UFA targets at the Trade Deadline?

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Re: UFA targets at the Trade Deadline?

Postby shmenguin on Thu Feb 28, 2013 2:41 pm

what is 8gp? their most recent stretch?
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Re: UFA targets at the Trade Deadline?

Postby mikey287 on Thu Feb 28, 2013 2:44 pm

Trip McNeely wrote:Mikey, theoretical for you here,
If you gave up the same draft picks, prospects, players, would you rather have:

a) Jerome Iginla
b) Brenden Morrow and Steve Ott


Iginla, not close.
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Re: UFA targets at the Trade Deadline?

Postby mikey287 on Thu Feb 28, 2013 2:57 pm

shmenguin wrote:what is 8gp? their most recent stretch?


It's just another episode of "fun with numbers" ...I'm kinda good at these, let me play...

Player A: 17 GP: 5+6=11 +4
Player B: 17 GP: 3+4=7 +2
Player C: 12 GP: 2+6=8 -2
Player D: 12 GP: 0+6=6 +6

These are from playoff series vs. Philadelphia since 2008 (if applicable).

Hint: We hate the leader in goals and points.

Answer:
Spoiler:
Kennedy: 17 GP: 5+6=11 +4
Dupuis: 17 GP: 3+4=7 +2
Kunitz: 12 GP: 2+6=8 -2
Cooke: 12 GP: 0+6=6 +6


Solution:
Spoiler:
Trade Dupuis for a 4th?


Fun?
Spoiler:
No.
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Re: UFA targets at the Trade Deadline?

Postby shmenguin on Thu Feb 28, 2013 3:02 pm

mikey287 wrote:
shmenguin wrote:what is 8gp? their most recent stretch?


It's just another episode of "fun with numbers" ...I'm kinda good at these, let me play...

Player A: 17 GP: 5+6=11 +4
Player B: 17 GP: 3+4=7 +2
Player C: 12 GP: 2+6=8 -2
Player D: 12 GP: 0+6=6 +6

These are from playoff series vs. Philadelphia since 2008 (if applicable).

Hint: We hate the leader in goals and points.

Answer:
Spoiler:
Kennedy: 17 GP: 5+6=11 +4
Dupuis: 17 GP: 3+4=7 +2
Kunitz: 12 GP: 2+6=8 -2
Cooke: 12 GP: 0+6=6 +6


Solution:
Spoiler:
Trade Dupuis for a 4th?


Fun?
Spoiler:
No.


your solution is incorrect if it doesn't include zack boychuk
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Re: UFA targets at the Trade Deadline?

Postby npv708 on Thu Feb 28, 2013 3:20 pm

Without intending to do so, you're actually helping me prove my point.

Comparatively speaking, comparing players over a 17 game stretch, even in the playoffs, is not a significant sample size to properly determine players' ability, just as an 8 game sample isn't nearly enough to determine if someone even deserves a roster spot.

A = Neal in his first 8 with the Pens
B = boychuk
C = Kennedy
D = B. Morrow

B,c,d are from their 1st games played this season.


In other words, not only is 8 games not nearly enough to judge a player fully, but the first 8 games is an even worse sample.
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Re: UFA targets at the Trade Deadline?

Postby columbia on Thu Feb 28, 2013 3:22 pm

npv708 wrote:Without intending to do so, you're actually helping me prove my point.


lol That is true.
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Re: UFA targets at the Trade Deadline?

Postby mikey287 on Thu Feb 28, 2013 3:23 pm

If that was your point, good. Because small-sample stats aren't gonna solve our issues here...
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Re: UFA targets at the Trade Deadline?

Postby JoseCuervo on Thu Feb 28, 2013 3:31 pm

So the point was there was no point?

Spoiler:
point well made
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Re: UFA targets at the Trade Deadline?

Postby npv708 on Thu Feb 28, 2013 3:34 pm

JoseCuervo wrote:So the point was there was no point?

