NHL realignment on the table again.

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Re: NHL realignment on the table again.

Postby beLIEve on Mon Feb 25, 2013 10:22 am

A big part of including the Florida teams within the mostly Canadian division is to help the Florida teams sell tickets while they continue to try to build a fan base. The idea being that there are a lot of Canadian hockey fans that can't afford the high demand/high priced tickets in their home town, but they're willing to fly to Florida for some nice weather and cheap tickets by comparison to see their team play on the road. I imagine we'll see a lot of Toronto/Montreal away games in Florida on the weekend in this format.
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Re: NHL realignment on the table again.

Postby tfrizz on Mon Feb 25, 2013 10:30 am

beLIEve wrote:A big part of including the Florida teams within the mostly Canadian division is to help the Florida teams sell tickets while they continue to try to build a fan base. The idea being that there are a lot of Canadian hockey fans that can't afford the high demand/high priced tickets in their home town, but they're willing to fly to Florida for some nice weather and cheap tickets by comparison to see their team play on the road. I imagine we'll see a lot of Toronto/Montreal away games in Florida on the weekend in this format.


That.... actually makes sense. The main reason behind the expansion to Florida and Phoenix was the prevalence of Canadians who retired or winter in those areas.
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Re: NHL realignment on the table again.

Postby no name on Mon Feb 25, 2013 10:39 am

In those winter cities like MTL, Ott. Boston and Buffalo, who wouldn't want to get a way to sunny FLA a few times a year.
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Re: NHL realignment on the table again.

Postby Rocco on Mon Feb 25, 2013 2:26 pm

beLIEve wrote:A big part of including the Florida teams within the mostly Canadian division is to help the Florida teams sell tickets while they continue to try to build a fan base. The idea being that there are a lot of Canadian hockey fans that can't afford the high demand/high priced tickets in their home town, but they're willing to fly to Florida for some nice weather and cheap tickets by comparison to see their team play on the road. I imagine we'll see a lot of Toronto/Montreal away games in Florida on the weekend in this format.


The Florida teams have existed for 20 years. If they haven't build a fanbase by now, it's not happening.
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Re: NHL realignment on the table again.

Postby DelPen on Mon Feb 25, 2013 2:42 pm

pekkasteele wrote:Yea, if thay want to reduce travel, how does FLA and TB end up with MTL etc? That division looks strange.

If they wanted to reduce travel, it would look like.

FLA, TB, Was, Pit, Phi, Car, CBJ, Det

MTL, Tor, Ott, Bos, Buf, NYR, NYI, NJD


Yup. But if Florida moves to Canada they could swap Columbus with Tampa. Or move Tampa to OKC in the Central Division so they have the Thunder and Lightning :)
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Re: NHL realignment on the table again.

Postby jimreb on Mon Feb 25, 2013 2:56 pm

Rocco wrote:
beLIEve wrote:A big part of including the Florida teams within the mostly Canadian division is to help the Florida teams sell tickets while they continue to try to build a fan base. The idea being that there are a lot of Canadian hockey fans that can't afford the high demand/high priced tickets in their home town, but they're willing to fly to Florida for some nice weather and cheap tickets by comparison to see their team play on the road. I imagine we'll see a lot of Toronto/Montreal away games in Florida on the weekend in this format.


The Florida teams have existed for 20 years. If they haven't build a fanbase by now, it's not happening.


Guess I don't understand the problem with Florida teams, at least according to the NHL attendance figures this year.

http://espn.go.com/nhl/attendance

To be honest, though, not sure how Florida plays to 101 % capacity when I watch their home games, it seems like all the seats at lower center ice are empty. Yeah I know the numbers are cooked with freebies and low cost tickets, but still. Right now Phoenix is the only team in danger of moving in the very near future and that situation goes beyond attendance. But, The NHL must know something I don't that they're fighting so hard to keep that team there where they just let Atlanta move. I think Columbus will be helped by a move to the Eastern Conference attendance wise and Islanders move to Brooklyn will hopefully solve some of their problems.....Of course putting good teams on the ice would help all those teams.

I guess Florida and Tampa lose money, but if I was any league I would still want some kind of presence in big population markets like Phoenix and Miami even if it is a blip on the sports radar in those towns. It's better than having none. If they want to have make money hand over fist, expand to another Toronto team and bring Quebec back instead of moving teams there. You get a ton in expansion fees and those cities will be more patient with an expansion team then say a KC or Seattle.

