Media-types have Letang as front-runner for Norris

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Re: Media-types have Letang as front-runner for Norris

Postby Shakes on Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:04 pm

If the Pens continue their recent improved defensive play, and his +/- stays up (whether you think the stat means something or not), I could see it. He has a huge impact on every game and the points speak for themselves. I've heard the "but the Pens are 20+ in GA" argument, but Ottawa was similar, and EK still won.
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Re: Media-types have Letang as front-runner for Norris

Postby sniper on Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:06 pm

mikey287 wrote:It's not that Letang can't...but Erik Karlsson's season was a historically great one in terms of offense. Just ridiculous.

In fact, the Finnish season ended recently and Karlsson played there during the lockout, so obviously he left when the NHL started up when the season ended, he still led all d-men in the league in points despite leaving at the halfway point. In fact, his points per game average was only challenged by a couple forwards in that league...a league that I would rate around 5th in the world.


You do know that Letang's current points per game is higher than Karlsson's from last year right? 1.12 compared to .96 That works out to almost a 92 point regular season compared to Karlssons 79 points.

Offensively Letang is destorying Karlsson's historically great season. I think he's better defensively than him as well. I'd be shocked if Letang didn't win and the only justifiable reason I can see for not giving it to him is Crosby.
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Re: Media-types have Letang as front-runner for Norris

Postby Grunthy on Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:13 pm

You're right. Crosby will win the Norris... :pop:
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Re: Media-types have Letang as front-runner for Norris

Postby relantel on Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:15 pm

though by in large, Letang's pair hasn't been on the ice with the Crosby line.
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Re: Media-types have Letang as front-runner for Norris

Postby mikey287 on Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:16 pm

sniper wrote:
mikey287 wrote:It's not that Letang can't...but Erik Karlsson's season was a historically great one in terms of offense. Just ridiculous.

In fact, the Finnish season ended recently and Karlsson played there during the lockout, so obviously he left when the NHL started up when the season ended, he still led all d-men in the league in points despite leaving at the halfway point. In fact, his points per game average was only challenged by a couple forwards in that league...a league that I would rate around 5th in the world.


You do know that Letang's current points per game is higher than Karlsson's from last year right? 1.12 compared to .96 That works out to almost a 92 point regular season compared to Karlssons 79 points.

Offensively Letang is destorying Karlsson's historically great season. I think he's better defensively than him as well. I'd be shocked if Letang didn't win and the only justifiable reason I can see for not giving it to him is Crosby.


I'm aware. The part that was impressive about Karlsson's season wasn't so much the points scored, but the domination of his peers. Let's see if Letang can pull away in a similar fashion. He finished top-10 overall in the NHL in scoring and finished with 47% more points than the next closest d-man! All that while doing it with goals per game being nearly a half a goal less per game (it was 5.32 in 2012; this year, the Eastern Conference is at 5.74, so there are more points to be had).

To say he's destroying Karlsson's historically great season is disingenuous at this point. Let's see what it looks like at the finish line.
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Re: Media-types have Letang as front-runner for Norris

Postby Sam's Drunk Dog on Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:16 pm

relantel wrote:though by in large, Letang's pair hasn't been on the ice with the Crosby line.

Some might say Letang doesn't have a pair.
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Re: Media-types have Letang as front-runner for Norris

Postby Gaucho on Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:17 pm

Should Letang win the Norris there will no doubt be a thread on here about how he should never have won it. Sad.
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Re: Media-types have Letang as front-runner for Norris

Postby Lt. Dish on Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:18 pm

NashvilleCat wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:
mikey287 wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:Would be really easy to fix by creating the Bobby Orr trophy for highest scoring defenseman, and leaving Norris trophy for best defensive play by a defenseman. Should have been done years ago.


The Coffey Cup?


The Bourque Bowl?

The Bobby Orb?


"Ahb" in New English
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Re: Media-types have Letang as front-runner for Norris

Postby sniper on Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:28 pm

mikey287 wrote:
sniper wrote:
mikey287 wrote:It's not that Letang can't...but Erik Karlsson's season was a historically great one in terms of offense. Just ridiculous.

In fact, the Finnish season ended recently and Karlsson played there during the lockout, so obviously he left when the NHL started up when the season ended, he still led all d-men in the league in points despite leaving at the halfway point. In fact, his points per game average was only challenged by a couple forwards in that league...a league that I would rate around 5th in the world.


You do know that Letang's current points per game is higher than Karlsson's from last year right? 1.12 compared to .96 That works out to almost a 92 point regular season compared to Karlssons 79 points.

Offensively Letang is destorying Karlsson's historically great season. I think he's better defensively than him as well. I'd be shocked if Letang didn't win and the only justifiable reason I can see for not giving it to him is Crosby.


