Official GDT 2/17/2013: PIT vs BUF

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Re: Official GDT 2/17/2013: PIT vs BUF

Postby pcm on Sun Feb 17, 2013 9:39 pm

The biggest difference between this team and last years is that Niskanen and Martin are playing lights out defense. I can't really say enough about how impressive Niskanen has been for the Pens. Last I checked his Corsi rating was the best on the team. The guy is solidly invisible for 23 minutes a game. I love it.
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Re: Official GDT 2/17/2013: PIT vs BUF

Postby The Snapshot on Sun Feb 17, 2013 11:12 pm

shmenguin wrote:
The Snapshot wrote:I know there are a lot of folks concerned coming into this season with our off-season moves (or lack of), but this team is better than last season by a long stretch.


i'd rather have staal than sutter and picks - even knowing we'd lose him for nothing in july. i thought the same thing when the trade happened, and based on what i've seen so far my feelings haven't changed.

14-87-9
19 (or whoever)-71-18
24-11-48
46-27-10

58-2
7 (the good version)-44
47-4

this lineup is superior to the one we have now.


What I said this team is better than last year's and it is. Your team above is a team that doesn't, and never will exist because it's some of last year, some of this year. Plus you left off the goalies and Vokoun may end up being critical come playoffs, even just by being on the bench.

Also before you get all squishy about Staal, remember that he signed less than 48 hours after the trade the same exact offer we made him. He should be as much a villian as Jagr or Hossa. He wanted to play with his brother, so your team can't exist.
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Re: Official GDT 2/17/2013: PIT vs BUF

Postby shmenguin on Sun Feb 17, 2013 11:26 pm

The Snapshot wrote:Also before you get all squishy about Staal, remember that he signed less than 48 hours after the trade the same exact offer we made him. He should be as much a villian as Jagr or Hossa. He wanted to play with his brother, so your team can't exist.


if shero says, "i'm going to take 1 more big shot at winning", my team exists. staal's preferences aren't really relevant in that scenario. he walks at the end of the year, but gives us 40+ games and the playoffs of all the squishy things that staal does.

he should be as much of a villain as hossa...in that he shouldn't be a villain. jagr said some bad things on his way out of the burgh, but i can't say i ever felt like booing him either.
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Re: Official GDT 2/17/2013: PIT vs BUF

Postby The Snapshot on Sun Feb 17, 2013 11:37 pm

shmenguin wrote:
The Snapshot wrote:Also before you get all squishy about Staal, remember that he signed less than 48 hours after the trade the same exact offer we made him. He should be as much a villian as Jagr or Hossa. He wanted to play with his brother, so your team can't exist.


if shero says, "i'm going to take 1 more big shot at winning", my team exists. staal's preferences aren't really relevant in that scenario. he walks at the end of the year, but gives us 40+ games and the playoffs of all the squishy things that staal does.

he should be as much of a villain as hossa...in that he shouldn't be a villain. jagr said some bad things on his way out of the burgh, but i can't say i ever felt like booing him either.


He forced the trade and wanted out. Couldn't be much plainer. Yes you can keep him and have him be a distraction all year and a dealine day trade perhaps - or lose him for nothing. No guarantee that you get a Sutter along with a top 10 pick for him then either.

Letting a guy walk for nothing that commanded that return - well that would have been franchise crippling because I believe Staal is replaceable and losing him for nothing in the face of that trade would have been dumb. It's the return coupled with the knowledge that he was leaving for sure that made the deal.

Regardless, my post said we are better now than last year, no more, no less. That is not something you refute by listing a lineup that has never existed. Pretty simple.
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Re: Official GDT 2/17/2013: PIT vs BUF

Postby bh on Mon Feb 18, 2013 12:15 am

pcm wrote:The biggest difference between this team and last years is that Niskanen and Martin are playing lights out defense. I can't really say enough about how impressive Niskanen has been for the Pens. Last I checked his Corsi rating was the best on the team. The guy is solidly invisible for 23 minutes a game. I love it.
I really watched Nisky close in the game today. He was amazing! Retrieving the puck... he was almost automatic getting a good pass out of the zone. At the other end he is always involved in the play. Hope that this is the new norm and not just a blip.
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Re: Official GDT 2/17/2013: PIT vs BUF

Postby shmenguin on Mon Feb 18, 2013 12:22 am

The Snapshot wrote:He forced the trade and wanted out. Couldn't be much plainer. Yes you can keep him and have him be a distraction all year and a dealine day trade perhaps - or lose him for nothing. No guarantee that you get a Sutter along with a top 10 pick for him then either.