Not sure if the NHL cooks the attendance figures more than the NBA, but the NHL attendance figures looks more impressive than the NBA. But of course the NBA teams get a lot more tv money.

http://espn.go.com/nba/attendance
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Re: NHL realignment on the table again.

Postby slappybrown on Tue Feb 26, 2013 4:41 pm

So here is the plan. They keep the East v. West aspect overall. The wild-card spots can only be assigned within a conference. So its the top 3 in each division, then the next two best teams in the Eastern or Western overall. DET/CBJ in the East remains the same.

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/opinion ... -plan.html

The No. 4 seeds have some potential for crossover. Those spots will be given to the next two teams with the highest point total. (The club with fewer points would play the higher-seeded No. 1.) That is on a conference, not a league-wide, basis, which prevents a cross-continent matchup along the lines of Vancouver-Florida in the first round.

This is probably the biggest concession the league made to the union. It also explains why Columbus and Detroit were moved to the East. Not only is it better for their fans' television viewing, but the Red Wings really wanted assurances they wouldn't have to travel west in the first two rounds of the playoffs. This setup prevents that from happening.

What it does mean, though, is if a team crosses over, it stays there. So, let's say the Oilers finish fourth in the Pacific next year, but get to the playoffs as the "remaining team" with the most points. And say Chicago wins the Midwest (ahead of St. Louis and Nashville) and has fewer points than Pacific winner Vancouver. The Oilers technically become a Midwest Division club. They would play the Blackhawks in the first round and, with a win, the Blues or Predators in the second.


I like this, because I like the inter-division playoff style we used to have in the Patrick Division days. Breeds so much hatred. This solution still gives you some variety though, in that you might be playing a team from the other division in the first or second round some years. Pretty good solution to a difficult problem.
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Re: NHL realignment on the table again.

Postby pcm on Tue Feb 26, 2013 4:49 pm

Does seem like a pretty good solution, though I think I would make the bottom 4 slots all wild cards instead of just the bottom 2.

Also, it doesn't address the issue of the East being significantly more difficult to make the playoffs because there are 2 extra teams to compete against (and one of them is Detroit). I wouldn't want the wild cards to be able to switch conferences though, so it's sort of a hard nut to crack, until 2 more teams get added to the west.
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Re: NHL realignment on the table again.

Postby MRandall25 on Tue Feb 26, 2013 4:52 pm

When will they be implementing it, if it gets passed?
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Re: NHL realignment on the table again.

Postby slappybrown on Tue Feb 26, 2013 4:54 pm

MRandall25 wrote:When will they be implementing it, if it gets passed?

Next year will be the first year with it in place. Sense is it will be rubber-stamped.
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Re: NHL realignment on the table again.

Postby slappybrown on Tue Feb 26, 2013 4:55 pm

pcm wrote:Does seem like a pretty good solution, though I think I would make the bottom 4 slots all wild cards instead of just the bottom 2.

Also, it doesn't address the issue of the East being significantly more difficult to make the playoffs because there are 2 extra teams to compete against (and one of them is Detroit). I wouldn't want the wild cards to be able to switch conferences though, so it's sort of a hard nut to crack, until 2 more teams get added to the west.

The reality is they have to go to 32 sooner or later.
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Re: NHL realignment on the table again.

Postby Rocco on Tue Feb 26, 2013 4:56 pm

No one takes a simple problem and makes a mess of it quite like the NHL does. It's amazing.
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Re: NHL realignment on the table again.

Postby slappybrown on Tue Feb 26, 2013 4:59 pm

Rocco doesn't like something? I'm stunned.
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Re: NHL realignment on the table again.

Postby Beveridge on Tue Feb 26, 2013 5:02 pm

Rocco wrote:No one takes a simple problem and makes a mess of it quite like the NHL does. It's amazing.


I dunno. MLB is the gold standard.
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Re: NHL realignment on the table again.

Postby Steve Dave on Tue Feb 26, 2013 5:49 pm

So both expansion teams will be in the west or will someone be heading back to the west?
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Re: NHL realignment on the table again.

