Tyler Kennedy

[penmyst]

For a third line player, Kennedy gets more talk than some top line guys.

Right now, Malkin is playing some of his worst hockey as a Pen. And yet, I hear more talk about Kennedy than about Malkin. What? Teh? Eff?

Kennedy is fine when he remembers that he is a third-liner.

Kennedy is bad when the thinks he is a top-6 talent.

[Luckybreak]

For a third line player, Kennedy gets more talk than some top line guys.

Right now, Malkin is playing some of his worst hockey as a Pen. And yet, I hear more talk about Kennedy than about Malkin. What? Teh? Eff?

Kennedy is fine when he remembers that he is a third-liner.

Kennedy is bad when the thinks he is a top-6 talent.

Not sure TK 'remembers' or 'thinks' very much, he's probably a better player when he doesn't waste energy on such things! I agree that Malkin should have faced far closer scrutiny but most fan bases behave this way and turn a blind eye.

[Idoit40fans]

Another fine example of how "no one talks about Malkin". I think there is one of these posts in every thread that has any criticism of anyone in it.

[Luckybreak]

Another fine example of how "no one talks about Malkin". I think there is one of these posts in every thread that has any criticism of anyone in it.

Someone will bring it up in every thread, but the majority (even if they agree) will turn a blind eye. For some, any player with a Penguin jersey is beyond reproach. I just think public accountabillity varies too much with our coaching staff but this has no doubt been covered in another thread!

[Luckybreak]

Good question. The first question that needs to be addressed is what kind of forecheck system do you employ? If it's aggressive, then speed, work ethic, determination become a high requirement. Weird...do we have any one on this team that works his ass off and nothing else? Oh that's right! 48. People wonder (well, they don't, they just complain) why TK has been less effective this year and there's lot of factors but one of them is: we aren't this forecheck machine anymore.

Pucks that are deemed "unwinnable" are not pursued like they used to be. Instead, we often set up in a 1-2-2 type of formation and then whatever happens, happens, because we aren't a disciplined, ahem, "trapping" team. A buzzword I don't much care for. Anyhow...so that leaves Kennedy in an awkward spot, that is: not skating at 100 MPH (don't look it up...it's like a 160 km/h or so ). There's a second chance to be useful though, and that's jumping passes and forcing turnovers...unfortunately, though, Kennedy is not smart. So he can't anticipate what passes are going to happen. So that's out...and honestly, at this point, he might as well just turn around and start backchecking and hope the puck starts going forward again.

So there's that. Now. In our hybrid system of "sometimes aggressive, other times not, and still other times something in between" it becomes difficult to find a player that fits that bill...you need speed and smarts...Pascal Dupuis has a good amount of both...needless to say, he's doing well for himself here. Cody Eakin, the player acquired by Dallas for Mike Ribeiro, is just a delight in this respect. Totally gets it, forecheck demon, backcheck extraordinaire, has some finishing skills. Jannik Hansen fits this mold...young Claude Giroux (before he got famous) fit this mold as we full well know from that playoff series, Darren Helm - from another playoff series we also know. Daniel Paille in Boston fits this description. Carl Hagelin is one of the fastest players in the NHL, he's pretty smart too.

Now, finding players like this that are available, well, that's another story...the Penguins probably didn't go hard after hockey sense because they were just gonna work the other team to death...now that the coaching is evolving and the system is evolving, you have a bunch of players without hockey sense that aren't fitting in all at the same time Engelland, Niskanen, Bortuzzo, Kennedy all don't have the slightest clue as to what could happen out there next...it will soon become a problem if it isn't there already...

Thanks Mikey, great post especially the explanation about the effectiveness of certain players in certain systems. I realised how much people tend to focus a player's physique/stats/speed but not what's going on under the helmet when assessing value. The 'thinking man' 3rd liners you mention seem to have developed into, or have potential to be, top 6 at some point in their career - could be harder to find a TK upgrade (in terms of compatibility with Sutter) than I thought.

Dupuis could be a great fit with Sutter, his smarts (and skating) are why he fits so well with Sid, but if Duper is retained I expect it will be to maintain Sid's comfort zone. If Kennedy is traded can moves be made to help Sid, Geno and Sutter? Though the priority is no doubt the hole on Malkin's left, it would be nice to improve the effectiveness of their respective lines in time for the playoffs. If TK plus parts are shipped out for a LW would Jeffrey be a more suitable wing for Sutter?

ps - imperial measurements originated in Britain and we cling to them whilst simultaneously using metric to fit in with the EU. All speed limits and car speedometers are MPH and recipes from older generations are hard to follow without conversion tables

[Idoit40fans]

Another fine example of how "no one talks about Malkin". I think there is one of these posts in every thread that has any criticism of anyone in it.

Someone will bring it up in every thread, but the majority (even if they agree) will turn a blind eye. For some, any player with a Penguin jersey is beyond reproach. I just think public accountabillity varies too much with our coaching staff but this has no doubt been covered in another thread!

So we're agreed, people are constantly talking about Malkin playing poorly. Lets move off the idea that they aren't.

[Luckybreak]

Another fine example of how "no one talks about Malkin". I think there is one of these posts in every thread that has any criticism of anyone in it.

Someone will bring it up in every thread, but the majority (even if they agree) will turn a blind eye. For some, any player with a Penguin jersey is beyond reproach. I just think public accountabillity varies too much with our coaching staff but this has no doubt been covered in another thread!