Letting a guy walk for nothing that commanded that return - well that would have been franchise crippling because I believe Staal is replaceable and losing him for nothing in the face of that trade would have been dumb. It's the return coupled with the knowledge that he was leaving for sure that made the deal.

Regardless, my post said we are better now than last year, no more, no less. That is not something you refute by listing a lineup that has never existed. Pretty simple.


staal would've been just fine riding out the last year of his contract here. i don't think contenders trade valuable players just because they won't be re-signed in the offseason. and losing out on sutter and pouliot isn't exactly franchise crippling.

but you're right, i didn't really stay withing your parameters - that's fair. i'd absolutely, 1000% rather have every player from last year back than have this roster. i'm not out to flame this team. clearly they're a good team. but we'd be better off with the players we had last year, and we could have had that.
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Re: Official GDT 2/17/2013: PIT vs BUF

Postby PhantomJB93 on Mon Feb 18, 2013 12:23 am

I don't understand how anybody can be mad at Staal. I mean yeah, I'm disappointed he didn't stay, but he basically had the same offer from two teams, one where he'd remain a third liner for the foreseeable future and play third fiddle to Crosby and Malkin, and the other where he can not only be a team's star but play alongside his brother. With the money being the same in both scenarios that looks like an easy choice to me.

Jagr was a completely different scenario and anger/hatred is understandable. He pretty much led us on and then gave Mario and Shero the finger to sign with Philthy.
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Re: Official GDT 2/17/2013: PIT vs BUF

Postby MRandall25 on Mon Feb 18, 2013 12:26 am

When you say we'd be better off with the players we had last year, are you referring to that way everyone played last year, or the same players, but the way they're playing this year?

Because I'd totally would prefer this year's Paul Martin, Matt Niskanen, and Brooks Orpik over last's, but would rather have last year's Evgeni Malkin, Matt Cooke, and Tyler Kennedy.

Edit: directed at shmenguin, just to see where he's coming from
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Re: Official GDT 2/17/2013: PIT vs BUF

Postby bh on Mon Feb 18, 2013 12:32 am

The whole Staal deal to me was just disappointing. I was hopeful that Sutter would be better than he is but right now he doesn't look like much. Staal was a really really good player and it was a special thing we had where we could roll out three centers like that. I understand Jordan, but it still made us worse off. I don't blame anyone and I'm not mad a Jordon... just disappointed. RS probably did the best he could and I don't think playing this year out would have been good for Jordan or us.
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Re: Official GDT 2/17/2013: PIT vs BUF

Postby relantel on Mon Feb 18, 2013 12:34 am

Comments on the nhl.com recap page suggest Dupuis tipped in the Martin goal.
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Re: Official GDT 2/17/2013: PIT vs BUF

Postby MRandall25 on Mon Feb 18, 2013 12:39 am

relantel wrote:Comments on the nhl.com recap page suggest Dupuis tipped in the Martin goal.


I don't think so. It looks like he (Dupuis) was still lifting his stick when the puck passed him.
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Re: Official GDT 2/17/2013: PIT vs BUF

Postby Steve Dave on Mon Feb 18, 2013 12:51 am

I thought it hit Crosby's stick.
Last edited by Steve Dave on Mon Feb 18, 2013 8:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Official GDT 2/17/2013: PIT vs BUF

Postby Rylan on Mon Feb 18, 2013 1:23 am

Just the tip?
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Re: Official GDT 2/17/2013: PIT vs BUF

Postby Ad@m on Mon Feb 18, 2013 2:09 am

MRandall25 wrote:
relantel wrote:Comments on the nhl.com recap page suggest Dupuis tipped in the Martin goal.


I don't think so. It looks like he (Dupuis) was still lifting his stick when the puck passed him.


After the highlights on NHL tonight and while Crosby is doing his interview, there is a replay of Martins shot from behind the net. When the puck is on it's way to the net, you can see it change direction in slow motion. It looks like it was Crosby or Ehrhoff that deflected it. Dupuis stick was at least six inches away.
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Re: Official GDT 2/17/2013: PIT vs BUF

Postby Rylan on Mon Feb 18, 2013 2:12 am

It looked like Erhoff to me every time I saw the replay.
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Re: Official GDT 2/17/2013: PIT vs BUF

Postby SolidSnake on Mon Feb 18, 2013 3:13 am

Staal was also tired of being the "3rd wheel" I think Shero could of offered Staal $25 Mil per season and traded for Eric and Staal still wouldn't of been happy. Even if that scenario were to happen, Staal would always be behind Sid and Malkin and I think Staal was tired of it.
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Re: Official GDT 2/17/2013: PIT vs BUF

Postby André on Mon Feb 18, 2013 4:27 am

What do you guys think of Geno's game?

