UFA targets at the Trade Deadline?

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Re: UFA targets at the Trade Deadline?

Postby FLPensFan on Thu Feb 28, 2013 11:12 am

I have a bad feeling RS isn't going to do much at the deadline. The Mark Eaton signing is my evidence. I understand that maybe you want a veteran d-man available come playoff time so you aren't in a situation of dressing both Bortuzzo and Despres in a playoff game. But it was mentioned somewhere that RS didn't see many good fits for the team and/or expected prices to be too high. I understand that to a point....you aren't going to make 3 trades and give up Morrow, Harrington, and Pouliot in each of them, but he MUST be willing to give up some pieces of the future to get pieces need for the present.


Smid for Bortuzzo and late round pick - Smid is a guy I've like for a few years. He's UFA, only 27, currently makes 2.25mil. Would love to see them get him and sign him to an extension at 3mil or less. Smid is a more physical presence on the blue line. This would be THE defense move I would make.

Hemsky/Gagner for a Tyler Kennedy, top d prospect, and possible high pick - I have mentioned before the EDM has a lot of money tied up in Hall, Eberle, Hemsky, Yakupov, and Nugent-Hopkins next year. Gagner is a center, and he is currently their leading scorer. He'll be due for a raise from 3.2mil he is making, and is RFA next season. I'd move Geno to wing to get Gagner. If not Gagner, Hemsky might not be a bad option, one more year at 5mil.

Peter Mueller for a pick - Florida will miss playoffs. Mueller is RFA next season.
Kris Versteeg for TK and a pick - 4mil a season is a bit higher than I'd like for Versteeg, but he has put up 20 goals when healthy.
Daniel Alfredsson for a pick - could be a one year help on the wing. Pens have been mentioned as possible destination for him.

I see a need for a physical d-man stay at home d-man, at least one top 6 winger, and 1-2 gritty players. The 4th line MUST be able to go out and be defensively responsible, but also hit, grind, cycle to wear down opponents. We aren't getting enough of that right now.

The problem I see with some of the players mentioned, Penner, Corey Perry, and Scuderi for example, is that the teams they are on are in the playoffs at the moment, and probably aren't going to be looking to trade those pieces.

I also think the Penguins need to start trying Bennett and Jeffrey in several places in the lineup a few games at a time, and find out exactly how they fit in for the playoffs. Jeffrey is starting to look like the player he was before his knee injury, with 2 goals with limited ice time.


Trade away: TK, Bortuzzo, Pouliot, #1 2014, #4 2013 (not sure what picks we have this year)
Receive: Smid, Gagner, Alfredsson
(Would still like at least one more trade for 4th line grit)

Kunitz-Crosby-Alfredsson
Neal-Gagner-Malkin
Cooke-Sutter-Dupuis
Glass-Vitale-Adams
x-Jeffrey, Bennett, Boychuk

Letang-Smid
Martin-Opik
Engelland-Niskanen
x-Despres, Eaton
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Re: UFA targets at the Trade Deadline?

Postby sil on Thu Feb 28, 2013 11:23 am

I guess some magic beans are going the other way in those deals as well?
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Re: UFA targets at the Trade Deadline?

Postby shmenguin on Thu Feb 28, 2013 11:37 am

JoseCuervo wrote:
columbia wrote:
npv708 wrote:
columbia wrote:I'm not sure why Boychuk is even on the roster.
It's unlikely that they view him as a viable injury plugin.
What's the point of keeping him around until Geno returns?


He played 8 games for the Pens. 8. Are you telling me in those 8 games, his play was terrible enough to not be an adequate replacement for TK, who has been terrible? If so, that's a bunch of malarkey.


Please point to where I even implied that.
I just don't think that they plan to play him again and hence my question as to why he is on the roster.


With the way TK has been playing so far plus his current salary, I expect Boychuk to potentially be his cheap replacement next year. The reason he is on the roster is so he doesn't get claimed.


i may be wrong, but i believe with someone who has kennedy's contract status, you basically need to give them a raise if you are going to re-sign them. for this reason, he almost certainly won't be back.

but as it relates to boychuk, despite his stretch this year, in base terms, kennedy is an "NHL Player". this season doesn't change that, as much as people would like it to. boychuk, on the other hand, is not an "NHL Player". at least not yet. he's not part of the plans for this team.

vitale will take kennedy's spot next year, and i think cooke will be back at the same price.
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Re: UFA targets at the Trade Deadline?

