Fair value?

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Fair value?

Postby Steve Dave on Wed Feb 13, 2013 7:45 am

Would this be fair value?

To Pens:
Stewart
Polak

To Blues:
Niskanen
Kennedy
3rd
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Re: Fair value?

Postby no name on Wed Feb 13, 2013 7:55 am

I always liked Chis Stewart, 6'2 230lbs, had 28 goals one year. A little injury prone, has 40 goal potential. Find it hard to believe he is on the market. I think you might have to hand over a upper prospect in stead of Niskanin.
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Re: Fair value?

Postby Idoit40fans on Wed Feb 13, 2013 8:01 am

He actually had 28 twice. Not sure he can be counted on to play 70 games though.
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Re: Fair value?

Postby ville5 on Wed Feb 13, 2013 8:20 am

Really only matters what st. Lou management thinks.
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Re: Fair value?

Postby DelPen on Wed Feb 13, 2013 8:22 am

Kennedy should be a UFA after this year, right, since we didn't tender him in 2011making him a UFA for a short period of time? Even so, he's in the last year of a $2 million contract and brings nothing to a good team except occasional 3rd line goals. On a bad team I guess he could get top 6 time.

Nisky has some value but is worth much more to us.

Big picture, is Stewart and Polak much better than Kennedy and Nisky? Stewart has only broke 15 G, 30 P once in his career and statistacally is worse than kennedy. Might as well try TK with Crosby and Dupuis first since Kennedy actually plays well as the shooter on a line.

Nisky for Polak would be good long term though but again, I want to see Despres and Bortuzzo develop more.

Besides, Blues are so far under the cap they might need to keep that $1.3 million difference.
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Re: Fair value?

Postby Idoit40fans on Wed Feb 13, 2013 8:26 am

Again, Stewart has been at 28 goals, 50+ points twice in his career. He has one year which was his rookie season in which he scored less than 15 goals and 30 points. Stewart is unquestionably better than Kennedy and a legitimate top 6 forward.
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Re: Fair value?

Postby sil on Wed Feb 13, 2013 8:38 am

DelPen wrote:Kennedy should be a UFA after this year, right, since we didn't tender him in 2011making him a UFA for a short period of time?


I believe since he was signed before the free agency period began, that doesn't apply. I think he'll be RFA.
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Re: Fair value?

Postby columbia on Wed Feb 13, 2013 8:39 am

I was confused about that too....he'll be an RFA.
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Re: Fair value?

Postby sil on Wed Feb 13, 2013 8:39 am

Idoit40fans wrote:Stewart is unquestionably better than Kennedy and a legitimate top 6 forward.


Great! Then they shouldn't have a problem with giving us Oshie instead!
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Re: Fair value?

Postby mikey287 on Wed Feb 13, 2013 8:44 am

Trying to think of an equivalent if it was proposed to us...

I guess it would be like if they offered us...

Matt D'Agostini
Kris Russell/Ian Cole
3rd round pick

for

Chris Kunitz
Brooks Orpik

Or thereabouts.

Stewart doesn't belong anywhere near this team because he's lazy and has no desire to get better. He'll get kicked around from team to team all of his career because teams will see potential but the game to game product is so poor that they'll just try to get their ROI back. He doesn't fit our team in the least, just like his brother, he's a piece of crap. Both on and off the ice.

Roman Polak is quietly a very good defensive d-man and they can't really move him especially until they figure out if Ian Cole is worth his salt. He seems to be pretty good, but he's having trouble getting regular time...

Kennedy doesn't hold very much value to a team other than ours because there are players like him out there...he's more valuable to us than he is in a trade...and Niskanen, well, I'm just not sure why we'd trade him in a season where we're looking to compete. It's not like we're swimming in d-men right now...maybe soon, but not right now. The Blues already have a RHS offensive d-man in Pietroangelo anyhow, so it's not like it's a huge, huge need for them...they're pretty deep defensively, deeper than us...
Last edited by mikey287 on Wed Feb 13, 2013 8:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Fair value?

Postby mikey287 on Wed Feb 13, 2013 8:47 am

TK is restricted, though he wasn't qualified at one point, a player can still retain RFA status so long as he doesn't meet the criteria for Group III unrestricted free agency. Similarly, a player can be a Group VI unrestricted and then revert to a Group II restricted under certain circumstances as well. To the best of my knowledge, Kennedy is a Group II restricted free agent at the end of the year. He's still more valuable to us than he is in a trade.
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Re: Fair value?

Postby Kovy27 on Wed Feb 13, 2013 8:55 am

sil wrote:
DelPen wrote:Kennedy should be a UFA after this year, right, since we didn't tender him in 2011making him a UFA for a short period of time?


I believe since he was signed before the free agency period began, that doesn't apply. I think he'll be RFA.


He's a RFA. So, you'd be correct.
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Re: Fair value?

Postby Malkamaniac on Wed Feb 13, 2013 9:21 am

I'd love Stewart, he got in the dog house a little bit last year with Hitchcock but I think the styles just meshed differently.
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Re: Fair value?

Postby Idoit40fans on Wed Feb 13, 2013 9:25 am

Well he got in the dog house in Colorado too. He's just not a player that you're going to get any kind of consistent effort from. Top 6 goal levels of scoring is definitely there though.
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Re: Fair value?