Tough call I think. The right intensity wasn't there for much of the game but still he made some great plays and could've just as well have been 2+2. Last game he had a couple of third assists as well. Points wise I think he'll be fine, but the frequency of equal strength chances created does worry me a bit. Could he work like that, that it's hard to give those last 5% of effort with the first line doing so well now?
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Re: Official GDT 2/17/2013: PIT vs BUF

Postby ville5 on Mon Feb 18, 2013 5:39 am

DelPen wrote:
penny lane wrote:on his post-game show.Mr. Bob Grove said the coaches decided to scratched Despres due to the assumed toughness of the sabres. :roll: 2 rookies on D does sound more plausible.

Despres is on another level than Bortuzzo and Engellend. defense was more than fine with Despres, Bortuzzo and Reese in the lineup.

This two rookie garbage is nonsense or this two rookie nonsense is garbage. Take your pick.

It had nothing to do with two rooks. Buffalo has several tough guys in their lineup. Despres isn't a fighter. But Engelland, Bortuzzo and Glass can fight. So the Pens wanted 3 fighters in the lineup just in case things got out of hand.
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Re: Official GDT 2/17/2013: PIT vs BUF

Postby Froggy on Mon Feb 18, 2013 7:32 am

re: Staal...

Yeah, we'd be a better team with him, but getting what amounts to a roster player and 2 high end prospects in return for basically half a season of Staal is a no brainer.
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Re: Official GDT 2/17/2013: PIT vs BUF

Postby Steve Dave on Mon Feb 18, 2013 8:10 am

Rylan wrote:Just the tip?


Haha
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Re: Official GDT 2/17/2013: PIT vs BUF

Postby Rylan on Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:10 am

Froggy wrote:re: Staal...

Yeah, we'd be a better team with him, but getting what amounts to a roster player and 2 high end prospects in return for basically half a season of Staal is a no brainer.


This. Short term Staal would be the better fit, but looking long term trading Staal was the best thing the Pens could have done.
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Re: Official GDT 2/17/2013: PIT vs BUF

Postby tfrizz on Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:24 am

The Snapshot wrote:He forced the trade and wanted out. Couldn't be much plainer. Yes you can keep him and have him be a distraction all year and a dealine day trade perhaps - or lose him for nothing. No guarantee that you get a Sutter along with a top 10 pick for him then either.


The fact that Shero got Sutter + Dumoulin + a top 10 pick for Staal when he did is a miracle in itself. As soon as Staal declined Shero's offer and publicly stated that he wanted to go play with his brother in Carolina, he lost all value.
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Re: Official GDT 2/17/2013: PIT vs BUF

Postby tfrizz on Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:26 am

bh wrote:
pcm wrote:The biggest difference between this team and last years is that Niskanen and Martin are playing lights out defense. I can't really say enough about how impressive Niskanen has been for the Pens. Last I checked his Corsi rating was the best on the team. The guy is solidly invisible for 23 minutes a game. I love it.
I really watched Nisky close in the game today. He was amazing! Retrieving the puck... he was almost automatic getting a good pass out of the zone. At the other end he is always involved in the play. Hope that this is the new norm and not just a blip.


He was the Pens most consistently solid defensemen all year last year, so I think it's safe to say it's the norm. Talk about a young player really benefiting from a change in scenery!
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Re: Official GDT 2/17/2013: PIT vs BUF

Postby tfrizz on Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:29 am

bh wrote:The whole Staal deal to me was just disappointing. I was hopeful that Sutter would be better than he is but right now he doesn't look like much. Staal was a really really good player and it was a special thing we had where we could roll out three centers like that. I understand Jordan, but it still made us worse off. I don't blame anyone and I'm not mad a Jordon... just disappointed. RS probably did the best he could and I don't think playing this year out would have been good for Jordan or us.


Sutter is what he is - a very good defensive forward who can chip in 30-40 points over the course of a season. In other words, he's a 3rd line center!
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Re: Official GDT 2/17/2013: PIT vs BUF

Postby tfrizz on Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:29 am

Rylan wrote:Just the tip?


:thumb:
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