I'm aware. The part that was impressive about Karlsson's season wasn't so much the points scored, but the domination of his peers. Let's see if Letang can pull away in a similar fashion. He finished top-10 overall in the NHL in scoring and finished with 47% more points than the next closest d-man! All that while doing it with goals per game being nearly a half a goal less per game (it was 5.32 in 2012; this year, the Eastern Conference is at 5.74, so there are more points to be had).

To say he's destroying Karlsson's historically great season is disingenuous at this point. Let's see what it looks like at the finish line.


Karlsson only dominated his peers because like this year most of his peers were injured for large parts of the season. Letangs point per game last year put him at 67 for the year only 11 behind Karlsson. Byfuglein wasn't far behind. If you are going to use that as a reason for Karlsson last year it also holds true this year, when Letang already has an 8 point gap in less games played.
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Re: Media-types have Letang as front-runner for Norris

Postby pfim on Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:39 pm

Chara's still better than both of them :pop:
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Re: Media-types have Letang as front-runner for Norris

Postby mikey287 on Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:42 pm

We see what we want to see. Byfuglien is the worst player in the league defensively, so even if he had 10 more points than Karlsson, he didn't deserve it. But the fact of the matter is, what happened, happened. Karlsson destroyed his peers. Only Orr, Coffey and Kelly have dominated their peers in such a fashion in a single season all-time, so it has significance, believe me.

If Byfuglien wasn't mentally and physically obese, I'm sure he could have stayed healthy...it's not Karlsson's fault...

We'll just see if Letang can do it, no sense bellyaching over it after a couple of dozen games...this still falls under "hot streak", not "historically great season"
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Re: Media-types have Letang as front-runner for Norris

Postby pfim on Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:48 pm

What is impressive about Letang's production so far is the amount of even strength points.
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Re: Media-types have Letang as front-runner for Norris

Postby Gaucho on Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:57 pm

Yeah, what about those pathetic secondary assists?
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Re: Media-types have Letang as front-runner for Norris

Postby penmyst on Wed Mar 13, 2013 1:15 pm

FLPensFan wrote:Would be really easy to fix by creating the Bobby Orr trophy for highest scoring defenseman, and leaving Norris trophy for best defensive play by a defenseman. Should have been done years ago.


Yep.

Letang is not even a middle of the pack "defense"man.

He does rack up the points, go on the rush, and make skill plays in the offensive zone.

When I think Norris, I will always think of Lidstrom. Not only contributed offensively, but was generally known for his sound defense. Of which Letang has never, and won't THIS year, be known for.
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Re: Media-types have Letang as front-runner for Norris

Postby Gaucho on Wed Mar 13, 2013 1:22 pm

penmyst wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:Would be really easy to fix by creating the Bobby Orr trophy for highest scoring defenseman, and leaving Norris trophy for best defensive play by a defenseman. Should have been done years ago.


Yep.

Letang is not even a middle of the pack "defense"man.



Hmmm...
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Re: Media-types have Letang as front-runner for Norris

Postby mikey287 on Wed Mar 13, 2013 1:32 pm

I'm a stickler for defense and all...but calling Letang below average defensively is curious...I don't buy that. He's no Lidstrom, sure, few were (though he is grossly undersold as "generally known for his sound defense", which raises some questions in my mind right there) but over the grand scheme of things, Letang has been pretty good defensively in his time here...not always the prettiest belle of the ball, but he usually manages to get the job done...
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Re: Media-types have Letang as front-runner for Norris

Postby Shakes on Wed Mar 13, 2013 1:37 pm

penmyst wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:Would be really easy to fix by creating the Bobby Orr trophy for highest scoring defenseman, and leaving Norris trophy for best defensive play by a defenseman. Should have been done years ago.


Yep.

Letang is not even a middle of the pack "defense"man.

He does rack up the points, go on the rush, and make skill plays in the offensive zone.

When I think Norris, I will always think of Lidstrom. Not only contributed offensively, but was generally known for his sound defense. Of which Letang has never, and won't THIS year, be known for.


Lol wut. Just a bit harsh on Tanger.
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Re: Media-types have Letang as front-runner for Norris

Postby SolidSnake on Wed Mar 13, 2013 1:39 pm

meow wrote:Why do people think Mike Green won a Norris? Did not happen

Don't you remember it was the year Cooke won the lady byng
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Re: Media-types have Letang as front-runner for Norris

Postby Mongoose87 on Wed Mar 13, 2013 1:50 pm

mikey287 wrote:I'm a stickler for defense and all...but calling Letang below average defensively is curious...I don't buy that. He's no Lidstrom, sure, few were (though he is grossly undersold as "generally known for his sound defense", which raises some questions in my mind right there) but over the grand scheme of things, Letang has been pretty good defensively in his time here...not always the prettiest belle of the ball, but he usually manages to get the job done...