Postby Steve Dave on Wed Feb 13, 2013 9:33 am

mikey287 wrote:Trying to think of an equivalent if it was proposed to us...

I guess it would be like if they offered us...

Matt D'Agostini
Kris Russell/Ian Cole
3rd round pick

for

Chris Kunitz
Brooks Orpik

Or thereabouts.

Stewart doesn't belong anywhere near this team because he's lazy and has no desire to get better. He'll get kicked around from team to team all of his career because teams will see potential but the game to game product is so poor that they'll just try to get their ROI back. He doesn't fit our team in the least, just like his brother, he's a piece of crap. Both on and off the ice.

Roman Polak is quietly a very good defensive d-man and they can't really move him especially until they figure out if Ian Cole is worth his salt. He seems to be pretty good, but he's having trouble getting regular time...

Kennedy doesn't hold very much value to a team other than ours because there are players like him out there...he's more valuable to us than he is in a trade...and Niskanen, well, I'm just not sure why we'd trade him in a season where we're looking to compete. It's not like we're swimming in d-men right now...maybe soon, but not right now. The Blues already have a RHS offensive d-man in Pietroangelo anyhow, so it's not like it's a huge, huge need for them...they're pretty deep defensively, deeper than us...


So with your comparison, you are calling Kunitz lazy and a piece of crap and Niskanen is equal to Russell or Cole.
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Re: Fair value?

Postby mikey287 on Wed Feb 13, 2013 9:39 am

Nope, just trying to equate value. We don't have a Stewart (thank God).
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Re: Fair value?

Postby DelPen on Wed Feb 13, 2013 9:39 am

Idoit40fans wrote:Again, Stewart has been at 28 goals, 50+ points twice in his career. He has one year which was his rookie season in which he scored less than 15 goals and 30 points. Stewart is unquestionably better than Kennedy and a legitimate top 6 forward.


Stewart regular season and playoff per game average:
.3 GPG, .6 PPG
.4 GPG, .4 GPG

Kennedy regular season and playoff per game average:
.2 GPG, .5 PPG
.15 GPG, .3 GPG

So Stewart can give you 25 goals a season vs Kennedy's 17. Factor in ice time, Stewart has played more than 2 minutes per game over the last 3 years than Kennedy. Increase Kennedy's ice time into top 6 with Crosby and we would probably see comparable numbers than Stewart.

And if you really only look at the last 3 years, this season included, its .31/.59 for Stewart, .22/.52 for TK, again, ice time probably the main factor in the differences.

And TK was a point per game player in the playoffs last year, Stewart fizzled out for the Blues.

Try Kennedy on Crosby's wing with Dupuis or Boychuk on the LW. Move Kuntiz back to Malkin's LW. Then see where we are.
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Re: Fair value?

Postby mikey287 on Wed Feb 13, 2013 9:43 am

Factor in ES time vs. PP time also, DelPen, that'll help your cause some. One of Stewart's big years was mostly PP production, his first one was a lot of ES. Stewart was marginalized and scratched in the playoffs last year because he just doesn't care.
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Re: Fair value?

Postby Froggy on Wed Feb 13, 2013 9:46 am

Yeah, I think points per even strength minute is probably the only micro stat I see myself buying in to.

It also points to how crazy good a year dupuis had last year.
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Re: Fair value?

Postby Gaucho on Wed Feb 13, 2013 9:46 am

dey don cair, dey jus predend dey cair
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Re: Fair value?

Postby Malkamaniac on Wed Feb 13, 2013 9:48 am

Idoit40fans wrote:Well he got in the dog house in Colorado too. He's just not a player that you're going to get any kind of consistent effort from. Top 6 goal levels of scoring is definitely there though.


Ah, didn't know that was the case. I know Johnson got the short end of the stick/trouble in St. Louis. How about that failed trade. Trading away Stewart and the not even looked at but crazy good piece of Shattenkirk for Johnson and Jay MacClement lolol.
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Re: Fair value?

Postby murphydump55 on Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:04 am

DelPen wrote:Kennedy should be a UFA after this year, right, since we didn't tender him in 2011making him a UFA for a short period of time? Even so, he's in the last year of a $2 million contract and brings nothing to a good team except occasional 3rd line goals. On a bad team I guess he could get top 6 time.

Nisky has some value but is worth much more to us.

Big picture, is Stewart and Polak much better than Kennedy and Nisky? Stewart has only broke 15 G, 30 P once in his career and statistacally is worse than kennedy. Might as well try TK with Crosby and Dupuis first since Kennedy actually plays well as the shooter on a line.

Nisky for Polak would be good long term though but again, I want to see Despres and Bortuzzo develop more.

Besides, Blues are so far under the cap they might need to keep that $1.3 million difference.


He broke 15 G and 30 P twice....he's a 2x 28 goal scorer.
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Re: Fair value?

Postby oliasphodel on Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:09 am

Stewart was traded from Colorado because he was a problem in the room (only rumours), and liked to make party...
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Re: Fair value?

Postby DelPen on Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:49 am

murphydump55 wrote:He broke 15 G and 30 P twice....he's a 2x 28 goal scorer.


Didn't realize those were split season stats for Colorado and St. Louis :oops:
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Re: Fair value?

Postby Idoit40fans on Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:54 am

Being told that the first 3 times wasn't enough? :pop:
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