying to "create", etc). The Pens either by coaches or players, often WILL NOT make adjustment. So if things don't go well right off... or they can't grab goals via skill.... things can get out of hand quickly.

sniper wrote:If I was a coach I'd try weird things against teams like the Devils. I'd tell Crosby or Malkin to stay at the offensive blue line when NJ got the puck just to see what they would do. Would they leave one D man back to watch whichever one was there and play 4 on 4 in the offensive zone and take the chance of the Penguins getting the puck and getting it to Crosby or Malkin against their lone D man? Would they be too worried about getting beat and leave both D men back and negate pretty much any offensive attack they have? I'd try it just to see how they react. If they take 4 on 4 and leave me 1 on 1 with my superstar against their D man I'll take it all day.


I don't know that it needs to get weird. I'd like to see a simple adjustment in the offensive zone: make it your intentional efforts to plant guys in front of the net, or to get guys slicing TO the net. Force the defenders to HAVE to account for action in their slot, so as to alleviate pressure from the perimeter. This opens up more breathing room along the boards, and if you see a forest of sticks in the way of your cross ice pass? Pass it to the wide-open point man (who must be wide open if all the defenders are collapsing the box) for a shot into that forest. These are tactical adjustments intended to use a teams' chosen tactic's strengths against itself. Ala a boxer that is keeping his hands high to protect his face---> means you should be punching his body until he decides to no longer cheat protecting his face.

As for neutral zone issues, I think those are resolved when the Pens play more disciplined in their breakouts. Which, remarkably is when they solve most of their own-zone/neutral-zone problems with ALL teams.
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Re: Game 13 vs NJ Devils - Thoughts from the morning after

Postby sniper on Mon Feb 11, 2013 11:52 pm

penmyst wrote:
To be fair to the Pens, NJ does a good job of forcing those errors.

I like to think of errors in two categories: forced and unforced (like tennis). Examples- Unforced: Malkin throwing a behind the back blind pass cross ice high in the offensive zone, resulting in a turnover and odd-man rush against. Forced: 2 guys hounding Martin into his own corner, on his backhand and he turns it over up the boards.


If the 3rd forward stays high and covers for Martin it's a 2 on 2 regardless of any forcing NJ does.


penmyst wrote:Yes, but again it comes from forced errors. I think you are on the right track somewhat, just at the wrong exit. Where the problems seem to come is that these teams play a style intended to thwart the Pens (forcing the Pens to the perimeter in the offensive zone, taking away cross-ice passes from Malkin/Crosby who seemingly will NOT stop trying them, pushing aggressive forechecks at the Pens D when the Pens F start drifting up ice trying to "create", etc). The Pens either by coaches or players, often WILL NOT make adjustment. So if things don't go well right off... or they can't grab goals via skill.... things can get out of hand quickly.


Ok so they force the Pens to the outside. That doesn't mean the Penguins have to give them the puck and an odd man rush. This is where patience is needed. Beat them at their own game. Or use my earlier suggestion and don't let them force you to the outside. Make them worry to death about Crosby and Malkin by forcing them to play those two one on one or give up all their offensive pressure and bring 2 d-men back. The Devils players individually aren't better than the Penguins. They simply are playing a better team game. Force them to play an individual game. Stretch them out. Make them worried about defense even when they have the puck in your offensive zone. Take their entire game plan away from them.


penmyst wrote:I don't know that it needs to get weird. I'd like to see a simple adjustment in the offensive zone: make it your intentional efforts to plant guys in front of the net, or to get guys slicing TO the net. Force the defenders to HAVE to account for action in their slot, so as to alleviate pressure from the perimeter. This opens up more breathing room along the boards, and if you see a forest of sticks in the way of your cross ice pass? Pass it to the wide-open point man (who must be wide open if all the defenders are collapsing the box) for a shot into that forest. These are tactical adjustments intended to use a teams' chosen tactic's strengths against itself. Ala a boxer that is keeping his hands high to protect his face---> means you should be punching his body until he decides to no longer cheat protecting his face.

As for neutral zone issues, I think those are resolved when the Pens play more disciplined in their breakouts. Which, remarkably is when they solve most of their own-zone/neutral-zone problems with ALL teams.


It seems to me this is somewhat the adjustment they made against Montreal. The Penguins had all kinds of shots against Montreal. Montreal let them have all the point shots they wanted. They either got blocked or hit the goalie. It resulted in them getting frustrated and forcing plays that weren't there, which in turn resulted in Montreal getting odd man rushes.
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Re: Game 13 vs NJ Devils - Thoughts from the morning after

Postby pens_srq on Tue Feb 12, 2013 12:28 am

The Pens needed to take the puck to the net in this game. That almost never happened. Much like the Montreal playoff series, most shots came from the perimeter and when someone did take the puck to the net, the rebound was quickly cleared by Devils clogging the ice in front of their net.
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Re: Game 13 vs NJ Devils - Thoughts from the morning after

Postby Jamie on Tue Feb 12, 2013 2:17 am

I was at the game last night and Despres stuck out in a bad way. He was brutal in the defensive zone. He held on to the puck far to long before making a play and turned it over-frequently. He held it until he was engaged by a Devil, then coughed it up with a bad pass or was simply overpowered for possession. I like Despres and think he is going to good in the long run, but he needs to learn he does not have the same amount of time to make plays in the NHL opposed to the AHL.
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Re: Game 13 vs NJ Devils - Thoughts from the morning after

Postby k0la on Tue Feb 12, 2013 3:29 am

Malkin seems to be struggling a bit, like he has done fromt ime to time before. The difference now compared to then is that he still has Neal to go to. Neal seems to be finishing what he gets, so Malkin's points from assists are still coming.