Postby pens2005 on Tue Feb 26, 2013 5:56 pm

Rocco wrote:No one takes a simple problem and makes a mess of it quite like the NHL does. It's amazing.


I totally agree with you.

The TSN article states the 2nd round is still inter-divisional, but what happens if 5 teams make it from one division and 3 from the other (which they clearly state could happen)?

Both wildcard teams would play where for the next round? If it's an inter-division second round matchup, what would happen?


Example: 1.PIT, 3.NYR and 4.NJ make the post season, 2.DET, 5.COL, 6.BOS, 7.TOR, 8.OTT make it from the other division, giving you 8 teams.

How the piss can you have a first round interdivision match up if PIT would play OTT in round 1? Don't call it that. It's dumb. Just friggin' seed the teams.

Then let's say OTT and TOR (the wildcard teams) make it to round 2. There is no inter-divisional 2nd round matchup either because only 1 team is left from the one division and 3 from the other.

Why does the NHL have to make everything so friggin' complicated?
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Re: NHL realignment on the table again.

Postby slappybrown on Tue Feb 26, 2013 6:01 pm

pens2005 wrote:
Rocco wrote:No one takes a simple problem and makes a mess of it quite like the NHL does. It's amazing.


I totally agree with you.

The TSN article states the 2nd round is still inter-divisional, but what happens if 5 teams make it from one division and 3 from the other (which they clearly state could happen)?

Both wildcard teams would play where for the next round? If it's an inter-division second round matchup, what would happen?


Example: 1.PIT, 3.NYR and 4.NJ make the post season, 2.DET, 5.COL, 6.BOS, 7.TOR, 8.OTT make it from the other division, giving you 8 teams.

How the piss can you have a first round interdivision match up if PIT would play OTT in round 1? Don't call it that. It's dumb. Just friggin' seed the teams.

Then let's say OTT and TOR (the wildcard teams) make it to round 2. There is no inter-divisional 2nd round matchup either because only 1 team is left from the one division and 3 from the other.

Why does the NHL have to make everything so friggin' complicated?

Its not that complicated.

PIT/NYR/WAS/NJ/PHI qualify from one, and BOS/TML/MTL from the other. Let's say BOS was top pt getter, and PHI lowest.

PIT v. NJ, PIT wins.
NYR v. WAS, NYR wins.

PIT v. NYR in second round.

The other would be:

BOSvPHI, PHI wins.
TMLvMTL, TML wins.
PHI v TML in second round.

So one division is pure inter-division, and the other isn't. So that's the "worst-case." You could then also have an inter-division conference final. So the worst case is only 2 of the 4 are pure inter-division playoffs, and in many other years it might 3 or 4 pure inter-division. This way, you might see a team from the other division now and again, while also breeding more repeat matchups amongst hated rivals, increased TV viewership, and more teams eligible for the race at the end of the season compared to a strict top 4 qualify set up. I think its great.
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Re: NHL realignment on the table again.

Postby pens2005 on Tue Feb 26, 2013 6:05 pm

slappybrown wrote:
pens2005 wrote:
Rocco wrote:No one takes a simple problem and makes a mess of it quite like the NHL does. It's amazing.


I totally agree with you.

The TSN article states the 2nd round is still inter-divisional, but what happens if 5 teams make it from one division and 3 from the other (which they clearly state could happen)?

Both wildcard teams would play where for the next round? If it's an inter-division second round matchup, what would happen?


Example: 1.PIT, 3.NYR and 4.NJ make the post season, 2.DET, 5.COL, 6.BOS, 7.TOR, 8.OTT make it from the other division, giving you 8 teams.

How the piss can you have a first round interdivision match up if PIT would play OTT in round 1? Don't call it that. It's dumb. Just friggin' seed the teams.

Then let's say OTT and TOR (the wildcard teams) make it to round 2. There is no inter-divisional 2nd round matchup either because only 1 team is left from the one division and 3 from the other.

Why does the NHL have to make everything so friggin' complicated?

Its not that complicated.

PIT/NYR/WAS/NJ/PHI qualify from one, and BOS/TML/MTL from the other. Let's say BOS was top pt getter, and PHI lowest.

PIT v. NJ, PIT wins.
NYR v. WAS, NYR wins.

PIT v. NYR in second round.