Postby mikey287 on Thu Feb 28, 2013 11:38 am

sil wrote:I guess some magic beans are going the other way in those deals as well?


That's as good as money sir...those are IOUs.
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Re: UFA targets at the Trade Deadline?

Postby columbia on Thu Feb 28, 2013 11:41 am

Unless something seriously changes, I agree that Kennedy is gone. Is a 4th pick at the draft too pessimistic?
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Re: UFA targets at the Trade Deadline?

Postby Rylan on Thu Feb 28, 2013 11:45 am

Keep Kennedy unless you can are getting a quality worker bee back. I am by no means a Kennedy fan, but getting rid of him just to get rid of him seems like a waste.
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Re: UFA targets at the Trade Deadline?

Postby shafnutz05 on Thu Feb 28, 2013 11:49 am

The problem is, being a "worker bee" only takes you so far. I'm not denying he usually hustles down the boards, but his decision-making is God-awful, and he has become a turnover machine. At some point, the trade-off of hustle for talent flips to far to one side of the scale
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Re: UFA targets at the Trade Deadline?

Postby Rylan on Thu Feb 28, 2013 11:51 am

Do you have someone currently on the team that is a significant upgrade? I don't think so. Kennedy is in a slump, so why sell him when he is at his lowest possible value?
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Re: UFA targets at the Trade Deadline?

Postby mikey287 on Thu Feb 28, 2013 11:57 am

columbia wrote:Unless something seriously changes, I agree that Kennedy is gone. Is a 4th pick at the draft too pessimistic?


Why dump capable depth when going on a playoff run. Is that 4th really going to help us in May and June? If we find an upgrade for TK, fine, scratch him. I know there's never any injuries on this team, but just in case, it'd be nice to have capable depth. If TK is somehow involved in a package at the deadline that improves the team, then sure. Otherwise, moving him for a draft pick is just opposite of what needs to be done. If we don't like him, we just don't qualify him at the end of the year, "so long, good luck" no big deal.

But moving him just for the sake of moving him, is the opposite of what contenders do.
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Re: UFA targets at the Trade Deadline?

Postby brwi on Thu Feb 28, 2013 11:58 am

Rylan wrote:
MRandall25 wrote:Morrow wouldn't be able to keep up with this team.

Hell, he can't even keep up with his current linemates.

He's done. I want nothing to do with him.


Said many about Guerin.


My thoughts exactly and I wasn't a fan at all of signing Guerin at that time either.

Morrow does look really slow these days....he's in full decline no doubt, but he does bring some grit and toughness along with the experience. I sure wouldn't give a 2nd rounder for him, though.
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Re: UFA targets at the Trade Deadline?

Postby shmenguin on Thu Feb 28, 2013 11:58 am

shafnutz05 wrote:The problem is, being a "worker bee" only takes you so far. I'm not denying he usually hustles down the boards, but his decision-making is God-awful, and he has become a turnover machine. At some point, the trade-off of hustle for talent flips to far to one side of the scale


turnovers and poor decisions are a new trend in a small sample - not something you decide to trade a guy over.
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Re: UFA targets at the Trade Deadline?

Postby meow on Thu Feb 28, 2013 11:59 am

shafnutz05 wrote:The problem is, being a "worker bee" only takes you so far. I'm not denying he usually hustles down the boards, but his decision-making is God-awful, and he has become a turnover machine. At some point, the trade-off of hustle for talent flips to far to one side of the scale

A third-liner has the decision making of a third-liner? Get out!
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Re: UFA targets at the Trade Deadline?

Postby shafnutz05 on Thu Feb 28, 2013 11:59 am

shmenguin wrote:
shafnutz05 wrote:The problem is, being a "worker bee" only takes you so far. I'm not denying he usually hustles down the boards, but his decision-making is God-awful, and he has become a turnover machine. At some point, the trade-off of hustle for talent flips to far to one side of the scale


turnovers and poor decisions are a new trend in a small sample - not something you decide to trade a guy over.


I'm not necessarily arguing in favor of dumping him at the trade deadline, but the poor decisions (especially in pass/shoot scenarios) are hardly new.
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Re: UFA targets at the Trade Deadline?

