Is There a "How To" Book for Playing with a 2-goal Lead?

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Is There a "How To" Book for Playing with a 2-goal Lead?

Postby RxBandit66 on Fri Feb 22, 2013 3:40 pm

Seriously, this team blows more 2-0 leads than an NBA team.

And the sad part about it is that the system never changes. Up by two, down by six, same exact thing. Pressure the attack and the defense jumps into the play.

If the forwards want to score off the rush, the best way to do that is by creating odd-man rushes. The best way to create odd-man rushes is to play TEAM DEFENSE.

A 2 goal lead means you don't need to score any more to win. The other team needs to score 3 times to win. They will have to pressure the attack to score. Capitalize on it, expand the lead. The Devils seem to have this down to a science, with a far inferior roster than the Pens do. In the past 12 games against Philly, the Pens have blown FIVE two goal leads. They lost all five of those games. I'm not a stats guy, but that has to be the first time in NHL history that a team has gone 0-5 in games in which they were leading by two goals. And they don't blow these leads over the course of two periods of hockey. They blow the leads in rapid fashion. A penalty, a flurry around the net, a couple of bounces, and they are trailing by a goal within a few minutes.

Every team knows the Pens have a problem with discipline on the ice. Likewise they know they can be rattled and they can own the area around the Pens net. That is why this talented team is 0-3 in their last three playoff series. This problem will not correct itself.
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Re: Is There a "How To" Book for Playing with a 2-goal Lead?

Postby tfrizz on Fri Feb 22, 2013 3:46 pm

What I find funny is that Bylsma wanted the Pens to learn how to defend a lead this season so they're prepared for playoffs. Guess that's going well :face:

The Pens' problem is that they completely take their foot off the gas and give their opponents complete control of the game. They need to stick to their normal game, and make small adjustments to a more defensive posture. Maybe go to a 1-2-2 or a weakside lock instead of a hard 2-man forecheck; tighten the leash on defensemen and take pinching out of the equation; etc. Defending a lead really is all about structure and discipline.
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Re: Is There a "How To" Book for Playing with a 2-goal Lead?

Postby RxBandit66 on Fri Feb 22, 2013 3:55 pm

tfrizz wrote:What I find funny is that Bylsma wanted the Pens to learn how to defend a lead this season so they're prepared for playoffs. Guess that's going well :face:

The Pens' problem is that they completely take their foot off the gas and give their opponents complete control of the game. They need to stick to their normal game, and make small adjustments to a more defensive posture. Maybe go to a 1-2-2 or a weakside lock instead of a hard 2-man forecheck; tighten the leash on defensemen and take pinching out of the equation; etc.


This. And also be more responsible with the puck. They should NEVER be attempting those ridiculous stretch passes when the other team is trailing and looking for chances to score. Bylsma's system ends up playing right into the other team's hands.

At one time, this team could play defense. And it's been so long since they've been able to do it that I wonder if they haven't lost the ability altogether.
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Re: Is There a "How To" Book for Playing with a 2-goal Lead?

Postby no name on Fri Feb 22, 2013 3:59 pm

WHen you jump out to a 2 goal lead that early its alot harder to hold it down.

Maybe the Flyers should read that book since they gave up a 2 goal lead twice in that game.
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Re: Is There a "How To" Book for Playing with a 2-goal Lead?

Postby Steve on Fri Feb 22, 2013 4:04 pm

They were talking about this on the XM NHL channel yesterday, I think it was Boomer, who had a good point. That maybe it is as simple as teams taking the foot off the gas and playing with a different mentality. (and he was referring to both the Pens and Flyers blowing a 2 goal lead in the last game) - contrasting that to the Patriots mentality - when they get up by 30 points on a team, they try to make it 40.
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Re: Is There a "How To" Book for Playing with a 2-goal Lead?

Postby MRandall25 on Fri Feb 22, 2013 4:08 pm

So, apparently nothing is wrong with the team D until we give up 6 to the Flyers. This wasn't a "problem" when we were winning.
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Re: Is There a "How To" Book for Playing with a 2-goal Lead?

Postby Penspal on Fri Feb 22, 2013 4:10 pm

To be fair, its not just the Pens that have this problem. Other quality teams have this habit too. Montreal for instance.... last night up by 2-0 & 3-1 scores, end up losing in OT to Isles.
(Moulson/Tavares score 2 on PPlay, sound familiar?)
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Re: Is There a "How To" Book for Playing with a 2-goal Lead?

Postby RxBandit66 on Fri Feb 22, 2013 4:11 pm

Steve wrote:They were talking about this on the XM NHL channel yesterday, I think it was Boomer, who had a good point. That maybe it is as simple as teams taking the foot off the gas and playing with a different mentality. (and he was referring to both the Pens and Flyers blowing a 2 goal lead in the last game) - contrasting that to the Patriots mentality - when they get up by 30 points on a team, they try to make it 40.


Adding to the score would be just as effective. Actually it would work better. But the Patriots don't take dumb selfish penalties and Brady does not force the ball into triple coverage, because he knows he doesn't need to do those things to win. He just says "ok, didn't get it this time, let's punt and put up 7 the next time." In any sport, the best defense can be a good offense and vice versa.

Silly turnovers and bad penalties don't factor into either one of those.
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Re: Is There a "How To" Book for Playing with a 2-goal Lead?

