What do the Penguins need?

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Re: What do the Penguins need?

Postby praxitas on Mon Mar 11, 2013 3:20 pm

I would like to echo the sentiment of not resigning Rupp, only to resign a slightly cheaper, but way less effective alternative. Horrible decision making there IMO. If Minny would tank I would happily trade #48 and get Rupp in return. If not Rupp try to find a bottom pairing guy that excels in the PK. The PK needs fixed badly. The big body Dman would help the PK as well. Murray, Reghehr, Smid and all the others mentioned previously I'm sure would help. As much as I'd love an Ott or Clowe I'm sure there will be lots of interest in them, driving up the price. I don't know how much I would be prepared to give up for either of them. Although, Cooke and Ott on the same line might be the most hated line in hockey history would be intriguing. :wink:

If BB keeps playing solid hockey I see know reason to mess with the top two lines.

Oh yeah, that #68 seems to be still playing pretty good hockey for Dallas. Just sayin.... I know, I'll do it for ya :face: :face:
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Re: What do the Penguins need?

Postby NeddieVedder on Mon Mar 11, 2013 3:35 pm

praxitas wrote:I would like to echo the sentiment of not resigning Rupp, only to resign a slightly cheaper, but way less effective alternative. Horrible decision making there IMO.


Rupp left the year before last. Pens basically chose between he and Asham, and Shero doesn't give 3 year deals to complementary players unless it's a special occasion and they take a pay cut for an extra year (Matt Cooke). I'll never forget his tweet the day he left, thanking Pittsburgh and promising to "hit The Mullet for all fans."

Wait, is the cheaper and less effective alternative Kennedy, not Glass? Welp.
Last edited by NeddieVedder on Mon Mar 11, 2013 3:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What do the Penguins need?

Postby IntangibleBeer on Mon Mar 11, 2013 3:35 pm

I've read this thread and there are a lot of good ideas on it.

However, what the Pens need most of all is a big, scary, crease-clearing defenseman. A Hal Gill type as has been pointed out before.

And my preference is Hyapathia Lee.
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Re: What do the Penguins need?

Postby IntangibleBeer on Mon Mar 11, 2013 3:36 pm

I've read this thread and there are a lot of good ideas on it.

However, what the Pens need most of all is a big, scary, crease-clearing defenseman. A Hal Gill type as has been pointed out before.

And my preference is Hyapathia Lee.
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Re: What do the Penguins need?

Postby meow on Mon Mar 11, 2013 3:41 pm

Look at the Pens problems - penalty killing and stay at home defense. I'm not sure how Rupp helps either of those problems.
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Re: What do the Penguins need?

Postby saints11 on Mon Mar 11, 2013 3:47 pm

There are those who will tell you that Harrington is the purest gem of all the young defensemen; so I doubt he will be the first moved. I would much rather move Niskanen or Engelland. The need is to acquire size for the D pairings, that means guys like Murray, Smid, Regehr, or Hainsey.
The other major problem is bottom 6 grit and the PK. We would have to be blind not to acknowledge the chemistry of the top line and be concerned about breaking it up; however, I still feel that Duper is playing up and benefits mostly from the work of Sid and Kuny. Duper gives us an immediate upgrade to the 3rd line, which could solve many problems there. Also, by moving Duper off the top line might give him greater focus for the PK. You don't just move him off that line for anyone, a finisher like Iggy justifies it.
For me; I'd move what is necessary to secure Iggy. Move a package of Niskanen, Kennedy, Glass, and a pick to San Jose for Murray, Clowe, and a pick; and Bortuzzo and Engelland to Edmonton for Smid.
D pairings: Orpik and Martin; Letang and Smid; Despres and Murray/Eaton
Lines:Kunitz--Crosby--Iggy; Bennett--Malkin--Neal; Cooke--Sutter--Dupuis; Clowe--Jeffrey--Adams
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Re: What do the Penguins need?

Postby Great58 on Mon Mar 11, 2013 3:51 pm

Nizzy wrote:I honestly hope its a first round exit, and pressure is put on Shero to can Bylsma. I just hope they bring in a big name, and not promote from within... I'm sure Bylsma will still have his deer in the headlights post game.