Postby shafnutz05 on Thu Feb 28, 2013 12:01 pm

meow wrote:
shafnutz05 wrote:The problem is, being a "worker bee" only takes you so far. I'm not denying he usually hustles down the boards, but his decision-making is God-awful, and he has become a turnover machine. At some point, the trade-off of hustle for talent flips to far to one side of the scale


A third-liner has the decision making of a third-liner? Get out!


lol, and this is why it is futile making any kind of criticism of Kennedy. The immediate response is "Well what do you expect from a third-liner?!". I consider Matt Cooke a third liner, and I find that he usually makes smart decisions with the puck. I could say the same for countless other third liners around the league.
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Re: UFA targets at the Trade Deadline?

Postby shmenguin on Thu Feb 28, 2013 12:03 pm

shafnutz05 wrote:
shmenguin wrote:
shafnutz05 wrote:The problem is, being a "worker bee" only takes you so far. I'm not denying he usually hustles down the boards, but his decision-making is God-awful, and he has become a turnover machine. At some point, the trade-off of hustle for talent flips to far to one side of the scale


turnovers and poor decisions are a new trend in a small sample - not something you decide to trade a guy over.


I'm not necessarily arguing in favor of dumping him at the trade deadline, but the poor decisions (especially in pass/shoot scenarios) are hardly new.


so you think he's been defying his coaches by shooting so often over the years? that doesn't hold water. if your characterization of kennedy was accurate from a historical POV, LGP folk hero max talbot would have won his spot at some point. dupuis also wouldn't have been the healthy scratch in the 2009 finals. or he would have been demoted to the 4th line at some point.
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Re: UFA targets at the Trade Deadline?

Postby Pavel Bure on Thu Feb 28, 2013 12:12 pm

What would you guys think of Hmarlik from Wash for 3rd pairing PK duties. I know he's old but he's a veteran presence that could help calm the young guys down. I don't see why Wash wouldn't want to move him. Thoughts?

Edit: Also after watching the Detroit game last night I wish the Pens had gone hard after Tootoo. Man do I like that guy.
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Re: UFA targets at the Trade Deadline?

Postby meow on Thu Feb 28, 2013 12:18 pm

shafnutz05 wrote:
meow wrote:
shafnutz05 wrote:The problem is, being a "worker bee" only takes you so far. I'm not denying he usually hustles down the boards, but his decision-making is God-awful, and he has become a turnover machine. At some point, the trade-off of hustle for talent flips to far to one side of the scale


A third-liner has the decision making of a third-liner? Get out!


lol, and this is why it is futile making any kind of criticism of Kennedy. The immediate response is "Well what do you expect from a third-liner?!". I consider Matt Cooke a third liner, and I find that he usually makes smart decisions with the puck. I could say the same for countless other third liners around the league.

Third-liners are incomplete players. Each one has obvious holes in their games. Kennedy just so happens to have the hockey sense of a house plant. So do half the other third line guys in the league.
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Re: UFA targets at the Trade Deadline?

Postby mikey287 on Thu Feb 28, 2013 12:20 pm

It's not terrible in a vacuum, but if I'm going to get someone that doesn't inject positive attributes to the team in a big way, I want a leader. That's why I'm ok with Brenden Morrow because of what I saw Guerin do here (who I said would probably suck here).

This team doesn't have a guy that's above it all looking down going, "listen up d********s, here's what's happening now!" and when we get behind 3-1 in the second period, he goes into the locker room, sharpens Tyler Kennedy's head to a point and javelins him through a wall to make a statement. Crosby isn't vocal in that regard in doesn't appear, Orpik gets sucked right into the rock'em, sock'em robots nonsense, no one else really seems to have any control over the locker room, HCDB isn't a loud mouth, rah, rah, take control guy...it'd be nice if we had a Scott Stevens type that goes, "this is wrong. you guys suck...**** yous!" I think Morrow might do that, Iginla would too...that's what I'm most interested in at the deadline, someone that hates losing AND knows how to win...
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Re: UFA targets at the Trade Deadline?

Postby npv708 on Thu Feb 28, 2013 1:05 pm

Which one would you rather have?
How would you rank these players?

FYI: Not all of them are Pens...

Player A:
8gp, 1G, 1A, 2pts, -1, 8 PIM, TOI/Game: 18 min, 23 SOG

Player B:
8gp, 0G, 0A, 0pts, -2, 2 PIM, TOI/Game: 10 min, 6 SOG

Player C:
8gp, 1G, 0A, 1pts, -4, 2 PIM, TOI/Game: 13 min, 21 SOG

Player D:
8gp, 0G, 2A, 2pts, -2, 4 PIM, TOI/Game 14 min, 2 SOG


Spoiler:
Player A, right? By enough to make a difference? Not really.

