What do the Penguins need?

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Re: What do the Penguins need?

Postby Henry Hank on Sun Mar 10, 2013 6:58 pm

I know a lot of people say that the defense is at fault for a lot of the goals, yet it seems like the same people complain about the goal tending being soft. Can't have it both ways.


Why can't you? The team D has been garbage and the goaltending has been pretty bad too. They both need to be better. It doesn't matter which is at fault. They're giving up goals at a rate that will sink them far too early in the playoffs.
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Re: What do the Penguins need?

Postby Hugo Stiglitz on Sun Mar 10, 2013 6:58 pm

columbia wrote:
Hugo Stiglitz wrote:
shmenguin wrote:Why would buffalo trade Ott?


Because they may be going into rebuild


What would the Pens be giving them in return, to assist said rebuild?


Draft pick/Defense prospect. We have plenty of those...good ones. But this isn't a straight up trade for Ott.
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Re: What do the Penguins need?

Postby Willie Kool on Sun Mar 10, 2013 7:02 pm

npv708 wrote:
Lt. Dish wrote:
ville5 wrote:
columbia wrote:
Gaucho wrote:Love.


Kennedy for Albert Lee (e4)

Kennedy for Christie Lee (e5).

Kathie Lee, and it's done deal.

I'd be okay with Sara Lee.

I heard it's Robert E Lee - for his veteran leadership.
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Re: What do the Penguins need?

Postby Lt. Dish on Sun Mar 10, 2013 7:04 pm

Willie Kool wrote:
npv708 wrote:
Lt. Dish wrote:
ville5 wrote:
columbia wrote:
Kennedy for Albert Lee (e4)

Kennedy for Christie Lee (e5).

Kathie Lee, and it's done deal.

I'd be okay with Sara Lee.

I heard it's Robert E Lee - for his veteran leadership.


Yeah, what's he ever won, though?
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Re: What do the Penguins need?

Postby DesertPenguin on Sun Mar 10, 2013 7:07 pm

Pens either need a 3rd line RW to make that line harder to play against, or a new RW for Crosby so Dupuis can move down and fill that role. I'm not sure what to do about the 4th line, but that group has not been effective for us. I like Jeffrey as a player, but Vitale is a better fit for the 4th line. Id rather see DJ take Adams' spot than Vitale's.
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Re: What do the Penguins need?

Postby It'sagreatdayforhockey! on Sun Mar 10, 2013 7:40 pm

Even strength isn't a problem. Taking your numbers and supposing that our 1st line performed only as well as our current second line (i.e. 12-13 ES goals) we would still be in the top 10 in the league at even strength [approximately 7th].
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Re: What do the Penguins need?

Postby DelPen on Sun Mar 10, 2013 7:51 pm

columbia wrote:
Hugo Stiglitz wrote:
shmenguin wrote:Why would buffalo trade Ott?


Because they may be going into rebuild


What would the Pens be giving them in return, to assist said rebuild?

Glass and a 2nd?
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Re: What do the Penguins need?

Postby Hugo Stiglitz on Sun Mar 10, 2013 7:53 pm

It'sagreatdayforhockey! wrote:Even strength isn't a problem. Taking your numbers and supposing that our 1st line performed only as well as our current second line (i.e. 12-13 ES goals) we would still be in the top 10 in the league at even strength [approximately 7th].


Even strength is a major problem. Teams can find a way to shut down a top line and if we're not getting the PP opportunities or facing a team that has a solid PK will quickly allow teams to exploit our weaknesses. The Penguins' top-six needs to be a tougher to play against at even strength.
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Re: What do the Penguins need?

Postby columbia on Sun Mar 10, 2013 7:57 pm

You don't rebuild a foundation with glass. ;)
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Re: What do the Penguins need?

Postby profpolisci on Sun Mar 10, 2013 8:01 pm

'David Daysharnelles'
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Re: What do the Penguins need?

Postby NJ5934 on Sun Mar 10, 2013 8:36 pm

What the Penguins need is Steve Ott along with a physical, shot blocking, blueliner. Ott is a guy that wears many hats but at face value, he is an upgrade over Kennedy on the third line both in skill and physicality. He's also skilled enough to take shifts on the top lines when needed and he is a charachter and a huge pain in the ***, something the Penguins really haven't had since the days of Matt Barnaby.
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Re: What do the Penguins need?

Postby tfrizz on Sun Mar 10, 2013 8:38 pm

Crosby clones, clearly.