Why would you hope for a first round elimination?
I could understand the sentiment "if they are eliminated in the first round I hope they fire Bylsma", but you appear to savor the idea of this occurring. It seems your hatred of Bylsma and your desire to have him fired exceeds your desire to have the team succeed. :roll:
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Re: What do the Penguins need?

Postby Great58 on Mon Mar 11, 2013 3:54 pm

Niskanen, Kennedy, Glass, and a pick to San Jose for Murray, Clowe, and a pick

Does Shero have incrimminating pictures of Doug Wilson to facilitate this trade happening?
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Re: What do the Penguins need?

Postby praxitas on Mon Mar 11, 2013 4:00 pm

He is just a 4th liner I would prefer/wish to have back. Plain and simple. I don't recall the 4th line being -20ish combined during his stay. (maybe they were, I'm not racing to check stats) Plus as was mentioned he actually put some goals on the board. How many does Glass, Adams & Vitale have combined? Rupp hit hard, played ok D and fought when he needed and had some timely goals. Glass is mainly whom I was referring too. I think Glass has played ok and has done what he's paid to do, but they get scored on too much. I love Vitale's game personally, I don't know who the weak link is on the line, but they need to step up or Shero needs to fix it.

meow - The PK and defense would be other players totally, or, from a totally different trade. Sorry to confuse.
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Re: What do the Penguins need?

Postby Hugo Stiglitz on Mon Mar 11, 2013 4:05 pm

My favorite idea so far is going after Ott and Regehr, or at least two guys like that.

I'm not trying to sound antagonistic, but anyone who thinks offense isn't an issue is not looking beyond the stats. If the Penguins do not get a lot of PP opportunities or if the PP starts to just not click anymore the Pens are in a heap of trouble. While I have faith Malkin(once he returns) will find his scoring again, right now the Pens are a 1 line team. We are not hard enough to play at ES and that will catch up with them come playoff time. You can't win a cup by simply having a stellar PP unit. Having a stellar PP is merely a an attribute that is important to have to be a cup contender.

After the first line, the scoring drops off SIGNIFICANTLY. Getting someone like Iginla or Setoguchi is of paramount importance. Getting a player like that fixes another weakness which is making the third line better. If the Pens acquire Iginla, who ever falls to the third line will make that line much better. Dupuis has emerged as true top-six winger and there's obviously no need for Sid to upgrade, but getting an Iginla-type moves Dupuis down to the third and gives us a pretty lethal third line. If the Penguins were to acquire a Setoguchi or Ott, those are two players who could play on the third line and make it lethal.

While the common saying is "defense" wins cup or "the best offense is a good defense," the adverse is also true. If the Penguins pick up a player who makes them a better puck-possession team, they spend less time in their own zone and wear down the other team. The Penguins need to be harder to play against. We also need this year's Hal Gill. I think both are necessary and can be done.

Just to nail this point home, Dupuis is one of my favorite players and suggesting him moving down to the third line is not saying "that's where he's supposed to play." It's saying we need to be in a position where we have the depth that requires having a player of his caliber moved down to the third line.
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Re: What do the Penguins need?

Postby shmenguin on Mon Mar 11, 2013 4:12 pm

Hugo Stiglitz wrote:After the first line, the scoring drops off SIGNIFICANTLY. Getting someone like Iginla or Setoguchi is of paramount importance. Getting a player like that fixes another weakness which is making the third line better. If the Pens acquire Iginla, who ever falls to the third line will make that line much better. Dupuis has emerged as true top-six winger and there's obviously no need for Sid to upgrade, but getting an Iginla-type moves Dupuis down to the third and gives us a pretty lethal third line. If the Penguins were to acquire a Setoguchi or Ott, those are two players who could play on the third line and make it lethal.


jordan staal makes a 3rd line lethal. these other guys make it better, but not as much as you think.
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Re: What do the Penguins need?