So we're agreed, people are constantly talking about Malkin playing poorly. Lets move off the idea that they aren't.

I think you are missing the point penmyst was making - TK receives far more flak than Malkin irrespective of how well either player are performing - and my point that yes people are talking about Malkin's poor play but there doesn't seem to be a thread devoted to it (yet) simply because he's Geno.

[Idoit40fans]

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=60801

[Luckybreak]

http://www.letsgopens.com/scripts/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=60801

I stand corrected! Hard to notice threads that low down when at work. I'm still unsure why you seem so upset about people suggesting not enough has been said about Geno's poor play in comparrison to TK (at least until that thread was created 24hrs ago)?

[Idoit40fans]

I'm not upset, but its annoying that people do pile on Malkin then others bring up the idea that not enough people are talking about his poor play. There is plenty of talk about his poor play, its well known and undisputed. People talk about Kennedy because for some reason other people argue about it.

[Luckybreak]

I'm not upset, but its annoying that people do pile on Malkin then others bring up the idea that not enough people are talking about his poor play. There is plenty of talk about his poor play, its well known and undisputed. People talk about Kennedy because for some reason other people argue about it.

Fair point, but you must agree that any criticism of the super stars is frowned upon/swept under the carpet by certain portions of the fans? I wouldn't be concerned about it TBH, I doubt those suggesting there's not enough Geno talk are doing it to anger you - like me they probably hadn't seen the thread yet!

[penmyst]

The difference in magnitude between Malkin and Kennedy is several levels.

That ought to mean we shouldn't be able to shake the "Malkin is sucking" threads off the first page.

Meanwhile, Kennedy seems to bring out the rage no matter WHERE he is mentioned.

Let me reiterate: Kennedy isn't even 1/10th as good as Malkin. As such, he should be talked about 10x LESS. But he isn't.

I can't believe this thread is up to 7 pages talking about a sub-2 mil, 3rd/4th liner. It's obscene.

[Lesky]

Has Kennedy lost his girlfriend or what is his problem? He has zero confidence and can´t seem to do anything right!

[mikey287]

He lost his way...I doubt TK has a GF, because there's no woman on the planet that would let him be pictured in that Christmas sweater...

[joopen]

Has Kennedy lost his girlfriend or what is his problem? He has zero confidence and can´t seem to do anything right!

Yes, yes he did...

Jordan Staal

[Factorial]

If Kennedy read this board that would be enough to kill his confidence....

[shmenguin]

circumstantially, he had an uphill battle before the season started. i'm sure he wants to stay with the pens next year, but they need to pay him at least 2 mill to qualify him. that'll be tough as a)the cap goes down and b) their core players get more expensive. so he has to demonstrate more value - which becomes a bigger challenge with staal gone (not to mention the lockout rust). this has probably led to some nerves, as well as him trying to force things too much, in an attempt to show that he can still produce points. and then suddenly a big chunk of the season has passed and he only has a few points. so now not only is he signing his own ticket out of town, but he has to turn things around to get a decent contract somewhere else. so he presses even more. and we see more turnovers and weird spin-o-ramas.

he'll be gone next year, i'm sure, so most of you won't have to suffer much longer. but for the remainder of the season and into the playoffs, it's important to keep in mind that he's capable of contributing to a stretch run in big ways.

[Rocco]

but for the remainder of the season and into the playoffs, it's important to keep in mind that he's capable of contributing to a stretch run in big ways.

Contributing positively or negatively?

[NashvilleCat]

If Kennedy read this board that would be enough to kill his confidence....

If his confidence was that fragile he wouldn't be in the NHL.

[farnham16]

It is beyond laughable for anyone to suggest that Malkin does not receive enough criticism from this board. That is all this place has ever done since after his rookie season. I could make an argument that Malkin has been one of if not the most critized player on the team over the past 5 years.

Tyler Kennedy is a terrible hockey player. I would bet that he would not be on any other teams lineup card right now with the way he has played this season. He is the most predictable forward in the league, isn't producing points, is a huge liability on defense, is taking horrible penalities, and is killing whatever line he is on.

The criticism of Kennedy this year is 100% justified.

[mikey287]

I'm not a big stats guy at all, but sometimes I like their quirks and crannies...

This is 5v5 data expressed in GA/60. Essentially the GAA of a forward while on the ice - here are our normal third liners:
Brandon Sutter - 1.17
Tyler Kennedy - 2.59
Matt Cooke - 2.86

I was impressed by Sutter's 200 foot game and attention to detail as soon as he got here, and statistically, nothing bad happens to us when he's on the ice.

Just for lulz, last year, Tyler Kennedy had the best GAA on the team!

[pcm]

Staal made Cooke and TK better players. Sutter, while a very good player himself, does not seem to have that ability.

Interestingly, Cooke is also the team's worst PK'er this season.

[RxBandit66]

Staal made Cooke and TK better players. Sutter, while a very good player himself, does not seem to have that ability.

Interestingly, Cooke is also the team's worst PK'er this season.

Yes and I don't see why Mark Madden raves about how great Cooke has been this season. He's looked bad for the most part IMO. Awful turnovers, never hits anyone anymore, ever, at all. Like Orpik, he has lost his edge and because they are in their mid 30's this is a cause for concern.

[Malkamaniac]

If Kennedy read this board that would be enough to kill his confidence....

If his confidence was that fragile he wouldn't be in the NHL.

He'd be traded to Winnipeg for a 7th round pick if that was the case.

[thepittman]

Thank you TK for another hard working game