They're doing quite well for a team that doesn't seem to be going on max yet, but you need your superstars if your gonna beat someone playing their system to perfection like Devils did.
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Re: Game 13 vs NJ Devils - Thoughts from the morning after

Postby Luckybreak on Tue Feb 12, 2013 6:57 am

-Adjustments in back to back games are vital. HCDB keeps running head first into 'brick wall' systems, I don't want to see it again in the playoffs. I don't care how well the Devils played their game, 'our game' is growing increasingly predictable and beatable.
-Don't understand the Despres criticism, I'm pretty sure Letang would make anyone look better and feel more confident than Reese.
-Boychuck continues to make surprisingly creative plays whilst Geno makes surprisingly stupid ones. Leave the stop-gap alone.
-Vitale>Jeffrey on the 4th. Sit the 'invisable tiger' and play Jeffrey on the 3rd, in fact I'd even give ET a whirl there!
-I still love Bort/Engo as 5/6, almost a shame to break it up when those scrubs Letang and Nisky get healthy... Despite his vastly improved play and necessity for these playoffs, I still see Martin as odd man out next season
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Re: Game 13 vs NJ Devils - Thoughts from the morning after

Postby joopen on Tue Feb 12, 2013 8:14 am

Luckybreak wrote:-Adjustments in back to back games are vital. HCDB keeps running head first into 'brick wall' systems, I don't want to see it again in the playoffs. I don't care how well the Devils played their game, 'our game' is growing increasingly predictable and beatable.
-Don't understand the Despres criticism, I'm pretty sure Letang would make anyone look better and feel more confident than Reese.
-Boychuck continues to make surprisingly creative plays whilst Geno makes surprisingly stupid ones. Leave the stop-gap alone.
-Vitale>Jeffrey on the 4th. Sit the 'invisable tiger' and play Jeffrey on the 3rd, in fact I'd even give ET a whirl there!
-I still love Bort/Engo as 5/6, almost a shame to break it up when those scrubs Letang and Nisky get healthy... Despite his vastly improved play and necessity for these playoffs, I still see Martin as odd man out next season

$5 million and 3 years says you are wrong. After next year Orpik, Letang, Niskanen, and Engelland all are UFA. That's where decisions are made.
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Re: Game 13 vs NJ Devils - Thoughts from the morning after

Postby Luckybreak on Tue Feb 12, 2013 8:56 am

joopen wrote:
Luckybreak wrote:-Adjustments in back to back games are vital. HCDB keeps running head first into 'brick wall' systems, I don't want to see it again in the playoffs. I don't care how well the Devils played their game, 'our game' is growing increasingly predictable and beatable.
-Don't understand the Despres criticism, I'm pretty sure Letang would make anyone look better and feel more confident than Reese.
-Boychuck continues to make surprisingly creative plays whilst Geno makes surprisingly stupid ones. Leave the stop-gap alone.
-Vitale>Jeffrey on the 4th. Sit the 'invisable tiger' and play Jeffrey on the 3rd, in fact I'd even give ET a whirl there!
-I still love Bort/Engo as 5/6, almost a shame to break it up when those scrubs Letang and Nisky get healthy... Despite his vastly improved play and necessity for these playoffs, I still see Martin as odd man out next season

$5 million and 3 years says you are wrong. After next year Orpik, Letang, Niskanen, and Engelland all are UFA. That's where decisions are made.


The 5mil 3yr contract is precisely why I suggest he is odd man out. Letang is the priority and will seek a significant pay raise, Orpik is the 'conscience' of the team, Nisky continues to play beyond anyones expectations and Despres could develop into a top 2 stud. Martin's contract limits any negotiations and futher contributes to the log-jam of prospects, some more of whom will be looking for ice time.
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Re: Game 13 vs NJ Devils - Thoughts from the morning after

Postby Wyopen on Tue Feb 12, 2013 9:32 am

It's pretty bad when Clarkson has more goals than Sid and Evgeni combined.
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Re: Game 13 vs NJ Devils - Thoughts from the morning after

Postby Gaucho on Tue Feb 12, 2013 12:33 pm

Niskanen and Letang are both skating. :thumb:
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Re: Game 13 vs NJ Devils - Thoughts from the morning after

Postby Gaucho on Tue Feb 12, 2013 12:34 pm

Wyopen wrote:It's pretty bad when Clarkson has more goals than Sid and Evgeni combined.