Also, some defrnsive/shutdown defensemen and maybe a bottom 6 upgrade.
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Re: What do the Penguins need?

Postby Gaucho on Sun Mar 10, 2013 8:39 pm

A winger for Sid maybe?
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Re: What do the Penguins need?

Postby Nizzy on Sun Mar 10, 2013 8:40 pm

Great thread, really enjoying reading everyone's post and agree with most of them.

1. Coaching - Say what you want, and I know that I've harped on it enough. You can't let up 3+ goals a game like the Penguins have. We win games on talent alone. Now imagine if we had a Babcock back there? Instead of Zetterberg/Datsyuk it would be Crosby/Malkin. Have to sacrifice those extra 10-15 points they might get per year for sound "Team" defense. I have a feeling the Pens make the ECF this year and unfortunately it will save Bylsma's job. :( I honestly believe that this is the biggest problem with our team, and it will cost this organization at least 1 cup sticking with Bylsma this long. Since the 2009 cup run, I do not believe we've had enough, the right pieces, were healthy enough going into the playoffs to win a cup. (Sometimes a combination of some). I feel we are close, borderline this year, definitely next year. This all depends on Bylsma not ruining the rookies development. I'm still shocked everytime Despres doesn't play, but Bennett, is now locked into a top 6 role. He deserves it, but the point is, they both do. Bylsma sticks with Engellands, Kennedys, Adams, way to long. These guys are borderline NHL players. It just disgusts me that fringe 30 year old players are getting QUALITY time over the rookies that are simply already better. This season was too short to fire Bylsma, I think it saved his job. Because this +3 goal crap a game wouldn't last the entire 82 games.

2. Defensive Stud / Crease Clearer - We've all brought up Scuderi/Gill enough. We had a guy like this in Michalek, and he didn't fit the system anymore. Martin is more of a puck possession/positional guy. We need that guy that is going to give us 20 minutes of solid defense on a consistent basis, hitting, blocking shots. Orpik has not been that guy. Of course you'd like this from all of your defenseman, but you need at least one to play against team's A1 stars, like Scuderi did on Ovechkin. I believe Despres is that guy, but he might not be fully matured yet. I honestly believe Letang - Despres should be this teams top pairing for a long time. I hope Shero/Bylsma don't screw it up. A guy like Despres can be a stud, for a fair cap hit price. You got get a guy like Jack Johnson, what's his cap hit going to be? If this team wants Jackson, package Pouliot/Maatta, Forward Prospect, 1st, and maybe Niskanen so they have a current roster guy. However don't trade Despres. I don't mind 'sacrificing' this year per-say to keep our youth. I believe it was Kovy27 that said trade Despres, we have a bunch of him in the minors. While I agree with his basic assumption, there's NO GUARANTEE any of Pouliot, Morrow, Harrington, Dumoulin will end up as good as a top pairing guy.

3. Bottom 6 Forward - This completely changed from top 6 to bottom six the moment Bennett took the 2nd line. He's going to have some rust for the entire year, maybe even a bad playoffs. However LEAVE THIS KID ON THE 2ND LINE AND DON'T TOUCH HIM. He's going to have Rookie nights. Don't demote him Bylsma. This team needs a new 4th line. Cooke - Sutter - Jeffrey. I'm okay with that as my 3rd going into the playoffs this year even though it's not that great. Kennedy needs to play on the 4th line. It might actually give the 4th line a kick, demoting him. I don't know why we sign guys like Glass for 1.1M, but let like guys like Talbot/Rupp walk for around 1.5-1.7m. That 500k is so worth it. I mean look at TK and his 2.0M WASTE OF MONEY. Rupp had some big goals for us, and decent amount for a 4th liner. That was a big 6'5" body we just have never replaced.

In summary, I think this team, since the cup has been moving towards "north-south" "gogogo fast and puck dump too much". Not replacing the Gills, Rupps, Malones, etc. Not all aspects of the playoffs speed up, some things slow down. We have nobody that can break a Holmstrom's back. We have nobody that's just going to punch someone in the face just because its the playoffs. What are we going to do when Boston stacks 5 around the crease with Chara, Hamilton, Bergeron, Marchand, Lucic?

You get smacked around and embarrassed.

Shero/Bylsma aren't building a team to win cups. They are building a team to win games in November and December.