Spoiler:
point well made


No, the point was that anyone who believes that after 8 games Boychuk is worthless is working on an insignificant sample size, especially in comparison to others.
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Re: UFA targets at the Trade Deadline?

Postby columbia on Thu Feb 28, 2013 3:52 pm

npv708 wrote:
JoseCuervo wrote:So the point was there was no point?

Spoiler:
point well made


No, the point was that anyone who believes that after 8 games Boychuk is worthless is working on an insignificant sample size, especially in comparison to others.


However, the premise of your original comment was wrong.
*I* never said that I thought he was worthless*, I said that it seems doubtful that the Pens plan to keep him around (or see much value in him)**.

They're two entirely different things and you conflated them.
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Re: UFA targets at the Trade Deadline?

Postby slappybrown on Thu Feb 28, 2013 4:01 pm

Y'all mfers need Jesus.
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Re: UFA targets at the Trade Deadline?

Postby npv708 on Thu Feb 28, 2013 4:05 pm

slappybrown wrote:Y'all mfers need Jesus.


Nah, I don't think we need to add him to our roster. I mean, Vokoun's been playing terrible, but we just don't need another goalie at this point.
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Re: UFA targets at the Trade Deadline?

Postby topshelf66 on Thu Feb 28, 2013 4:10 pm

They all walk on water as it is.
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Re: UFA targets at the Trade Deadline?

Postby shmenguin on Thu Feb 28, 2013 4:11 pm

npv708 wrote:No, the point was that anyone who believes that after 8 games Boychuk is worthless is working on an insignificant sample size, especially in comparison to others.


i think the years spent not being able to crack a mediocre carolina lineup is at least a decent sample
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Re: UFA targets at the Trade Deadline?

Postby npv708 on Thu Feb 28, 2013 4:11 pm

columbia wrote:
npv708 wrote:
JoseCuervo wrote:So the point was there was no point?

Spoiler:
point well made


No, the point was that anyone who believes that after 8 games Boychuk is worthless is working on an insignificant sample size, especially in comparison to others.


However, the premise of your original comment was wrong.
*I* never said that I thought he was worthless*, I said that it seems doubtful that the Pens plan to keep him around (or see much value in him)**.

They're two entirely different things and you conflated them.


You said earlier "You don't see the point on keeping him on the roster."

Clearly the Pens do see a point on keeping him on the roster, even when Malkin is healthy, or else he would probably be lacing up against us tonight.
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Re: UFA targets at the Trade Deadline?

Postby columbia on Thu Feb 28, 2013 4:16 pm

npv708 wrote:
columbia wrote:
npv708 wrote:
JoseCuervo wrote:So the point was there was no point?

Spoiler:
point well made


No, the point was that anyone who believes that after 8 games Boychuk is worthless is working on an insignificant sample size, especially in comparison to others.


However, the premise of your original comment was wrong.
*I* never said that I thought he was worthless*, I said that it seems doubtful that the Pens plan to keep him around (or see much value in him)**.

They're two entirely different things and you conflated them.


You said earlier "You don't see the point on keeping him on the roster."

Clearly the Pens do see a point on keeping him on the roster, even when Malkin is healthy, or else he would probably be lacing up against us tonight.


Nevermind.....
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Re: UFA targets at the Trade Deadline?

Postby npv708 on Thu Feb 28, 2013 4:20 pm

shmenguin wrote:
npv708 wrote:No, the point was that anyone who believes that after 8 games Boychuk is worthless is working on an insignificant sample size, especially in comparison to others.


i think the years spent not being able to crack a mediocre carolina lineup is at least a decent sample


- Kunitz was waived by the Trashers after failing to make that magnificent lineup.
- Briere spent how many seasons trying to crack that legendary Coyotes lineup of the late-90s/early-00's until he was traded for Chris Gratton.
- Grabner was cut by the Panthers, the offensive juggernaut of the Southeast

Am I saying Boychuk is anywhere close to any of these in talent. No.