And I would rank them A, D, B, C


and feel free to guess the players.
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Re: UFA targets at the Trade Deadline?

Postby Trip McNeely on Thu Feb 28, 2013 1:12 pm

mikey287 wrote:It's not terrible in a vacuum, but if I'm going to get someone that doesn't inject positive attributes to the team in a big way, I want a leader. That's why I'm ok with Brenden Morrow because of what I saw Guerin do here (who I said would probably suck here).

This team doesn't have a guy that's above it all looking down going, "listen up d********s, here's what's happening now!" and when we get behind 3-1 in the second period, he goes into the locker room, sharpens Tyler Kennedy's head to a point and javelins him through a wall to make a statement. Crosby isn't vocal in that regard in doesn't appear, Orpik gets sucked right into the rock'em, sock'em robots nonsense, no one else really seems to have any control over the locker room, HCDB isn't a loud mouth, rah, rah, take control guy...it'd be nice if we had a Scott Stevens type that goes, "this is wrong. you guys suck...**** yous!" I think Morrow might do that, Iginla would too...that's what I'm most interested in at the deadline, someone that hates losing AND knows how to win...


Spot on Mikey. I am totally comfortable with us making a move for Morrow. Of course Iginila would be a better pickup but is going to cost a ton more. And obtaining Morrow ,most likely on the cheap, would enable us to fortify the 3rd line or defense as many have mentioned.
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Re: UFA targets at the Trade Deadline?

Postby columbia on Thu Feb 28, 2013 1:23 pm

Dallas gets Kennedy, Jeffrey and a first rounder

Morrow-Crosby-Jagr
Kunitz-Malkin-Neal
Cooke-Sutter-Dupuis
Glass-Vitale-Adams


:slug:
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Re: UFA targets at the Trade Deadline?

Postby MRandall25 on Thu Feb 28, 2013 1:26 pm

npv708 wrote:Which one would you rather have?
How would you rank these players?

FYI: Not all of them are Pens...

Player A:
8gp, 1G, 1A, 2pts, -1, 8 PIM, TOI/Game: 18 min, 23 SOG

Player B:
8gp, 0G, 0A, 0pts, -2, 2 PIM, TOI/Game: 10 min, 6 SOG

Player C:
8gp, 1G, 0A, 1pts, -4, 2 PIM, TOI/Game: 13 min, 21 SOG

Player D:
8gp, 0G, 2A, 2pts, -2, 4 PIM, TOI/Game 14 min, 2 SOG


Spoiler:
Player A, right? By enough to make a difference? Not really.

And I would rank them A, D, B, C


and feel free to guess the players.


Player A is Iginla, C is Morrow?
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Re: UFA targets at the Trade Deadline?

Postby npv708 on Thu Feb 28, 2013 1:27 pm

MRandall25 wrote:
npv708 wrote:Which one would you rather have?
How would you rank these players?

FYI: Not all of them are Pens...

Player A:
8gp, 1G, 1A, 2pts, -1, 8 PIM, TOI/Game: 18 min, 23 SOG

Player B:
8gp, 0G, 0A, 0pts, -2, 2 PIM, TOI/Game: 10 min, 6 SOG

Player C:
8gp, 1G, 0A, 1pts, -4, 2 PIM, TOI/Game: 13 min, 21 SOG

Player D:
8gp, 0G, 2A, 2pts, -2, 4 PIM, TOI/Game 14 min, 2 SOG


Spoiler:
Player A, right? By enough to make a difference? Not really.

And I would rank them A, D, B, C


and feel free to guess the players.


Player A is Iginla, C is Morrow?


Iginla is not in there.

Morrow is one of the players, but not player C.
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Re: UFA targets at the Trade Deadline?

Postby MRandall25 on Thu Feb 28, 2013 1:28 pm

Then Morrow is player A, because he scored the other night.
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Re: UFA targets at the Trade Deadline?

Postby Trip McNeely on Thu Feb 28, 2013 1:40 pm

Mikey, theoretical for you here,
If you gave up the same draft picks, prospects, players, would you rather have:

a) Jerome Iginla
b) Brenden Morrow and Steve Ott
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