Postby FLPensFan on Mon Mar 11, 2013 4:19 pm

saints11 wrote:There are those who will tell you that Harrington is the purest gem of all the young defensemen; so I doubt he will be the first moved. I would much rather move Niskanen or Engelland. The need is to acquire size for the D pairings, that means guys like Murray, Smid, Regehr, or Hainsey.
The other major problem is bottom 6 grit and the PK. We would have to be blind not to acknowledge the chemistry of the top line and be concerned about breaking it up; however, I still feel that Duper is playing up and benefits mostly from the work of Sid and Kuny. Duper gives us an immediate upgrade to the 3rd line, which could solve many problems there. Also, by moving Duper off the top line might give him greater focus for the PK. You don't just move him off that line for anyone, a finisher like Iggy justifies it.
For me; I'd move what is necessary to secure Iggy. Move a package of Niskanen, Kennedy, Glass, and a pick to San Jose for Murray, Clowe, and a pick; and Bortuzzo and Engelland to Edmonton for Smid.
D pairings: Orpik and Martin; Letang and Smid; Despres and Murray/Eaton
Lines:Kunitz--Crosby--Iggy; Bennett--Malkin--Neal; Cooke--Sutter--Dupuis; Clowe--Jeffrey--Adams


The ranking of the young defensemen is probably debatable, but the 3 sources I reviewed for prospects, Harrington was ranked the lowest in all 3. Engelland isn't going to fetch you much of a return, maybe 4th line grit player, that's about it. Niskanen has salary, and is kind of in limbo in terms of his place. Some see him as a bottom pair, some see him as a 3-4.

If the Pens could only make one move, Smid would be the move to make IMO. I've read some reports even today that Ryan Whitney will definitely be moved, and oddly, the Oilers have had no talks with Smid about extending him. Smid is only 27 is the type of d-man they need (and the Pens should want).

I think to get Iginila, Murray, Clowe, and Smid would cost more than Niskanen, Bortuzzo, Engelland, Kennedy, Glass and a pick. I don't see any way possible to not get one of the "better" players available, Smid, Iginla, etc, without the Pens giving up one of their prospects (Morrow, Pouliot, Dumoulin, Harrington, Maata, Despres).
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Re: What do the Penguins need?

Postby saints11 on Mon Mar 11, 2013 4:36 pm

FLPensFan wrote:
saints11 wrote:There are those who will tell you that Harrington is the purest gem of all the young defensemen; so I doubt he will be the first moved. I would much rather move Niskanen or Engelland. The need is to acquire size for the D pairings, that means guys like Murray, Smid, Regehr, or Hainsey.
The other major problem is bottom 6 grit and the PK. We would have to be blind not to acknowledge the chemistry of the top line and be concerned about breaking it up; however, I still feel that Duper is playing up and benefits mostly from the work of Sid and Kuny. Duper gives us an immediate upgrade to the 3rd line, which could solve many problems there. Also, by moving Duper off the top line might give him greater focus for the PK. You don't just move him off that line for anyone, a finisher like Iggy justifies it.
For me; I'd move what is necessary to secure Iggy. Move a package of Niskanen, Kennedy, Glass, and a pick to San Jose for Murray, Clowe, and a pick; and Bortuzzo and Engelland to Edmonton for Smid.
D pairings: Orpik and Martin; Letang and Smid; Despres and Murray/Eaton
Lines:Kunitz--Crosby--Iggy; Bennett--Malkin--Neal; Cooke--Sutter--Dupuis; Clowe--Jeffrey--Adams


The ranking of the young defensemen is probably debatable, but the 3 sources I reviewed for prospects, Harrington was ranked the lowest in all 3. Engelland isn't going to fetch you much of a return, maybe 4th line grit player, that's about it. Niskanen has salary, and is kind of in limbo in terms of his place. Some see him as a bottom pair, some see him as a 3-4.

If the Pens could only make one move, Smid would be the move to make IMO. I've read some reports even today that Ryan Whitney will definitely be moved, and oddly, the Oilers have had no talks with Smid about extending him. Smid is only 27 is the type of d-man they need (and the Pens should want).

I think to get Iginila, Murray, Clowe, and Smid would cost more than Niskanen, Bortuzzo, Engelland, Kennedy, Glass and a pick. I don't see any way possible to not get one of the "better" players available, Smid, Iginla, etc, without the Pens giving up one of their prospects (Morrow, Pouliot, Dumoulin, Harrington, Maata, Despres).
Murray, Clowe, and Smid are all UFA's; as is Iginla. Any trade speculation listed did not include Iginla, who I would expect would demand a #1 pick, plus a D prospect. Smid is someone that could be resigned, not sure about Murray who might just be a rental. Clowe and Iginla are different stories.
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Re: What do the Penguins need?