What I am saying though, is simply because a player couldn't crack a lineup for a few season, doesn't mean he never should crack a lineup. Kunitz, Briere, and Grabner are all guys who failed, over 3 seasons worth in Kunitz and Briere's case, to make the lineup on teams that lacked offense. There are a multitude of reasons why Boychuk didn't make it with the Canes, but there are also a bunch of reasons why the Canes said they would go after him if he was waived by the Pens.

For the record, the original point I was trying to make is that I think Boychuk has the potential to be a better player than TK.
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Re: UFA targets at the Trade Deadline?

Postby shmenguin on Thu Feb 28, 2013 4:33 pm

npv708 wrote:- Kunitz was waived by the Trashers after failing to make that magnificent lineup.
- Briere spent how many seasons trying to crack that legendary Coyotes lineup of the late-90s/early-00's until he was traded for Chris Gratton.
- Grabner was cut by the Panthers, the offensive juggernaut of the Southeast


briere? eesh...you didn't look up his stats before posting that, i take it.

kunitz had no pedigree, so there was no commitment from the team to give him special consideration. those guys can fly under the radar. it's doubtful you could say the same for a first round pick like boychuk. grabner is a decent comparable, but he's more the exception than the rule.
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Re: UFA targets at the Trade Deadline?

Postby npv708 on Thu Feb 28, 2013 4:44 pm

shmenguin wrote:
npv708 wrote:- Kunitz was waived by the Trashers after failing to make that magnificent lineup.
- Briere spent how many seasons trying to crack that legendary Coyotes lineup of the late-90s/early-00's until he was traded for Chris Gratton.
- Grabner was cut by the Panthers, the offensive juggernaut of the Southeast


briere? eesh...you didn't look up his stats before posting that, i take it.

kunitz had no pedigree, so there was no commitment from the team to give him special consideration. those guys can fly under the radar. it's doubtful you could say the same for a first round pick like boychuk. grabner is a decent comparable, but he's more the exception than the rule.


Briere really only broke out with the coyotes in his 5th and 6th seasons.
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Re: UFA targets at the Trade Deadline?

Postby shmenguin on Thu Feb 28, 2013 4:51 pm

npv708 wrote:
shmenguin wrote:
npv708 wrote:- Kunitz was waived by the Trashers after failing to make that magnificent lineup.
- Briere spent how many seasons trying to crack that legendary Coyotes lineup of the late-90s/early-00's until he was traded for Chris Gratton.
- Grabner was cut by the Panthers, the offensive juggernaut of the Southeast


briere? eesh...you didn't look up his stats before posting that, i take it.

kunitz had no pedigree, so there was no commitment from the team to give him special consideration. those guys can fly under the radar. it's doubtful you could say the same for a first round pick like boychuk. grabner is a decent comparable, but he's more the exception than the rule.


Briere really only broke out with the coyotes in his 5th and 6th seasons.


yeah, it's almost like the team that was most familiar with him saw enough potential to not put him on waivers.
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Re: UFA targets at the Trade Deadline?

Postby Pavel Bure on Thu Feb 28, 2013 4:56 pm

Lets not forget Rico Fata was also a 1st round pick.
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Re: UFA targets at the Trade Deadline?

Postby no name on Thu Feb 28, 2013 6:15 pm

Read a article about Iginla, with him not playing up to his standards Calgary is worried if he wants to leave he might not fetch the return they were hoping to get. The ideal situation Iginla would give a list of places he will want to go Calagary would allow any suitors to negotiate a deal with him. Thusly allowing that team to pay a higher price.

I personally wouldn't pay much for him, i don't think he has much left in the tank at 35 yrs old.
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Re: UFA targets at the Trade Deadline?

Postby mikey287 on Thu Feb 28, 2013 6:18 pm

I don't understand what the discussion is.

