Media-types have Letang as front-runner for Norris

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Re: Media-types have Letang as front-runner for Norris

Postby Idoit40fans on Thu Mar 14, 2013 9:43 am

IMFC wrote:
Idoit40fans wrote:You are showing that a player can get overpaid without winning a trophy, not that a trophy doesn't increase their value. You are proving things that have nothing to do with this thread and that are blatantly obvious to anyone who has casually followed a professional sport for a season.


And you have any cases to the contrary?

Waiting on examples of Norris winners who are overpaid strictly because they won . . . Waiting . . . .


What?
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Re: Media-types have Letang as front-runner for Norris

Postby Desiato on Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:03 am

Whether Letang wins the Norris or not, he's definitely going to be eligible for a big contract if he continues to play as well as he has. The Pens and Letang will both have decisions to make, but there's no point in stressing about that now; let's cross that bridge when we get there.

Rooting against him for the Norris due to future contract leverage is a bit silly though.

On the topic of his defensive competency, I still say that his apparent shortcomings are actually shortcomings of the system. I think it puts the Pens defense in an abnormally high number of challenging situations. Lidstrom might have looked bad some nights playing on this team.
Last edited by Desiato on Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Media-types have Letang as front-runner for Norris

Postby Idoit40fans on Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:10 am

Desiato wrote:Rooting against him for the Norris due to future contract leverage is a bit silly though.


I agree with this. You don't root against your own players for the sake of a contract.

I also feel that his shortcomings are more a product of what he's being told to do rather than actual problems.
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Re: Media-types have Letang as front-runner for Norris

Postby brwi on Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:45 am

pfim wrote:Chara's still better than both of them :pop:


Yes, and it's rather obvious too.
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Re: Media-types have Letang as front-runner for Norris

Postby brwi on Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:50 am

Idoit40fans wrote:
IMFC wrote:
Idoit40fans wrote:You are showing that a player can get overpaid without winning a trophy, not that a trophy doesn't increase their value. You are proving things that have nothing to do with this thread and that are blatantly obvious to anyone who has casually followed a professional sport for a season.


And you have any cases to the contrary?

Waiting on examples of Norris winners who are overpaid strictly because they won . . . Waiting . . . .


What?


Seems pretty easy to understand to me: which d-man that won a Norris got overpaid simply for winning the Norris Trophy?
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Re: Media-types have Letang as front-runner for Norris

Postby Idoit40fans on Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:53 am

brwi wrote:
Idoit40fans wrote:
IMFC wrote:
Idoit40fans wrote:You are showing that a player can get overpaid without winning a trophy, not that a trophy doesn't increase their value. You are proving things that have nothing to do with this thread and that are blatantly obvious to anyone who has casually followed a professional sport for a season.


And you have any cases to the contrary?

Waiting on examples of Norris winners who are overpaid strictly because they won . . . Waiting . . . .


What?


Seems pretty easy to understand to me: which d-man that won a Norris got overpaid simply for winning the Norris Trophy?


Which one had a contract coming off a Norris? None of them. Lidstrom resigned the same $7 million deal each of the last several contracts he signed. Highest paid defenseman in the league each time.
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Re: Media-types have Letang as front-runner for Norris

Postby JoseCuervo on Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:57 am

Idoit40fans wrote:
brwi wrote:
Idoit40fans wrote:
IMFC wrote:
Idoit40fans wrote:You are showing that a player can get overpaid without winning a trophy, not that a trophy doesn't increase their value. You are proving things that have nothing to do with this thread and that are blatantly obvious to anyone who has casually followed a professional sport for a season.


And you have any cases to the contrary?

Waiting on examples of Norris winners who are overpaid strictly because they won . . . Waiting . . . .


What?


Seems pretty easy to understand to me: which d-man that won a Norris got overpaid simply for winning the Norris Trophy?


Which one had a contract coming off a Norris? None of them.


Duncan Keith? Did he resign before he got the norris or after?
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Re: Media-types have Letang as front-runner for Norris

Postby Idoit40fans on Thu Mar 14, 2013 11:00 am

He signed in the middle of the season either during the season or the season before winning it. Pretty sure it was around the turn of the year, the season he won it.
Last edited by Idoit40fans on Thu Mar 14, 2013 11:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Media-types have Letang as front-runner for Norris

Postby pfim on Thu Mar 14, 2013 11:00 am

Keith re-signed before the award was given.

I don't really think personal awards have more influence on a player's salary than his abilities and free agent demand.
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Re: Media-types have Letang as front-runner for Norris

Postby mikey287 on Thu Mar 14, 2013 11:01 am

Erik Karlsson?

Keith was signed in December 2009, he won the Norris later that season.
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Re: Media-types have Letang as front-runner for Norris

Postby tfrizz on Thu Mar 14, 2013 11:12 am

mikey287 wrote:Erik Karlsson?


:thumb:

Karlsson's cap hit was $1.3-million last season. Now, he was very clearly due for a raise from the Senators just like Letang will be from the Penguins. However, I do believe his cap hit would've been more in the $4.5- to $5-million range had he not won the Norris.

It's not that I don't want to see Letang win the Norris. I want to see a Penguin win every trophy out there! But winning the Norris, just like winning any major award, is going to give Letang more leverage when it comes to contract talks, which typically means a higher price.
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Re: Media-types have Letang as front-runner for Norris

Postby Idoit40fans on Thu Mar 14, 2013 11:16 am

Karlsson was re-signed the week before(maybe just the day before? Certainly before being awarded) the Trophies were announced. I guess they knew already though?
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Re: Media-types have Letang as front-runner for Norris

Postby pfim on Thu Mar 14, 2013 11:20 am

tfrizz wrote:
mikey287 wrote:Erik Karlsson?


