Trade Rumors 2013

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Re: Trade Rumors 2013

Postby murphydump55 on Tue Apr 02, 2013 12:37 pm

Defence21 wrote:
murphydump55 wrote:
sil wrote:
no name wrote:wonder what happened to Mike Zigomanis he was a great 4th line center and was great in the faceoff dot.


Coaches and GM's watched his play after each faceoff.


He wasn't that bad. I don't get it. He has decent numbers in a 4th line role and great numbers in the AHL. Add in his face off domination and he's a decent role player. There's something else to the story. I've seen worse players, that bring less, have a regular spot in thr NHL.

That's the problem: you're looking at numbers. Watch his game and you'll see a slow-footed player whose claim to fame is purely his faceoffs. If he was worth an NHL roster spot, he would be in the NHL, not in the minor league system of perennial bottom feeder team in Toronto (even though they're much better this season).


I have watched him and like I said, I've seen worse. I'm not saying he's great, I'm saying I've seen worse. Don't accuse me of stat watching.

What about Yanick Perreault? There's a guy that could score and win face offs. Not a great skater but he got by and contributed. He disappeared much like Zigomanis.
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Re: Trade Rumors 2013

Postby penny lane on Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:00 pm

Shelly Anderson ‏@pgshelly 13m Boston reportedly lands Jagr. #Penguins have road game vs. Bruins April 19.
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Re: Trade Rumors 2013

Postby sil on Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:06 pm

penny lane wrote:
Shelly Anderson ‏@pgshelly 13m Boston reportedly lands Jagr. #Penguins have road game vs. Bruins April 19.


Hehe...Jagr the consolation prize.
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Re: Trade Rumors 2013

Postby jwest21 on Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:08 pm

sil wrote:
penny lane wrote:
Shelly Anderson ‏@pgshelly 13m Boston reportedly lands Jagr. #Penguins have road game vs. Bruins April 19.


Hehe...Jagr the consolation prize.

2nd runner up! Iginla then Morrow were the big prize and the consolation ;)
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Re: Trade Rumors 2013

Postby slappybrown on Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:09 pm

This probably won't be popular, but 2013 Jagr is a better player than 2013 Iginla is, albeit not by a large margin. That said, I don't have any issue with us getting Iginla and not Jagr. Either would have been great.
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Re: Trade Rumors 2013

Postby MRandall25 on Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:11 pm

slappybrown wrote:This probably won't be popular, but 2013 Jagr is a better player than 2013 Iginla is, albeit not by a large margin. That said, I don't have any issue with us getting Iginla and not Jagr. Either would have been great.


Mentioned it in the other thread, but the talent surrounding Jagr in Dallas >>> the talent surrounding Iginla in Calgary, and Iginla only had like 4 less points.
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Re: Trade Rumors 2013

Postby slappybrown on Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:12 pm

Its not an opinion that I base solely on points. The advanced metrics and the difference he made both last year in PHI and this year in DAL are astounding for someone his age.
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Re: Trade Rumors 2013

Postby PensFanInDC on Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:27 pm

No idea where to put this...

Image
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Re: Trade Rumors 2013

Postby nocera on Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:31 pm

slappybrown wrote:Its not an opinion that I base solely on points. The advanced metrics and the difference he made both last year in PHI and this year in DAL are astounding for someone his age.


Advanced metrics?
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Re: Trade Rumors 2013

Postby DelPen on Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:34 pm

nocera wrote:
slappybrown wrote:Its not an opinion that I base solely on points. The advanced metrics and the difference he made both last year in PHI and this year in DAL are astounding for someone his age.


Advanced metrics?


You know, the ones so advanced no one can explain them :D
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Re: Trade Rumors 2013

Postby Defence21 on Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:36 pm

murphydump55 wrote:
Defence21 wrote:
murphydump55 wrote:
sil wrote:
no name wrote:wonder what happened to Mike Zigomanis he was a great 4th line center and was great in the faceoff dot.


Coaches and GM's watched his play after each faceoff.


He wasn't that bad. I don't get it. He has decent numbers in a 4th line role and great numbers in the AHL. Add in his face off domination and he's a decent role player. There's something else to the story. I've seen worse players, that bring less, have a regular spot in thr NHL.

That's the problem: you're looking at numbers. Watch his game and you'll see a slow-footed player whose claim to fame is purely his faceoffs. If he was worth an NHL roster spot, he would be in the NHL, not in the minor league system of perennial bottom feeder team in Toronto (even though they're much better this season).


I have watched him and like I said, I've seen worse. I'm not saying he's great, I'm saying I've seen worse. Don't accuse me of stat watching.

What about Yanick Perreault? There's a guy that could score and win face offs. Not a great skater but he got by and contributed. He disappeared much like Zigomanis.

I accused you of stat watching based on: "decent numbers in a 4th line role and great numbers in the AHL. Add in his face off domination and he's a decent role player." I didn't see any analysis of his game other than stats. I apologize if I offended you -- I was just suggesting that his numbers are deceiving, as his game is not NHL-caliber anymore, and at its best, it was borderline NHL-caliber.
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Re: Trade Rumors 2013

Postby sil on Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:39 pm

nocera wrote:
slappybrown wrote:Its not an opinion that I base solely on points. The advanced metrics and the difference he made both last year in PHI and this year in DAL are astounding for someone his age.