Briere was having trouble because he was 5'7" playing in a rough Western conference. Being a natural center, he was getting slaughtered by the bigger, better centers in the West. He was also miscast into roles where he didn't fit and was pretty animate about not being put in those situations...he had a real hard time...he also garnered the player that used the "potential card" more often than any other in NHL history...so all wasn't really lost there...5-foot-nothing player can't thrive in DPE? This is my surprised face.

Kunitz was just lost in a numbers game. He didn't stick out as anything but a third liner maybe. No one foresaw that he'd be a very good complementary guy on a scoring line. It's not like he really even sticks out talent-wise now even in retrospect. He's a glue guy. He works, but it's not like he's a special talent.

Grabner's biggest draw is being exceptionally fast, but he's not particularly good at anything else. What his stats don't show is that he's really not even that good of a finisher. He just gets so many breakaways that he just eventually has to score. He's decent at a couple of things, but he's not some world beater. He is just about the fastest player in the NHL. Should he have been jettisoned in the way that he was? No, probably not. But if that GM foresaw him as a third liner and that same guy foresees a grittier, more defensively-tuned in third line then you throw Grabner in the garbage. The Islanders gave him big minutes to try to figure it out, just like with Moulson, just like with Parenteau, just like with Strait, just like with Hickey, just like with Montoya, etc. Sometimes they make it work, sometimes they don't: O'Marra, Bergenheim, Tambellini, Gervais, Jurcina, Sim, etc.

Just like with small sample stats, context-less transactions don't really paint an accurate picture either...forget all that noise...

You watch Boychuk play, then you decide. As someone that has seen Boychuk since he was in juniors: he's got talent, I'm not sure I love his hockey sense or his compete level...he's very inconsistent...he's just not very effective unless he's burying pucks, I'm not sold that he's fit here and I don't think he'll ever be. Maybe he's a better fit in a place with more patience for him or a place with different linemates, but to me, he looks like he's probably a Quadruple-A player...too good for the minors, not good enough for the majors...I said the same about Parenteau, Tavares dragged him along for a while and now he's actually showing some improvement in Colorado with another elite center in Matt Duchene...it's a fortunate bounce for him and it saved his career...maybe Boychuk will be so lucky, but I'm not sure if I see that happening here to be honest...
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Re: UFA targets at the Trade Deadline?

Postby Desiato on Thu Feb 28, 2013 7:40 pm

Luckybreak wrote:Good news: Of the top 16 teams in the league right now Pittsburgh has the highest GF.
Bad news: Of the top 16 teams in the league right now Pittsburgh has the 3rd worst GA.

Does that sound like a recipe for success in the playoffs? Remember how much we all laughed at Washington? Without playing team defence it won't matter if we get Perry, Iginla or genetically engineer a Mario "score a million goals" Gretzky clone to play on Geno's wing...


Yup. The Pens are already a top-heavy team proficient with scoring and struggling on D. Iginla, Alfredsson, Perry, Jagr, etc would only be a solution to the Pens problems on a gaming console. Out of all the previously referenced names, only Perry would be worth sacrificing for due to the combination of age and the high asking price.

I'm really surprised by some of the EA sports fantasy posts. The Pens need depth on D and the bottom two forward lines.

If you want a character winger who is tough and can score, then you gotta sacrifice a guy like Neal--assuming Geno is as untouchable as Sid.

Personally, I wouldn't be shocked to see a major shake-up involving one of the top six forwards or top three d. I won't even guess at what that might look like though. But the chances are if they're sticking with DB, the intent is to give this core another chance.
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Re: UFA targets at the Trade Deadline?

Postby pcm on Thu Feb 28, 2013 10:04 pm

If you want a character winger who is tough and can score, then you gotta sacrifice a guy like Neal--assuming Geno is as untouchable as Sid.


What? Or we could just trade a 2nd to Dallas for Morrow, or one of our top prospects and a 1st for Iginla.

You're over-thinking it.
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