:thumb:

Karlsson's cap hit was $1.3-million last season. Now, he was very clearly due for a raise from the Senators just like Letang will be from the Penguins. However, I do believe his cap hit would've been more in the $4.5- to $5-million range had he not won the Norris.

It's not that I don't want to see Letang win the Norris. I want to see a Penguin win every trophy out there! But winning the Norris, just like winning any major award, is going to give Letang more leverage when it comes to contract talks, which typically means a higher price.


Perhaps, but then you look at Drew Doughty's contract.
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Re: Media-types have Letang as front-runner for Norris

Postby mikey287 on Thu Mar 14, 2013 11:22 am

I'm not sure I buy that Karlsson was looking at getting docked nearly a third or a quarter of his pay if he didn't win the trophy itself...

The results were:
1. Erik Karlsson - 1069 voting points
2. Shea Weber - 1057
3. Zdeno Chara - 950

So, literally, if a guy and his friend read brwi's post before voting and went, "yeah, defensive guys are better" and took their two first place votes away from Karlsson (enabling Weber to win), Karlsson's new contract goes from 7 years, $45.5 million to 7 years, $31.5 million...he stood to lose $14 million on a couple of votes..? That seems kind of far-fetched, no?

I'm gonna stick with my original theory that just being involved in the Norris discussion is good enough, winning the trophy or finish 2nd or 5th or 8th, doesn't really matter all that much...if you can play, you can play.
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Re: Media-types have Letang as front-runner for Norris

Postby Odd Man Rush on Thu Mar 14, 2013 1:34 pm

jimreb wrote:I think people on here seriously undervalue the talents of one Kris Letang.


I agree. Sometimes, when I read the off-the-wall observations of many of our fans, I seriously wonder if we're even talking about the same sport?

Look, Kris Letang has holes in his game and he is never going to make anyone forget about Nik Lidstrom or Bobby Orr. His decision making and his positioning can be erratic at times. However, to call him a "mediocre defenseman" or to assert that he's not even the best D on his own team, well, that's just sheer nonsense.

Letang can skate as well as just about any D in the league. He also usually makes a good first pass out of his own zone. Additionally, Letang has terrific vision and he often generates odd man rushes for the Penguins though his assortment of skills. In his own end, the guy is strong, tenacious and feisty. I'm sorry but that is a TREMENDOUS package that VERY few players possess and I'll live with the occasional bad decision to reap its rewards.

In my mind, Letang is OBVIOUSLY the Pens' third most valuable asset behind Crosby and Malkin. To be honest, I can't even think of anyone who is close to challenging him for that spot - including Fleury and Neal.
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Re: Media-types have Letang as front-runner for Norris

Postby pcm on Thu Mar 14, 2013 6:17 pm

The Penguins have never had a defenseman on Letang's level. He's IMO the most dynamic guy playing the blueline in the league. There are others with more skill / ability in any one area, but Letang is the total package. As he matures, he is only going to get better. Expect him to sign a $50 million dollar contract over 8 years.

I've been critical of Shero's drafting philosophy, but I have to say I am really excited to see at top 6 of
Letang-Despres
Morrow-Harrington
Bortuzzo-Doumoulin

Of course, the chances of this ever happening are slim to none... but I'd much rather trade Pouliout or Maatta then any of above mentioned.
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Re: Media-types have Letang as front-runner for Norris

Postby Gaucho on Thu Mar 14, 2013 6:28 pm

pcm wrote:The Penguins have never had a defenseman on Letang's level. He's IMO the most dynamic guy playing the blueline in the league. There are others with more skill / ability in any one area, but Letang is the total package. As he matures, he is only going to get better. Expect him to sign a $50 million dollar contract over 8 years.

I've been critical of Shero's drafting philosophy, but I have to say I am really excited to see at top 6 of
Letang-Despres
Morrow-Harrington
Bortuzzo-Doumoulin

Of course, the chances of this ever happening are slim to none... but I'd much rather trade Pouliout or Maatta then any of above mentioned.


You'd rather trade Pouliot or Maata than Bortuzzo or Dumoulin?
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Re: Media-types have Letang as front-runner for Norris

Postby pcm on Thu Mar 14, 2013 6:47 pm

Not becuase I think they're better, but because the return on Pouliot or Maatta will be higher, plus Bort and Dumoulin play a style that is much needed on this team. I think they could be a shutdown, PKing, crease-clearing pair as soon as next year.
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Re: Media-types have Letang as front-runner for Norris

Postby Gaucho on Thu Mar 14, 2013 6:55 pm

Gotcha.
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Re: Media-types have Letang as front-runner for Norris

Postby MRandall25 on Thu Mar 14, 2013 7:00 pm

pcm wrote:The Penguins have never had a defenseman on Letang's level.


Paul Coffey?
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Re: Media-types have Letang as front-runner for Norris

Postby brwi on Thu Mar 14, 2013 7:06 pm

MRandall25 wrote:
pcm wrote:The Penguins have never had a defenseman on Letang's level.


Paul Coffey?


Letang reminds me a lot of Randy Carlyle.
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Re: Media-types have Letang as front-runner for Norris

Postby joopen on Thu Mar 14, 2013 9:52 pm

He was really good again tonight. His confidence is through the roof right now and you can see it in some of the plays he makes like standing up on the blue line in a situation that could create an odd man rush and just taking the puck right off the Leafs players stick
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