Advanced metrics?


"Wait a minute, aren't 'proactive,' and 'paradigm,' (and 'advanced metrics') just buzz words that stupid people use to sound intelligent"? - Itchy and Scratchy writer

Spoiler:
And I'm just joshin' ya slappy :wink:
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Re: Trade Rumors 2013

Postby nocera on Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:43 pm

Wouldn't be surprised if the Pens don't even see Boston in the playoffs. That likely wouldn't be until the Eastern Conference Finals.
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Re: Trade Rumors 2013

Postby since1970 on Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:44 pm

.....I like Jagr and by all accounts he's made himself a much better team player, at this point it's nice to see him on a contender, but he's not the guy to throw the team on his back any longer. He's in great shape, but he's still 41yrs old and regardless how in shape you are being pummeled by 20/30yr olds in a seven game series will take it's toll, and he still regards the defensive end as a black hole, so he's going to try and become Boston's version of Billy G for this years playoff run. Ok...........
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Re: Trade Rumors 2013

Postby shafnutz05 on Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:45 pm

nocera wrote:Wouldn't be surprised if the Pens don't even see Boston in the playoffs. That likely wouldn't be until the Eastern Conference Finals.


I've thought the same--and of course, that scenario could play out either way
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Re: Trade Rumors 2013

Postby slappybrown on Tue Apr 02, 2013 3:12 pm

nocera wrote:
slappybrown wrote:Its not an opinion that I base solely on points. The advanced metrics and the difference he made both last year in PHI and this year in DAL are astounding for someone his age.


Advanced metrics?

Here's one example:

http://www.sloansportsconference.com/wp ... rmance.pdf

tl;dnr; go to the chart on page 5.

Jagr's other numbers like Corsi (which is so advanced and you probably wouldn't understand DelPen which is just shots (those that hit the net, those that miss, and those that are blocked minus the other team's shots that hit the net, miss, and are blocked) show a huge difference when he is on the ice relative to when he isn't. He's a possession monster. Having the puck is a very good thing.
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Re: Trade Rumors 2013

Postby relantel on Tue Apr 02, 2013 3:23 pm

PensFanInDC wrote:No idea where to put this...

Image

Glass Murray eh.
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Re: Trade Rumors 2013

Postby Henry Hank on Tue Apr 02, 2013 6:31 pm

NYR win the Clowe sweepstakes :roll: I'm hardly one to base a player's worth on stuff like goals and assists, but it's amazing the market that existed for a guy with no goals in 28 games this season.

Tomorrow's going to be extremely dull.
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Re: Trade Rumors 2013

Postby marek on Tue Apr 02, 2013 6:35 pm

Henry Hank wrote:NYR win the Clowe sweepstakes :roll: I'm hardly one to base a player's worth on stuff like goals and assists, but it's amazing the market that existed for a guy with no goals in 28 games this season.

Tomorrow's going to be extremely dull.



I can't describe how angry this post made me. :fist:
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Re: Trade Rumors 2013

Postby pens#1 on Tue Apr 02, 2013 6:36 pm

Henry Hank wrote:NYR win the Clowe sweepstakes :roll: I'm hardly one to base a player's worth on stuff like goals and assists, but it's amazing the market that existed for a guy with no goals in 28 games this season.

Tomorrow's going to be extremely dull.


What did they give up?
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Re: Trade Rumors 2013

Postby mikey287 on Tue Apr 02, 2013 6:39 pm

2nd, 3rd, conditional 2nd.
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Re: Trade Rumors 2013

Postby pens#1 on Tue Apr 02, 2013 6:40 pm

I'm surprised the flyers haven't made any moves, buying or selling
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Re: Trade Rumors 2013

Postby pcm on Tue Apr 02, 2013 6:41 pm

How many times is San Jose going to pick in the 2nd round next draft? Jeesh
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Re: Trade Rumors 2013

Postby marek on Tue Apr 02, 2013 6:46 pm

pens#1 wrote:I'm surprised the flyers haven't made any moves, buying or selling


They really can't without giving someone up with significant salary... they are up against the cap ($4,219,879 left in AAV space)... Frodo Briere with a NMC sitting at 6.5 Million is quite a burden. Wait til they have to re-sign Cloud Jiroo next season...

They'll have to move Simmonds... Voracek... Coburn... or the Schenns
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Re: Trade Rumors 2013

Postby pens#1 on Tue Apr 02, 2013 6:50 pm

marek wrote:
pens#1 wrote:I'm surprised the flyers haven't made any moves, buying or selling


They really can't without giving someone up with significant salary... they are up against the cap ($4,219,879 left in AAV space)... Frodo Briere with a NMC sitting at 6.5 Million is quite a burden. Wait til they have to re-sign Cloud Jiroo next season...

They'll have to move Simmonds... Voracek... Coburn... or the Schenns


Normally they make moves - even if they don't make sense
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