Simon Despres is a pretty good hockey player

[MRandall25]

I still don't see why it matters. They know more than we do about how he's developing.

So you are suggesting that people on a message board should never second-guess or take issue with management's decisions since they know more than we do? Interesting. That just eliminated the need for 94% of the internet.

What I do know is that they are 13-4 with him in the lineup and 2-4 with him sitting, and he has the best +/- of any defenseman on the roster. Obviously far from perfect statistics, but I'd suggest those things help make the case for why he should be playing over guys like Mark Eaton.

No. I'm just saying I don't know why some are treating it like it's a personal insult that Despres isn't playing.

[Beveridge]

Can we just wait until lineups are announced?

We went through this all day Tuesday, and he played.

[slappybrown]

the one actual defense of this decision i have is that depres is a minor penalty machine. plus, the game could get out of hand like usual and they think the other guys will be able to manage that better.

though i'd rather depres get an interference penalty than engelland engage in the philly theatrics again

I wouldn't (not that I want the theatrics). Our PK is struggling and their power play is very good.

But yes, an Engo fight is all but guaranteed.

[DelPen]

Beyond the 13-4 with and 2-4 without, the GAA and goals per game in those games are the following:

Dressed:
13 wins, 4.46 GF, 2.15 GA
4 losses, 1.25 GF, 3.75 GA

Scrateched:
2 wins, 3.00 GF, 2.00 GA
4 losses, 3.00 GF, 5.00 GA

Total in = 3.71 GF/2.53 GA, out =3.52GF/2.91 GAA

What does all this mean? Despres is not majorly impacting anything but the wins column, when we plays we win 76% of the time, when he doesn't that drops to 33%. Leads me to believe the team plays a system better or it's keeping a lesser player off the ice.

[DelPen]

the one actual defense of this decision i have is that depres is a minor penalty machine. plus, the game could get out of hand like usual and they think the other guys will be able to manage that better.

though i'd rather depres get an interference penalty than engelland engage in the philly theatrics again

I might agree with you there if that was the reason and it was explained by DB but the only thing he ever said was it's a physicality issue with Buffalo and Ott which is a joke.

Looking at the numbers Despres takes .47 minors a game, Bortuzzo .45. Engellend .30, Letang .2, Martin .19, Orpik .17 and Nisky .07

So I guess there is a valid reason to not have your two highest minor penalty makers in the lineup if you fear Philly's PP.

I am curious though what the PK % is when Despres is in the game vs not and if his penalties hurt the team. But again, he needs to be allowed to make those mistakes now so he is not doing them in a tie game in the 3rd period of a playoff game.

[mikey287]

Beyond the 13-4 with and 2-4 without, the GAA and goals per game in those games are the following:

Dressed:
13 wins, 4.46 GF, 2.15 GA
4 losses, 1.25 GF, 3.75 GA

Scrateched:
2 wins, 3.00 GF, 2.00 GA
4 losses, 3.00 GF, 5.00 GA

Total in = 3.71 GF/2.53 GA, out =3.52GF/2.91 GAA

What does all this mean? Despres is not majorly impacting anything but the wins column, when we plays we win 76% of the time, when he doesn't that drops to 33%. Leads me to believe the team plays a system better or it's keeping a lesser player off the ice.

I have no real dog in the fight, but I'll throw something out while we're playing around with numbers...

Our goalies cumulative save pct. while Despres is on the ice this season is .939, the most among all d-men. And our shooting percentage while he's on the ice is 10.71, the leader (Bortuzzo...lol) is at 11.48%, not far away. That combined number is 1046.1, according to the stat guys, that number typically regresses to around 1000 in the long run.

Example - current d-men that played in 2010-11 & 2011-12 combined on-ice save pct. and shooting percentage per season

Letang - 1014
Orpik - 1011.5
Engelland - 1003
Niskanen - 1002
Martin - 985.5

Despres' numbers are probably unsustainably high. That 1046.1 number is 16th among all NHL d-men with 10 games played or more. For perspective, in 2011-12, the NHL leader among d-men in that number (playing at least half the season) was Adam McQuaid at 1044, followed by Andreas Lilja and Andrew Alberts at 1035. All three were third pairing d-men. So, I would assume, faced weak competition and therefore their forwards were more likely to score and their goalie was more likely to save while they were out there.

Boy...a rare stat-based post from Mikey...I'm going to take a shower now...

[slappybrown]

Beyond the 13-4 with and 2-4 without, the GAA and goals per game in those games are the following:

Dressed:
13 wins, 4.46 GF, 2.15 GA
4 losses, 1.25 GF, 3.75 GA

Scrateched:
2 wins, 3.00 GF, 2.00 GA
4 losses, 3.00 GF, 5.00 GA

Total in = 3.71 GF/2.53 GA, out =3.52GF/2.91 GAA

What does all this mean? Despres is not majorly impacting anything but the wins column, when we plays we win 76% of the time, when he doesn't that drops to 33%. Leads me to believe the team plays a system better or it's keeping a lesser player off the ice.

I have no real dog in the fight, but I'll throw something out while we're playing around with numbers...