I honestly hope its a first round exit, and pressure is put on Shero to can Bylsma. I just hope they bring in a big name, and not promote from within... I'm sure Bylsma will still have his deer in the headlights post game.
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Re: What do the Penguins need?

Postby Beveridge on Sun Mar 10, 2013 8:49 pm

Nizzy wrote:I honestly hope its a first round exit, and pressure is put on Shero to can Bylsma. I just hope they bring in a big name, and not promote from within... I'm sure Bylsma will still have his deer in the headlights post game.


You should have lead off with this to save everyone the trouble of reading anything else and wasting their time.
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Re: What do the Penguins need?

Postby columbia on Sun Mar 10, 2013 8:52 pm

That's already happening.
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Re: What do the Penguins need?

Postby MRandall25 on Sun Mar 10, 2013 8:53 pm

DesertPenguin wrote:Pens either need a 3rd line RW to make that line harder to play against, or a new RW for Crosby so Dupuis can move down and fill that role. I'm not sure what to do about the 4th line, but that group has not been effective for us. I like Jeffrey as a player, but Vitale is a better fit for the 4th line. Id rather see DJ take Adams' spot than Vitale's.


Why is Dupuis a problem?
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Re: What do the Penguins need?

Postby Beveridge on Sun Mar 10, 2013 8:54 pm

MRandall25 wrote:
DesertPenguin wrote:Pens either need a 3rd line RW to make that line harder to play against, or a new RW for Crosby so Dupuis can move down and fill that role. I'm not sure what to do about the 4th line, but that group has not been effective for us. I like Jeffrey as a player, but Vitale is a better fit for the 4th line. Id rather see DJ take Adams' spot than Vitale's.


Why is Dupuis a problem?



He doesn't say Dupuis is a problem. He's saying Dupuis is probably a better option for the 3rd line than anyone out there if we did get someone to plug in with sid and kunitz. Not that we need someone other than Dupuis, but I agree with the premise of the unspoken.
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Re: What do the Penguins need?

Postby columbia on Sun Mar 10, 2013 8:56 pm

Dupuis has 10 goals in 25 games.
Not sure how that equates to him be better suited for the 3rd line.
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Re: What do the Penguins need?

Postby columbia on Sun Mar 10, 2013 9:11 pm

Make that 11.
The dude is a perfect fit on that line.
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Re: What do the Penguins need?

Postby Gaucho on Sun Mar 10, 2013 9:18 pm

Beveridge wrote:
Nizzy wrote:I honestly hope its a first round exit, and pressure is put on Shero to can Bylsma. I just hope they bring in a big name, and not promote from within... I'm sure Bylsma will still have his deer in the headlights post game.


You should have lead off with this to save everyone the trouble of reading anything else and wasting their time.
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Re: What do the Penguins need?

Postby NJ5934 on Sun Mar 10, 2013 9:27 pm

I don't see the need to shuffle up the top six with Bennett in the mix. Jeffrey does nothing for me as a 3rd or 4th liner. I would be willing to go for character over celebrity at this point. Move Jeffrey, Kennedy, a prospect and a pick or two. Ott and Fistric would be my guys if they were available.

Dupuis/Crosby/Kunitz
Bennett/Malkin/Neal
Cooke/Sutter/Ott
Glass/Vitale/Adams

Letang/Orpik
Nisk/Martin
Fistric/Despres
Engelland/Eaton

I fine with that going into the postseason. Nobody breaks the bank and both Ott and Fistric are guys that could be long term fits.
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Re: What do the Penguins need?

Postby Hugo Stiglitz on Sun Mar 10, 2013 9:30 pm

columbia wrote:Dupuis has 10 goals in 25 games.
Not sure how that equates to him be better suited for the 3rd line.


I don't think anyone is insinuating that he's better suited for the 3rd line, at least I wasn't. I was merely suggesting that the third line needs to be better and it would be a nice situation for us to be in if we could afford to move him to the third to make it a force.
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Re: What do the Penguins need?

Postby GeoTank on Sun Mar 10, 2013 9:33 pm

npv708 wrote:
Lt. Dish wrote:
ville5 wrote:
columbia wrote:
Gaucho wrote:Love.


Kennedy for Albert Lee (e4)

Kennedy for Christie Lee (e5).


Kathie Lee, and it's done deal.


I'd be okay with Sara Lee.


Image

Creme Pie.... I like pie
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Re: What do the Penguins need?

Postby Kovy27 on Sun Mar 10, 2013 11:32 pm

Nizzy wrote:Great thread, really enjoying reading everyone's post and agree with most of them.

