Tyler Kennedy

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Re: Tyler Kennedy

Postby shmenguin on Thu Feb 21, 2013 10:19 am

Malkamaniac wrote:In reality that's as much credit to just how much of a force Jordan Staal was and TK was really a suitable winger for his crashing style. TK just hasn't adapted to Sutter or can't figure out that he can't play the same way as he did before.


staal and TK worked well together, of course. last year, in particular, when they played together (which didn't happen as often as people think), they both thrived. the vibe with sutter isn't there. it's not something that shows up on the box score, but i think bennett has been fantastic glue on that line. they've jived almost every shift that the 3 of them has played together.
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Re: Tyler Kennedy

Postby Luckybreak on Thu Feb 21, 2013 10:20 am

Malkamaniac wrote:
shmenguin wrote:And 15 games doesn't negate 4 years either.


Well, I think Jordan Staal leaving did a good job of negating those :pop:


:thumb:

This plus, as Mikey said, the shift from cycling. He does what he does well and continues to do badly at what he does badly. His ceiling isn't going to change.
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Re: Tyler Kennedy

Postby Malkamaniac on Thu Feb 21, 2013 10:20 am

shmenguin wrote:
Malkamaniac wrote:In reality that's as much credit to just how much of a force Jordan Staal was and TK was really a suitable winger for his crashing style. TK just hasn't adapted to Sutter or can't figure out that he can't play the same way as he did before.


staal and TK worked well together, of course. last year, in particular, when they played together (which didn't happen as often as people think), they both thrived. the vibe with sutter isn't there. it's not something that shows up on the box score, but i think bennett has been fantastic glue on that line. they've jived almost every shift that the 3 of them has played together.


I see that line semi working now, I personally hate that Bennett is playing on that line because I think the pairing of Cooke/TK/Kennedy was the perfect third line.
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Re: Tyler Kennedy

Postby Nizzy on Thu Feb 21, 2013 10:26 am

shmenguin wrote:And 15 games doesn't negate 4 years either.


Yeah but not improving in those 4 years on any of your skill sets?
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Re: Tyler Kennedy

Postby shmenguin on Thu Feb 21, 2013 10:30 am

Malkamaniac wrote:
shmenguin wrote:
Malkamaniac wrote:In reality that's as much credit to just how much of a force Jordan Staal was and TK was really a suitable winger for his crashing style. TK just hasn't adapted to Sutter or can't figure out that he can't play the same way as he did before.


staal and TK worked well together, of course. last year, in particular, when they played together (which didn't happen as often as people think), they both thrived. the vibe with sutter isn't there. it's not something that shows up on the box score, but i think bennett has been fantastic glue on that line. they've jived almost every shift that the 3 of them has played together.


I see that line semi working now, I personally hate that Bennett is playing on that line because I think the pairing of Cooke/TK/Kennedy was the perfect third line.


tk and kennedy on the same line. you love that litte guy

i assume you meant sutter. i don't know how long you give that line before making a change, but it was getting nothing done. if cooke was a smidge more capable, i'd love to keep him in the top 6 indefinitely, and allow bennett to adjust to the NHL on the 3rd line for a while. that line has 2 predictable, responsible players and he would be encouraged to cultivate his skills as the finesse guy without worrying about deferring to the big talent. it would be ideal, IMO to keep him there. but we need a legit LW on geno's line at some point.
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Re: Tyler Kennedy

Postby slappybrown on Thu Feb 21, 2013 10:36 am

Sutter's goal last night came on a helluva shift. I haven't rewatched, but he seemed to get high-sticked in the face after taking a shot. After the Flyers went the other way, he got the puck back (which was surprising, as I was sure he was going to the bench) and rushed back down like a man possessed. It was one of the first times this year he seemed to play with aggression in the offensive zone.
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Re: Tyler Kennedy

Postby mikey287 on Thu Feb 21, 2013 10:39 am

Nizzy wrote:
shmenguin wrote:And 15 games doesn't negate 4 years either.


Yeah but not improving in those 4 years on any of your skill sets?


Once again, misguided expectations cloud realistic results. Kennedy will not improve. He's a static producer. He's been that way since he's been with the organization. He was basically ready out of the box, which saves on assembly. However, the down side is that he doesn't get better. WYSIWYG, been said hundreds of times. Now, if you don't like that, that's one thing. But you can't use it as a knock against him because it's been known by those that are grasping player development for years now. Some players have a pretty finite ceiling, Kennedy, long ago, tapped his.
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Re: Tyler Kennedy

Postby shmenguin on Thu Feb 21, 2013 10:41 am

hasn't nizzy landed on the "do not quote the foe" list by now?
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Re: Tyler Kennedy

Postby pfim on Thu Feb 21, 2013 10:44 am

Nizzy wrote:
shmenguin wrote:And 15 games doesn't negate 4 years either.