Yes, 3 points out of 1st place in the East is epic fail.
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Re: Game 13 vs NJ Devils - Thoughts from the morning after

Postby Luckybreak on Tue Feb 12, 2013 12:38 pm

Gaucho wrote:Niskanen and Letang are both skating. :thumb:


Great they are on the ice, were they skating lines? Letang-Nisky or Letang-Despres?!
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Re: Game 13 vs NJ Devils - Thoughts from the morning after

Postby Idoit40fans on Tue Feb 12, 2013 12:38 pm

I don't see that comment relating to the standings.
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Re: Game 13 vs NJ Devils - Thoughts from the morning after

Postby Gaucho on Tue Feb 12, 2013 12:43 pm

Luckybreak wrote:
Gaucho wrote:Niskanen and Letang are both skating. :thumb:


Great they are on the ice, were they skating lines? Letang-Nisky or Letang-Despres?!


Letang-Niskanen, according to twitter.
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Re: Game 13 vs NJ Devils - Thoughts from the morning after

Postby Luckybreak on Tue Feb 12, 2013 12:46 pm

Gaucho wrote:
Luckybreak wrote:
Gaucho wrote:Niskanen and Letang are both skating. :thumb:


Great they are on the ice, were they skating lines? Letang-Nisky or Letang-Despres?!


Letang-Niskanen, according to twitter.


So if they are both healthy and paired up do you think Engel, Bort or Despres will sit?
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Re: Game 13 vs NJ Devils - Thoughts from the morning after

Postby Gaucho on Tue Feb 12, 2013 12:54 pm

I'm going to assume that Engelland is going to be the odd man out, much to mikey's delight. Most definitely not Despres.
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Re: Game 13 vs NJ Devils - Thoughts from the morning after

Postby tfrizz on Tue Feb 12, 2013 1:02 pm

Gaucho wrote:I'm going to assume that Engelland is going to be the odd man out, much to mikey's delight. Most definitely not Despres.


I hope so, not that I have anything against Engelland. I think both Bortuzzo and Despres have a ton of room to grow, but neither are going to do so sitting the press box.
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Re: Game 13 vs NJ Devils - Thoughts from the morning after

Postby joopen on Tue Feb 12, 2013 1:06 pm

At least Shero got rid of Lovejoy as an option because HCDB loved him some Ben Lovejoy
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Re: Game 13 vs NJ Devils - Thoughts from the morning after

Postby pcm on Tue Feb 12, 2013 1:09 pm

Engellend is the obvious choice to sit, but 2 rookies together is shaky. Will be interesting to see how Blysma handles it.
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Re: Game 13 vs NJ Devils - Thoughts from the morning after

Postby joopen on Tue Feb 12, 2013 1:13 pm

Hasn't Niskanen been playing the left side? If that's the case then put him with Bortuzzo and leave Despres with Letang
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Re: Game 13 vs NJ Devils - Thoughts from the morning after

Postby relantel on Tue Feb 12, 2013 1:59 pm

I think Sunday was inherently more frustrating than Saturday. Both were given away, but for different causes, and it was clear toward the end of the 2nd on Saturday that if the Devils scored, it was unlikely to be the Pens night as the Devils had had the better of play for most of the first two periods. Sunday felt the opposite - Pens had the better of the play for large stretches, but either could not finish, or were stoned by Hedberg. By the middle of the third period, the Devils regained control, with several lentghy shifts cycling in the Pens end, effectively choking off the comeback and momentum Neal's early goal gave the Pens.

Almost, the rather get drubbed 5-1 or 6-1 than keep it close and blow it, when you should have lost (such as Saturday), and on the other end, ought to be up but score late to make it close. I suppose I'd rather the Sunday result than a 3rd period collapse that led to a 5-1 or 6-1 final. Holding a team to 4 shots in the first period and finding a way to come out of the period behind, though, sure is frustrating in and of itself.
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Re: Game 13 vs NJ Devils - Thoughts from the morning after

Postby Idoit40fans on Tue Feb 12, 2013 2:09 pm

They were both frustrating as they were both blacked out for me :scared:
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Re: Game 13 vs NJ Devils - Thoughts from the morning after

Postby relantel on Tue Feb 12, 2013 2:27 pm

Idoit40fans wrote:They were both frustrating as they were both blacked out for me :scared:

well, there is that. I hate that the NHLN has picked up so many games this season. Their ticker is always the right size, but they cut off the left and right of the video feeds they parrot.

At least NBCSN doesn't do that.
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Re: Game 13 vs NJ Devils - Thoughts from the morning after

Postby meecrofilm on Tue Feb 12, 2013 2:32 pm

Is this even a question, obviously Bortuzzo is going to sit if everyone were healthy tomorrow. But apparently Nisky won't be ready for a little while more, so things could still change before then.
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Re: Game 13 vs NJ Devils - Thoughts from the morning after

Postby Luckybreak on Tue Feb 12, 2013 3:41 pm

joopen wrote:Hasn't Niskanen been playing the left side? If that's the case then put him with Bortuzzo and leave Despres with Letang


Seems a logical choice but I expect Bylsma to roll

Orpik-Martin
Letang-Nisky
Engel-Despres

Shame as I'm a big fan of Bort from what we've seen
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