Postby Hugo Stiglitz on Mon Mar 11, 2013 4:50 pm

shmenguin wrote:
Hugo Stiglitz wrote:After the first line, the scoring drops off SIGNIFICANTLY. Getting someone like Iginla or Setoguchi is of paramount importance. Getting a player like that fixes another weakness which is making the third line better. If the Pens acquire Iginla, who ever falls to the third line will make that line much better. Dupuis has emerged as true top-six winger and there's obviously no need for Sid to upgrade, but getting an Iginla-type moves Dupuis down to the third and gives us a pretty lethal third line. If the Penguins were to acquire a Setoguchi or Ott, those are two players who could play on the third line and make it lethal.


jordan staal makes a 3rd line lethal. these other guys make it better, but not as much as you think.


Moving Dupuis to the third line makes that line significantly better. This only happens if the Pens get a winger like Iginla for the first line.

Setoguchi is a 20+ goal player and has a solid two-way game. He makes the third line significantly better.
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Re: What do the Penguins need?

Postby joe icepick on Mon Mar 11, 2013 5:52 pm

saints11 wrote:There are those who will tell you that Harrington is the purest gem of all the young defensemen; so I doubt he will be the first moved. I would much rather move Niskanen or Engelland. The need is to acquire size for the D pairings, that means guys like Murray, Smid, Regehr, or Hainsey.
The other major problem is bottom 6 grit and the PK. We would have to be blind not to acknowledge the chemistry of the top line and be concerned about breaking it up; however, I still feel that Duper is playing up and benefits mostly from the work of Sid and Kuny. Duper gives us an immediate upgrade to the 3rd line, which could solve many problems there. Also, by moving Duper off the top line might give him greater focus for the PK. You don't just move him off that line for anyone, a finisher like Iggy justifies it.
For me; I'd move what is necessary to secure Iggy. Move a package of Niskanen, Kennedy, Glass, and a pick to San Jose for Murray, Clowe, and a pick; and Bortuzzo and Engelland to Edmonton for Smid.
D pairings: Orpik and Martin; Letang and Smid; Despres and Murray/Eaton
Lines:Kunitz--Crosby--Iggy; Bennett--Malkin--Neal; Cooke--Sutter--Dupuis; Clowe--Jeffrey--Adams


Does anyone know what we signed Glass for.
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Re: What do the Penguins need?

Postby Great58 on Mon Mar 11, 2013 6:36 pm

joe icepick wrote:
saints11 wrote:There are those who will tell you that Harrington is the purest gem of all the young defensemen; so I doubt he will be the first moved. I would much rather move Niskanen or Engelland. The need is to acquire size for the D pairings, that means guys like Murray, Smid, Regehr, or Hainsey.
The other major problem is bottom 6 grit and the PK. We would have to be blind not to acknowledge the chemistry of the top line and be concerned about breaking it up; however, I still feel that Duper is playing up and benefits mostly from the work of Sid and Kuny. Duper gives us an immediate upgrade to the 3rd line, which could solve many problems there. Also, by moving Duper off the top line might give him greater focus for the PK. You don't just move him off that line for anyone, a finisher like Iggy justifies it.
For me; I'd move what is necessary to secure Iggy. Move a package of Niskanen, Kennedy, Glass, and a pick to San Jose for Murray, Clowe, and a pick; and Bortuzzo and Engelland to Edmonton for Smid.
D pairings: Orpik and Martin; Letang and Smid; Despres and Murray/Eaton
Lines:Kunitz--Crosby--Iggy; Bennett--Malkin--Neal; Cooke--Sutter--Dupuis; Clowe--Jeffrey--Adams


Does anyone know what we signed Glass for.

What role he was expected to play, or for how much scratch? He makes $1.1 million this year and next.
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Re: What do the Penguins need?

Postby pens2005 on Mon Mar 11, 2013 6:45 pm

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Re: What do the Penguins need?

Postby Gaucho on Mon Mar 11, 2013 7:01 pm

Glorious Snapshot rant incoming.
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Re: What do the Penguins need?

Postby Hugo Stiglitz on Mon Mar 11, 2013 8:24 pm

Glass was brought in to do what Asham does, but provide a bit more offense and was also viewed as a someone who could be effective on the PK.

I think it's a shame really. I think Asham was mishandled here.
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Re: What do the Penguins need?