Our goalies cumulative save pct. while Despres is on the ice this season is .939, the most among all d-men. And our shooting percentage while he's on the ice is 10.71, the leader (Bortuzzo...lol) is at 11.48%, not far away. That combined number is 1046.1, according to the stat guys, that number typically regresses to around 1000 in the long run.

Example - current d-men that played in 2010-11 & 2011-12 combined on-ice save pct. and shooting percentage per season

Letang - 1014
Orpik - 1011.5
Engelland - 1003
Niskanen - 1002
Martin - 985.5

Despres' numbers are probably unsustainably high. That 1046.1 number is 16th among all NHL d-men with 10 games played or more. For perspective, in 2011-12, the NHL leader among d-men in that number (playing at least half the season) was Adam McQuaid at 1044, followed by Andreas Lilja and Andrew Alberts at 1035. All three were third pairing d-men. So, I would assume, faced weak competition and therefore their forwards were more likely to score and their goalie was more likely to save while they were out there.

Boy...a rare stat-based post from Mikey...I'm going to take a shower now...

Why the anti-quant (or at least reluctant) stance?

[mikey287]

Staunch traditionalist when it comes to player evaluation. I haven't fully embraced their world. Peeking at it, giving it a chance. Viewing it and viewing the game and trying to balance the two to see how they work together...still not sold. Interesting stuff, but I become a luddite when I see numbers get introduced to the player evaluation zone.

[slappybrown]

Staunch traditionalist when it comes to player evaluation. I haven't fully embraced their world. Peeking at it, giving it a chance. Viewing it and viewing the game and trying to balance the two to see how they work together...still not sold. Interesting stuff, but I become a luddite when I see numbers get introduced to the player evaluation zone.

I love it. I bet in five years you'll have changed your mind entirely.

[farnham16]

Transition, skating, and defensemen jumping into the play are key parts of the Penguins system correct? Then how much sense does it make to sit a guy who is very good at all those things for a player like Engo who not only has been very poor this year, but doesn't excel at any of those things? Not to mention that fact that the Pens record is MUCH better with Despres in the lineup than it is without him.

Despres is simply a better player than Engo is and will only conintue to get way better than him. And before people talk about the need for throwing the body around against Philly, well, Despres has been doing that.

I just want the better player in there no matter what. And Despres is better than Engo and Eaton.

[farnham16]

And I don't care who's decision it is to keep benching Despres. Whether its Bylsma (probably) or Shero, its a really stupid move.

You are going to keep sitting Despres for Mark Eaton because he had one decent game? The guy couldn't find a job until we picked him up.

You are going to keep sitting him for Engo? Who has been bad all year and doesn't really bring anything to this team except the ability to drop the gloves and lay a nice hit every once in awhile?

I just don't get it at all I'm sorry. A better player overall and a better player for Bylsma's system is being sat for inferior players.

[llipgh2]

He's on the bench tonight. Along with Bortuzzo.

[npv708]

He's on the bench tonight. Along with Bortuzzo.

Because he got injured in practice.

[Rocco]

He's on the bench tonight. Along with Bortuzzo.

Because he got injured in practice.

Allegedly.

[npv708]

He's on the bench tonight. Along with Bortuzzo.

Because he got injured in practice.

Allegedly.

No he really is. Disco Dan chased after him at practice swinging a stick yelling something that sounded like "you'll never be Deryk Engelland."

[Rocco]

He's on the bench tonight. Along with Bortuzzo.

Because he got injured in practice.

Allegedly.

No he really is. Disco Dan chased after him at practice swinging a stick yelling something that sounded like "you'll never be Deryk Engelland."

Engelland has the perfect level of mediocrity that Bylsma craves in a player.

[saints11]

How Engelland continues to play as Despres sits is unbelievable.

[SteelCityFan]

How Engelland continues to play as Despres sits is unbelievable.

It truly boggles the mind. It's beyond moronic, it's sub moronic

[Rylan]

[Lt. Dish]

Is the alleged injury confirmed, or what?

I agree with the consensus that he should be out there.

[DelPen]

Is the alleged injury confirmed, or what?

I agree with the consensus that he should be out there.

The injury was debunked immediately. If there was time left in practice he'd have been back out after he got a band aid to stop the bleeding from his fingernail.

[sil]

No he really is. Disco Dan chased after him at practice swinging a stick yelling something that sounded like "you'll never be Deryk Engelland."

I actually spit out my coffee when I read that.

[Lt. Dish]

Is the alleged injury confirmed, or what?

I agree with the consensus that he should be out there.

The injury was debunked immediately. If there was time left in practice he'd have been back out after he got a band aid to stop the bleeding from his fingernail.

DelPen, have you ever had a mishap with the cuticle clippers? Not for the soff.

[DelPen]

Despres was paired with Letang at the morning skate. Eaton looks to be out as he was paired with Bortuzzo.

Unless of course the Pens twitter feed is just messing with me I'd say Despres is playing tonight.

[Beveridge]

Despres was paired with Letang at the morning skate. Eaton looks to be out as he was paired with Bortuzzo.

Unless of course the Pens twitter feed is just messing with me I'd say Despres is playing tonight.

I would say vs a fast team like toronto and still being in the regular season, eaton out is the logical choice.

Then again we are undefeated with Super Eaton in the lineup.