Yeah but not improving in those 4 years on any of your skill sets?


Improvement is rarely linear, if there is ever improvement. He is what he is. He can be a valuable player at times and I don't really think he's to blame for whatever the team's issues are, certainly nothing that happened last night.
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Re: Tyler Kennedy

Postby Froggy on Thu Feb 21, 2013 10:46 am

You know when the hate of a player crosses into ridiculous irrational levels when a thread criticizing a player for not producing is bumped with "it doesn't matter if he scores. He still sucks".
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Re: Tyler Kennedy

Postby Luckybreak on Thu Feb 21, 2013 10:47 am

mikey287 wrote:
Nizzy wrote:
shmenguin wrote:And 15 games doesn't negate 4 years either.


Yeah but not improving in those 4 years on any of your skill sets?


Once again, misguided expectations cloud realistic results. Kennedy will not improve. He's a static producer. He's been that way since he's been with the organization. He was basically ready out of the box, which saves on assembly. However, the down side is that he doesn't get better. WYSIWYG, been said hundreds of times. Now, if you don't like that, that's one thing. But you can't use it as a knock against him because it's been known by those that are grasping player development for years now. Some players have a pretty finite ceiling, Kennedy, long ago, tapped his.


My concern is that his style doesn't fit Sutter, a player who's potential I would be trying to develop with all tools at my disposal. Not entirely sure what is needed on that line to bring out the best in Brandon, but my hope is that it looks different prior to the playoffs.
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Re: Tyler Kennedy

Postby meow on Thu Feb 21, 2013 10:50 am

shmenguin wrote:hasn't nizzy landed on the "do not quote the foe" list by now?

It really does defeat the purpose of the foe feature.
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Re: Tyler Kennedy

Postby mikey287 on Thu Feb 21, 2013 10:52 am

Luckybreak wrote:
mikey287 wrote:
Nizzy wrote:
shmenguin wrote:And 15 games doesn't negate 4 years either.


Yeah but not improving in those 4 years on any of your skill sets?


Once again, misguided expectations cloud realistic results. Kennedy will not improve. He's a static producer. He's been that way since he's been with the organization. He was basically ready out of the box, which saves on assembly. However, the down side is that he doesn't get better. WYSIWYG, been said hundreds of times. Now, if you don't like that, that's one thing. But you can't use it as a knock against him because it's been known by those that are grasping player development for years now. Some players have a pretty finite ceiling, Kennedy, long ago, tapped his.


My concern is that his style doesn't fit Sutter, a player who's potential I would be trying to develop with all tools at my disposal. Not entirely sure what is needed on that line to bring out the best in Brandon, but my hope is that it looks different prior to the playoffs.


That's a much more valid concern. Sutter could use another thinker on his line. I think Brandon gets a little uncomfortable when he glances over and sees TK doing something "wrong"...it's just that TK has no hockey sense, so he gets by on work. Sutter gets by on hockey smarts, thus the 200 foot game that he plays every night is very cerebral. I think I can almost sense a little panic attack going on inside his head when he sees TK just "go". He could probably use a smart third-line right winger...so could 29 other teams...so, we'll have to figure something out...

EDIT: Sorry about quoting him...I don't foe people because...well...what difference does it make why I don't...noted for next time...
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Re: Tyler Kennedy

Postby meow on Thu Feb 21, 2013 10:55 am

I also think Sutter being a righty diminishes Kennedy's effectiveness.
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Re: Tyler Kennedy

Postby Nizzy on Thu Feb 21, 2013 10:56 am

shmenguin wrote:hasn't nizzy landed on the "do not quote the foe" list by now?


why?

I'm sorry I like to take strong stances on certain things with the Penguins. I don't think TK does enough to be on this Roster any further.