Would you agree that his positioning isn't amazing, but his athletic ability allows him to compensate?
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Re: Media-types have Letang as front-runner for Norris

Postby mikey287 on Wed Mar 13, 2013 2:27 pm

Mongoose87 wrote:
mikey287 wrote:I'm a stickler for defense and all...but calling Letang below average defensively is curious...I don't buy that. He's no Lidstrom, sure, few were (though he is grossly undersold as "generally known for his sound defense", which raises some questions in my mind right there) but over the grand scheme of things, Letang has been pretty good defensively in his time here...not always the prettiest belle of the ball, but he usually manages to get the job done...

Would you agree that his positioning isn't amazing, but his athletic ability allows him to compensate?


Agree with it? I'd hold a "Letang isn't great positionally but his recovery ability makes him pretty good defensively" parade in the middle of the city tomorrow if I had the ability. I'm sure if you search my name and "recovery ability" you'll produce more than a few results re: Letang. You're spot on. His lateral mobility and closing speed are relied upon heavily for his defense and he makes it work pretty well I must say. It's a little rough around the edges, but if you guys saw some of the other offensive d-men in the league on a nightly basis, you'd be willing to almost double Letang's salary on the spot...
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Re: Media-types have Letang as front-runner for Norris

Postby Penspal on Wed Mar 13, 2013 3:04 pm

Pavel Bure wrote:
Penspal wrote:If Mike Green and Erik Karlsson can win, then why can't Kris Letang? I understand what defence has historically meant, but these players redefine the position.

- 27 pts in 24 games, leads all defenceman in scoring by NINE points
- plus 11 (tied for 5th best)
- avgs over 26 mins a game (6th most)
- only 8 penalty minutes (for a supposed hothead, he's keeping his cool)
- While not a tall player, he's strong as an Ox and has crushed players this year.
- skates like the wind and has erased chances due to his speed

He's been very consistent while having various D partners all year. Whether he wins or not, he's very worthy of Norris consideration

Mike Green never won.


Sorry, I was fooled into believing the unbelievable by a previous poster's /sarcasm/
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Re: Media-types have Letang as front-runner for Norris

Postby Desiato on Wed Mar 13, 2013 4:20 pm

I can definite buy-in to Letang as the leading Norris candidate. He's a unique talent. His defensive skills are awesome. I think the style the Pens play makes his defense look worse than it is sometimes; but on the other side of the coin, the Pens style of play showcases his overall game and puck control/movement skills.

What's crazy about how good Letang has played, is that I think he's only playing to 75% of his potential. He's got all the tools to be as dominant on the PP as Gonchar or Zubov, yet only has 6 assists (22% of his points) on the PP this season. Karlsson had 36% of his points on the PP last year. When Mike Green scored 31G, 58% of them came on the PP, along with 52% of his points.
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Re: Media-types have Letang as front-runner for Norris

Postby jimreb on Wed Mar 13, 2013 4:27 pm

I think people on here seriously undervalue the talents of one Kris Letang.
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Re: Media-types have Letang as front-runner for Norris

Postby Luckybreak on Wed Mar 13, 2013 4:30 pm

mikey287 wrote:
Mongoose87 wrote:
mikey287 wrote:I'm a stickler for defense and all...but calling Letang below average defensively is curious...I don't buy that. He's no Lidstrom, sure, few were (though he is grossly undersold as "generally known for his sound defense", which raises some questions in my mind right there) but over the grand scheme of things, Letang has been pretty good defensively in his time here...not always the prettiest belle of the ball, but he usually manages to get the job done...

Would you agree that his positioning isn't amazing, but his athletic ability allows him to compensate?


Agree with it? I'd hold a "Letang isn't great positionally but his recovery ability makes him pretty good defensively" parade in the middle of the city tomorrow if I had the ability. I'm sure if you search my name and "recovery ability" you'll produce more than a few results re: Letang. You're spot on. His lateral mobility and closing speed are relied upon heavily for his defense and he makes it work pretty well I must say. It's a little rough around the edges, but if you guys saw some of the other offensive d-men in the league on a nightly basis, you'd be willing to almost double Letang's salary on the spot...


When you say 'rough around the edges' Letang is the last guy I think of because his skating just looks so damn good! I agree his mental lapses are often rougher than sandpaper - Letang will never have a Lidstrom like thought process, but his physical attributes bail him out.

Also agree with the general sentiment that D deserve a 'true' award to go along with the points hardware, the arguement for best defensive D would be great (for those of us who appreciate such things!).
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Re: Media-types have Letang as front-runner for Norris

Postby MRandall25 on Wed Mar 13, 2013 4:41 pm

jimreb wrote:I think people on here seriously undervalue the talents of one Kris Letang.


Perhaps, but then he has plays like Boston's 2nd goal or a power play a game where you question what he's doing with said talents.
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