The other would be:

BOSvPHI, PHI wins.
TMLvMTL, TML wins.
PHI v TML in second round.

So one division is pure inter-division, and the other isn't. So that's the "worst-case." You could then also have an inter-division conference final. So the worst case is only 2 of the 4 are pure inter-division playoffs, and in many other years it might 3 or 4 pure inter-division. This way, you might see a team from the other division now and again, while also breeding more repeat matchups amongst hated rivals, increased TV viewership, and more teams eligible for the race at the end of the season where its a strict top 4 qualify set up. I think its great.


That's ridiculously dumb to me.

PIT would be the 2nd highest seed and SHOULD play Philly next round in your scenario. Why would Toronto get the benefit of playing the lowest seeded team in the 2nd round, and PIT stuck with playing a much higher seeded team?

And how do you just morph Philly into the other division and call it a divisional round? PHI isn't in that division.

Dunno...not a fan at all.
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Re: NHL realignment on the table again.

Postby slappybrown on Tue Feb 26, 2013 6:07 pm

Your complaint about PIT not playing PHI in the next round is the same if they play a pure divisional round. They would be locked into their division, no matter who had the best or worst records. Lets say TOR was the 4 from the other side and had the fewest pts of any playoff team and PIT won the Preisdents Trophy. We could play a NYR with one pt less than us, and not a TOR team that is the worst of all playoff teams if TOR wins.

I really think people forget/are not aware of how great the divisional playoffs were. This is the best solution to a geographic/uneven problem IMO.
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Re: NHL realignment on the table again.

Postby columbia on Tue Feb 26, 2013 6:30 pm

We don't have enough hatred with the Flyers, so this system should definitely take care of that.
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Re: NHL realignment on the table again.

Postby pens2005 on Tue Feb 26, 2013 6:44 pm

slappybrown wrote:Your complaint about PIT not playing PHI in the next round is the same if they play a pure divisional round. They would be locked into their division, no matter who had the best or worst records. Lets say TOR was the 4 from the other side and had the fewest pts of any playoff team and PIT won the Preisdents Trophy. We could play a NYR with one pt less than us, and not a TOR team that is the worst of all playoff teams if TOR wins.

I really think people forget/are not aware of how great the divisional playoffs were. This is the best solution to a geographic/uneven problem IMO.


So for your scenario Philly was pretend to be in that division for that postseason?

Who would PIT play if everyone from the other division moved on?

Just curious.
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Re: NHL realignment on the table again.

Postby pens2005 on Tue Feb 26, 2013 6:46 pm

slappybrown wrote: Lets say TOR was the 4 from the other side and had the fewest pts of any playoff team and PIT won the Preisdents Trophy. We could play a NYR with one pt less than us, and not a TOR team that is the worst of all playoff teams if TOR wins.



This is my point. It wouldn't make sense for us to play NYR, we should play the worst playoff team remaining (TOR). Not sure of your point, here.

EDIT: I get what you're saying...forget it.

Just seems weird to me.
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Re: NHL realignment on the table again.

Postby the riddler on Tue Feb 26, 2013 7:06 pm

The only problem I had with the current playoff format was that the division winners got the top 3 seeds. Often the third seed had way less points than other teams behind them, so I like how teams will actually be rewarded for having a good record and not playing in a weak division. The wild card idea seems to make sense, I can't see many issues with it. The only thing that might be an issue is the unbalanced conferences. I would rather see Columbus or Detroit stay in the West until they expand.
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Re: NHL realignment on the table again.

Postby Rocco on Tue Feb 26, 2013 7:37 pm

slappybrown wrote:Rocco doesn't like something? I'm stunned.


Flip Nashville and Winnipeg. It's not rocket science. You have even divisions that make sense geographically. Problem solved. If you later add teams like everyone expects then you can set up 8-team divisions.
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Re: NHL realignment on the table again.

Postby Steve Dave on Tue Feb 26, 2013 7:42 pm

Take the standings as of today:
Moving Detroit to the East, and going strictly by points, the top 8 teams are as follows:

1 Mon 2 Pit
3 Ott 5 NJ
4 Bos 8 Phi
6 Tor
7 Det

So Tor would slide to the Atlantic as the #4:

Mon/Det Pit/Tor
Ott/Bos NJ/Phi

Correct?
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