1. Coaching - Say what you want, and I know that I've harped on it enough. You can't let up 3+ goals a game like the Penguins have. We win games on talent alone. Now imagine if we had a Babcock back there? Instead of Zetterberg/Datsyuk it would be Crosby/Malkin. Have to sacrifice those extra 10-15 points they might get per year for sound "Team" defense. I have a feeling the Pens make the ECF this year and unfortunately it will save Bylsma's job. :( I honestly believe that this is the biggest problem with our team, and it will cost this organization at least 1 cup sticking with Bylsma this long. Since the 2009 cup run, I do not believe we've had enough, the right pieces, were healthy enough going into the playoffs to win a cup. (Sometimes a combination of some). I feel we are close, borderline this year, definitely next year. This all depends on Bylsma not ruining the rookies development. I'm still shocked everytime Despres doesn't play, but Bennett, is now locked into a top 6 role. He deserves it, but the point is, they both do. Bylsma sticks with Engellands, Kennedys, Adams, way to long. These guys are borderline NHL players. It just disgusts me that fringe 30 year old players are getting QUALITY time over the rookies that are simply already better. This season was too short to fire Bylsma, I think it saved his job. Because this +3 goal crap a game wouldn't last the entire 82 games.

2. Defensive Stud / Crease Clearer - We've all brought up Scuderi/Gill enough. We had a guy like this in Michalek, and he didn't fit the system anymore. Martin is more of a puck possession/positional guy. We need that guy that is going to give us 20 minutes of solid defense on a consistent basis, hitting, blocking shots. Orpik has not been that guy. Of course you'd like this from all of your defenseman, but you need at least one to play against team's A1 stars, like Scuderi did on Ovechkin. I believe Despres is that guy, but he might not be fully matured yet. I honestly believe Letang - Despres should be this teams top pairing for a long time. I hope Shero/Bylsma don't screw it up. A guy like Despres can be a stud, for a fair cap hit price. You got get a guy like Jack Johnson, what's his cap hit going to be? If this team wants Jackson, package Pouliot/Maatta, Forward Prospect, 1st, and maybe Niskanen so they have a current roster guy. However don't trade Despres. I don't mind 'sacrificing' this year per-say to keep our youth. I believe it was Kovy27 that said trade Despres, we have a bunch of him in the minors. While I agree with his basic assumption, there's NO GUARANTEE any of Pouliot, Morrow, Harrington, Dumoulin will end up as good as a top pairing guy.

3. Bottom 6 Forward - This completely changed from top 6 to bottom six the moment Bennett took the 2nd line. He's going to have some rust for the entire year, maybe even a bad playoffs. However LEAVE THIS KID ON THE 2ND LINE AND DON'T TOUCH HIM. He's going to have Rookie nights. Don't demote him Bylsma. This team needs a new 4th line. Cooke - Sutter - Jeffrey. I'm okay with that as my 3rd going into the playoffs this year even though it's not that great. Kennedy needs to play on the 4th line. It might actually give the 4th line a kick, demoting him. I don't know why we sign guys like Glass for 1.1M, but let like guys like Talbot/Rupp walk for around 1.5-1.7m. That 500k is so worth it. I mean look at TK and his 2.0M WASTE OF MONEY. Rupp had some big goals for us, and decent amount for a 4th liner. That was a big 6'5" body we just have never replaced.

In summary, I think this team, since the cup has been moving towards "north-south" "gogogo fast and puck dump too much". Not replacing the Gills, Rupps, Malones, etc. Not all aspects of the playoffs speed up, some things slow down. We have nobody that can break a Holmstrom's back. We have nobody that's just going to punch someone in the face just because its the playoffs. What are we going to do when Boston stacks 5 around the crease with Chara, Hamilton, Bergeron, Marchand, Lucic?

You get smacked around and embarrassed.

Shero/Bylsma aren't building a team to win cups. They are building a team to win games in November and December.

I honestly hope its a first round exit, and pressure is put on Shero to can Bylsma. I just hope they bring in a big name, and not promote from within... I'm sure Bylsma will still have his deer in the headlights post game.


So, I agree with you on most of this. However, I said we have a bunch of Despres in the minors that we could move or if we got a big stud D and moved Despres...I believe we have the horses that could fill his role. I really don't want RS to move Despres or Joe Morrow. I think those 2 are your future studs for this team.
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