Postby RxBandit66 on Fri Feb 22, 2013 4:14 pm

MRandall25 wrote:So, apparently nothing is wrong with the team D until we give up 6 to the Flyers. This wasn't a "problem" when we were winning.


My point is that it's a major problem against the Flyers, who the Pens cannot beat in their own arena. The fact that the Flyers are in the Pens division makes it an even bigger problem. The fact that they are the Pens biggest rival makes it much harder to swallow.

And I'm tired of Shero and Mario simply stating "the Flyers are a bad matchup for us." So, every time the Pens face them in the playoffs, they'll just be content to lose and say "oh well"??
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Re: Is There a "How To" Book for Playing with a 2-goal Lead?

Postby The Snapshot on Fri Feb 22, 2013 4:20 pm

RxBandit66 wrote:I'm tired of Shero and Mario simply stating "the Flyers are a bad matchup for us." So, every time the Pens face them in the playoffs, they'll just be content to lose and say "oh well"??


Did they actually say that? I'm not sure that I read it if they did.
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Re: Is There a "How To" Book for Playing with a 2-goal Lead?

Postby tfrizz on Fri Feb 22, 2013 4:23 pm

RxBandit66 wrote:
Steve wrote:They were talking about this on the XM NHL channel yesterday, I think it was Boomer, who had a good point. That maybe it is as simple as teams taking the foot off the gas and playing with a different mentality. (and he was referring to both the Pens and Flyers blowing a 2 goal lead in the last game) - contrasting that to the Patriots mentality - when they get up by 30 points on a team, they try to make it 40.


Adding to the score would be just as effective. Actually it would work better. But the Patriots don't take dumb selfish penalties and Brady does not force the ball into triple coverage, because he knows he doesn't need to do those things to win. He just says "ok, didn't get it this time, let's punt and put up 7 the next time." In any sport, the best defense can be a good offense and vice versa.

Silly turnovers and bad penalties don't factor into either one of those.


By putting themselves in good position defensively while defending a lead, they have the opportunity to create, and hopefully capitalize on, turnovers. There's no reason they should be taking their foot off the gas in terms of creating offense, it's just a matter of making adjustments to put themselves in better position to defend.
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Re: Is There a "How To" Book for Playing with a 2-goal Lead?

Postby Desiato on Fri Feb 22, 2013 5:25 pm

MRandall25 wrote:So, apparently nothing is wrong with the team D until we give up 6 to the Flyers. This wasn't a "problem" when we were winning.


That wasn't any game. It was clearly a benchmark game after last spring. The outcome is very concerning to me.

The Pens haven't had problems scoring or winning in the regular season in years. Despite that, certain recurring issues have prevented the Penguins from achieving their true goal of playoff success. Some recurring issues are consistency, severe defensive breakdowns, discipline, and a sense that they don't adapt well to changes by the opposition.

And frankly, IMO, the Pens do not usually win well. Each game seems to have a really ugly stretch that they seem to overcome through talent.

Edit: I'd like to add that I don't think the Pens ever, collectively, take the foot off the gas. I think that when they get fatigued, mental errors result in breakdowns and scrambling, which results in more fatigue and penalties. It spirals. I think the DB system is unsustainable for 60 minutes.
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Re: Is There a "How To" Book for Playing with a 2-goal Lead?

Postby MRandall25 on Fri Feb 22, 2013 5:33 pm

Desiato wrote:And frankly, IMO, the Pens do not usually win well. Each game seems to have a really ugly stretch that they seem to overcome through talent.


You just described every team in the NHL. No team can really dominate for 60 minutes game in and game out.
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Re: Is There a "How To" Book for Playing with a 2-goal Lead?

Postby Desiato on Fri Feb 22, 2013 5:46 pm

MRandall25 wrote:
Desiato wrote:And frankly, IMO, the Pens do not usually win well. Each game seems to have a really ugly stretch that they seem to overcome through talent.


You just described every team in the NHL. No team can really dominate for 60 minutes game in and game out.


I may have described that generally, but it's not what I intended to convey. I think the Pens look much uglier than they should with their personnel and experience playing together. I think they have a weak team game that's saved by great individual plays. I don't expect them to dominate for 60 minutes.

Again, this comes down to what you expect from this roster. I expect this team to play like the top team of its generation. I don't only expect consistent winning, I expect them to handle most other teams. Great plays by Sid, Geno and Letang should be the icing on the cake at this point, not what's required to win.
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Re: Is There a "How To" Book for Playing with a 2-goal Lead?

Postby MRandall25 on Fri Feb 22, 2013 5:48 pm

Then your expectations are insanely high, especially with how much parity there is in the league.
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Re: Is There a "How To" Book for Playing with a 2-goal Lead?

Postby Idoit40fans on Fri Feb 22, 2013 5:53 pm

See the New England Patriots Pre-spygate.
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Re: Is There a "How To" Book for Playing with a 2-goal Lead?

Postby MRandall25 on Fri Feb 22, 2013 5:59 pm

Idoit40fans wrote:See the New England Patriots Pre-spygate.


I'd be more inclined to believe the comparison if there was a team who had been in just about every Cup final since the lockout. The only repeats were the Pens and Wings, both in consecutive years.
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