Postby NJ5934 on Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:10 pm

I don't understand all the poo pooing on Glass. While I never agreed with the decision to not resign Rupp, I think Glass has been the "safe/regular shift" enforcer everyone around hear wanted. The guy gets 1.1 to hit, fight and play on the PK. What else do you want the guy to do.....he skates 5 minutes a night with CFA?!?

I'm all for adding some more grit but I see no reason to do so at the expense of Glass.
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Re: What do the Penguins need?

Postby FLPensFan on Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:15 pm

joe icepick wrote:Does anyone know what we signed Glass for.


There are many ways to answer this question:

1. A cheaper replacement to Asham.
2. Someone to provide grit and also kill penalties (which Asham didn't)
3. Two years, 1.1mil per year

Or, the answer I find myself referencing most oftern
4. I ask myself that same question every game. He doesn't seem to do much of what was expected.
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Re: What do the Penguins need?

Postby NJ5934 on Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:16 pm

FYI: Rupp has 3 points thus far this season and Asham has 1. Both are averaging less time than Glass.
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Re: What do the Penguins need?

Postby FLPensFan on Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:23 pm

NJ5934 wrote:I don't understand all the poo pooing on Glass. While I never agreed with the decision to not resign Rupp, I think Glass has been the "safe/regular shift" enforcer everyone around hear wanted. The guy gets 1.1 to hit, fight and play on the PK. What else do you want the guy to do.....he skates 5 minutes a night with CFA?!?

I'm all for adding some more grit but I see no reason to do so at the expense of Glass.


I haven't been impressed with him. I envisioned a guy kinda like Matt Cooke before the suspensions. A guy who went out and hit every shift and was tough to play against. I just haven't seen it the way I expected. That said, his numbers are a bit better than I expected. He leads the Pens in hits, and averages about 2-3 hits per game. He is 20th overall with 69 hits this season. Matt Martin of the Isles and Steve Ott with BUF are 1-2 in hits, and are getting about 5-6 hits per game.

I guess I expected someone more like a young Colby Armstrong with some big hits now and then, or like Tyler Wright/Jarkko Rutuu, who got under the oppositions skin.
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Re: What do the Penguins need?

Postby NJ5934 on Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:36 pm

FLPensFan wrote:
NJ5934 wrote:I don't understand all the poo pooing on Glass. While I never agreed with the decision to not resign Rupp, I think Glass has been the "safe/regular shift" enforcer everyone around hear wanted. The guy gets 1.1 to hit, fight and play on the PK. What else do you want the guy to do.....he skates 5 minutes a night with CFA?!?

I'm all for adding some more grit but I see no reason to do so at the expense of Glass.


I haven't been impressed with him. I envisioned a guy kinda like Matt Cooke before the suspensions. A guy who went out and hit every shift and was tough to play against. I just haven't seen it the way I expected. That said, his numbers are a bit better than I expected. He leads the Pens in hits, and averages about 2-3 hits per game. He is 20th overall with 69 hits this season. Matt Martin of the Isles and Steve Ott with BUF are 1-2 in hits, and are getting about 5-6 hits per game.

I guess I expected someone more like a young Colby Armstrong with some big hits now and then, or like Tyler Wright/Jarkko Rutuu, who got under the oppositions skin.


I see what you're saying. I saw a couple Jets games last year, so I didn't really expect a stand out guy. Just the fact that he is hitting and on occasion standing up and fighting is enough for me. I can't recall a game recently, even at home, where the Pens actually outhit another team, so Glass and the limited physicality he brings, is worth his weight in gold.

As much as I'd love to see Steve Ott on the Pens, I just don't see the Pens carrying a Ott/Ruutu type character with DB behind the bench.
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Re: What do the Penguins need?

Postby JoseCuervo on Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:04 pm

Digitalgypsy66 wrote:I'm thinking a lot of the issues are with puck possession. Sustained forecheck and cycling by the bottom six seem to be problematic, so that's where I would look to improve. A good role player with speed who can cycle.

As we all know, you don't give up goals when you play hard in the offensive zone. Sustained pressure leads to PP opportunities and so on.


I think this is pretty much spot on. Our bottom two lines need to sustain time in the offensive zone. Right now they can't keep it in, and they aren't going to score on the rush.
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