Edit: Why don't you try contributing something to the thread instead of personally going after people, suggesting that they should be blocked?

edit2. the foe list is for people that can't handle someone suggesting they might be wrong. Go check some of my posts, if someone corrects me, I admit it then move on. Like TK should do, move on to another team/league.
Last edited by Nizzy on Thu Feb 21, 2013 11:10 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Tyler Kennedy

Postby shmenguin on Thu Feb 21, 2013 10:57 am

mikey287 wrote:That's a much more valid concern. Sutter could use another thinker on his line. I think Brandon gets a little uncomfortable when he glances over and sees TK doing something "wrong"...it's just that TK has no hockey sense, so he gets by on work. Sutter gets by on hockey smarts, thus the 200 foot game that he plays every night is very cerebral. I think I can almost sense a little panic attack going on inside his head when he sees TK just "go". He could probably use a smart third-line right winger...so could 29 other teams...so, we'll have to figure something out...


i think bennett has played the thinker role pretty well in their short time together.
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Re: Tyler Kennedy

Postby Nizzy on Thu Feb 21, 2013 11:12 am

shmenguin wrote:
mikey287 wrote:That's a much more valid concern. Sutter could use another thinker on his line. I think Brandon gets a little uncomfortable when he glances over and sees TK doing something "wrong"...it's just that TK has no hockey sense, so he gets by on work. Sutter gets by on hockey smarts, thus the 200 foot game that he plays every night is very cerebral. I think I can almost sense a little panic attack going on inside his head when he sees TK just "go". He could probably use a smart third-line right winger...so could 29 other teams...so, we'll have to figure something out...


i think bennett has played the thinker role pretty well in their short time together.


Bennett - Sutter - Boychuk

for a few games at least?
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Re: Tyler Kennedy

Postby mikey287 on Thu Feb 21, 2013 11:12 am

shmenguin wrote:
mikey287 wrote:That's a much more valid concern. Sutter could use another thinker on his line. I think Brandon gets a little uncomfortable when he glances over and sees TK doing something "wrong"...it's just that TK has no hockey sense, so he gets by on work. Sutter gets by on hockey smarts, thus the 200 foot game that he plays every night is very cerebral. I think I can almost sense a little panic attack going on inside his head when he sees TK just "go". He could probably use a smart third-line right winger...so could 29 other teams...so, we'll have to figure something out...


i think bennett has played the thinker role pretty well in their short time together.


True or not, that's not his future with the team...or at least, the expected future is not to have Bennett as a third liner. The deadline and offseason will show us the direction of the organization in terms of management and coach philosophy I think. The team lacks a strong identity right now, I feel a state of flux almost but still able to win on skill...let's see if Shero acquires us some identity and paints a picture of what he believes this team will look like for the next few years...very critical transactions coming up soon I believe...
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Re: Tyler Kennedy

Postby columbia on Thu Feb 21, 2013 12:51 pm

He's quite the polarizing figure.
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Re: Tyler Kennedy

Postby pcm on Thu Feb 21, 2013 1:11 pm

I do think Boychuk and Sutter would play well together. I'd be fine with Cooke-Sutter-Boychuk as a 3rd line. And it's not that I think Boychuk is a significant upgrade to Kennedy at this point, just that I think he could make that line more effective. Boychuk would have to switch to RW, but since he doesn't play along the boards anyways, that shouldn't be much of a problem. I could also see Cooke-Sutter-Jeffrey as a solid 3rd line. All in all, I just don't see Sutter and Kennedy working together very well. Now Kennedy and Vitale...
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Re: Tyler Kennedy

Postby DontToewsMeBro on Thu Feb 21, 2013 1:16 pm

pcm wrote:I do think Boychuk and Sutter would play well together. I'd be fine with Cooke-Sutter-Boychuk as a 3rd line. And it's not that I think Boychuk is a significant upgrade to Kennedy at this point, just that I think he could make that line more effective. Boychuk would have to switch to RW, but since he doesn't play along the boards anyways, that shouldn't be much of a problem. I could also see Cooke-Sutter-Jeffrey as a solid 3rd line. All in all, I just don't see Sutter and Kennedy working together very well. Now Kennedy and Vitale...


I think that is a pretty fast 3rd line who can pay well defensively but control the offensive zone at times too.
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Re: Tyler Kennedy

Postby Gaucho on Thu Feb 21, 2013 1:34 pm

pcm wrote:I do think Boychuk and Sutter would play well together.


Not saying they wouldn't, but if it were the case, why didn't they play together more while they were in Carolina?
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Re: Tyler Kennedy

Postby Luckybreak on Thu Feb 21, 2013 4:03 pm

mikey287 wrote:That's a much more valid concern. Sutter could use another thinker on his line. I think Brandon gets a little uncomfortable when he glances over and sees TK doing something "wrong"...it's just that TK has no hockey sense, so he gets by on work. Sutter gets by on hockey smarts, thus the 200 foot game that he plays every night is very cerebral. I think I can almost sense a little panic attack going on inside his head when he sees TK just "go". He could probably use a smart third-line right winger...so could 29 other teams...so, we'll have to figure something out...


The mental imagary of Sutter looking to his right, seeing TK 'go', rolling his eyes and going :face: is genius. He certainly is a very cerebral player, moreso than Staal but lacks Staal's thoroughbred frame. Boychuck made some smart plays with Geno IMO, some lovely little touch passes that less aware players would never see but he has an equal number of limitations to TK in a 3rd line role. Part of me wonders how much Vitale could do there, he seems to have some smarts but not enough skill to make it work.

I think the solution lies outside the organisation but have never really considered who the 'smart' 3/4 liners are (apart from Mr Harvard :D ) Any suggestions? I'd be interested to hear who you think would work regardless of availability!
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Re: Tyler Kennedy

Postby mikey287 on Thu Feb 21, 2013 7:02 pm

Luckybreak wrote:
mikey287 wrote:That's a much more valid concern. Sutter could use another thinker on his line. I think Brandon gets a little uncomfortable when he glances over and sees TK doing something "wrong"...it's just that TK has no hockey sense, so he gets by on work. Sutter gets by on hockey smarts, thus the 200 foot game that he plays every night is very cerebral. I think I can almost sense a little panic attack going on inside his head when he sees TK just "go". He could probably use a smart third-line right winger...so could 29 other teams...so, we'll have to figure something out...


The mental imagary of Sutter looking to his right, seeing TK 'go', rolling his eyes and going :face: is genius. He certainly is a very cerebral player, moreso than Staal but lacks Staal's thoroughbred frame. Boychuck made some smart plays with Geno IMO, some lovely little touch passes that less aware players would never see but he has an equal number of limitations to TK in a 3rd line role. Part of me wonders how much Vitale could do there, he seems to have some smarts but not enough skill to make it work.

I think the solution lies outside the organisation but have never really considered who the 'smart' 3/4 liners are (apart from Mr Harvard :D ) Any suggestions? I'd be interested to hear who you think would work regardless of availability!


Good question. The first question that needs to be addressed is what kind of forecheck system do you employ? If it's aggressive, then speed, work ethic, determination become a high requirement. Weird...do we have any one on this team that works his ass off and nothing else? Oh that's right! 48. People wonder (well, they don't, they just complain) why TK has been less effective this year and there's lot of factors but one of them is: we aren't this forecheck machine anymore.

Pucks that are deemed "unwinnable" are not pursued like they used to be. Instead, we often set up in a 1-2-2 type of formation and then whatever happens, happens, because we aren't a disciplined, ahem, "trapping" team. A buzzword I don't much care for. Anyhow...so that leaves Kennedy in an awkward spot, that is: not skating at 100 MPH (don't look it up...it's like a 160 km/h or so :D ). There's a second chance to be useful though, and that's jumping passes and forcing turnovers...unfortunately, though, Kennedy is not smart. So he can't anticipate what passes are going to happen. So that's out...and honestly, at this point, he might as well just turn around and start backchecking and hope the puck starts going forward again.

So there's that. Now. In our hybrid system of "sometimes aggressive, other times not, and still other times something in between" it becomes difficult to find a player that fits that bill...you need speed and smarts...Pascal Dupuis has a good amount of both...needless to say, he's doing well for himself here. Cody Eakin, the player acquired by Dallas for Mike Ribeiro, is just a delight in this respect. Totally gets it, forecheck demon, backcheck extraordinaire, has some finishing skills. Jannik Hansen fits this mold...young Claude Giroux (before he got famous) fit this mold as we full well know from that playoff series, Darren Helm - from another playoff series we also know. Daniel Paille in Boston fits this description. Carl Hagelin is one of the fastest players in the NHL, he's pretty smart too.

Now, finding players like this that are available, well, that's another story...the Penguins probably didn't go hard after hockey sense because they were just gonna work the other team to death...now that the coaching is evolving and the system is evolving, you have a bunch of players without hockey sense that aren't fitting in all at the same time Engelland, Niskanen, Bortuzzo, Kennedy all don't have the slightest clue as to what could happen out there next...it will soon become a problem if it isn't there already...
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Re: Tyler Kennedy

Postby IMFC on Thu Feb 21, 2013 9:31 pm

I love this post - use scewdrivers for screws and hammers for nails. Resource allocation. Consistent 15-20 goal scorers who have never finished a pro season as a minus do not suck. They are average and get paid the average salary. Guess what, somebody has to be, that's what average means.
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