I'm beginning to think that GMRS...

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Re: I'm beginning to think that GMRS...

Postby tfrizz on Fri Mar 15, 2013 12:07 pm

slappybrown wrote:CAR knew he was signing a long term deal. It wasn't a trade for one year of Staal.


Yeah, they wouldn't have given up nearly as much without assurance that Staal would sign.
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Re: I'm beginning to think that GMRS...

Postby slappybrown on Fri Mar 15, 2013 12:09 pm

thehockeyguru wrote:
largegarlic wrote:I think the evaluation of the deal is pretty simple...

Jordan Staal > Brandon Sutter

Therefore, if neither Dumoulin nor Pouliot make it to the NHL, Canes win the deal.
If either Dumoulin or Pouliot become solid NHL d-men, Pens win the deal.
If both Dumoulin and Pouliot become solid NHL d-men, Pens win the deal by a wide margin.


I dont think anyone who plays Jordan Staal 6M a year can be called a winner.

Not having to read your Staal posts is unquestionably additional value to the Pens side in this trade, so maybe we can say the Pens won.
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Re: I'm beginning to think that GMRS...

Postby thehockeyguru on Fri Mar 15, 2013 12:12 pm

slappybrown wrote:
thehockeyguru wrote:
largegarlic wrote:I think the evaluation of the deal is pretty simple...

Jordan Staal > Brandon Sutter

Therefore, if neither Dumoulin nor Pouliot make it to the NHL, Canes win the deal.
If either Dumoulin or Pouliot become solid NHL d-men, Pens win the deal.
If both Dumoulin and Pouliot become solid NHL d-men, Pens win the deal by a wide margin.


I dont think anyone who plays Jordan Staal 6M a year can be called a winner.

Not having to read your Staal posts is unquestionably additional value to the Pens side in this trade, so maybe we can say the Pens won.


I'm pretty sure GMRS took that into consideration prior to the trade.
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Re: I'm beginning to think that GMRS...

Postby shafnutz05 on Fri Mar 15, 2013 12:14 pm

shmenguin wrote:you "get it". you don't agree with it.

also, based on your explanation, you don't agree with giving up assets for playoff rentals because of the lack of guarantee on your return. which means you must disagree with the hossa trade as well, obviously.


Shero wanted to re-sign Hossa. Re-signing Staal wasn't an option.
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Re: I'm beginning to think that GMRS...

Postby thehockeyguru on Fri Mar 15, 2013 12:17 pm

But in all seriousness, I dont think that Sutter's play has been that far of a drop off. You save more cap space in the short term, but ultimately if you end up trading Malkin Staal would have been better suited to fill the 2nd line center role LT. But at 6M a season I'm not sure that would have been beneficial to the team.
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Re: I'm beginning to think that GMRS...

Postby DesertPenguin on Fri Mar 15, 2013 12:50 pm

Rylan wrote:But it wasn't for 1 year. Sure, technically it was, but he signed that deal so shortly after that it is irrelevant.


Right, but if Jordan was so dead set on playing with his brother in Carolina, they could have waited out the year and signed him to the same contract while giving up no assets at all. The cost to have Jordan Staal one year sooner was Brandon Sutter, Brian Dumoulin and the 8th overall pick. That's a lot for one year of service.
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Re: I'm beginning to think that GMRS...

Postby slappybrown on Fri Mar 15, 2013 12:52 pm

thehockeyguru wrote:But in all seriousness, I dont think that Sutter's play has been that far of a drop off. You save more cap space in the short term, but ultimately if you end up trading Malkin Staal would have been better suited to fill the 2nd line center role LT. But at 6M a season I'm not sure that would have been beneficial to the team.


The third line and the PK have both been weakened. It's not that its Sutter's "fault" on both of those things, as Kennedy hasn't been great and I think Glass sucks on the PK, but yes, this team would be better with Staal versus Sutter. The possession metrics also support this.
Last edited by slappybrown on Fri Mar 15, 2013 12:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: I'm beginning to think that GMRS...

Postby slappybrown on Fri Mar 15, 2013 12:53 pm

DesertPenguin wrote:
Rylan wrote:But it wasn't for 1 year. Sure, technically it was, but he signed that deal so shortly after that it is irrelevant.


Right, but if Jordan was so dead set on playing with his brother in Carolina, they could have waited out the year and signed him to the same contract while giving up no assets at all. The cost to have Jordan Staal one year sooner was Brandon Sutter, Brian Dumoulin and the 8th overall pick. That's a lot for one year of service.

Maybe he changes his mind and stays here. Maybe they trade him to NYR to play with his other brother. Maybe the GM Rutherford gets fired because CAR w/o J. Staal this year isn't as good and he never gets to be around to sign him for nothing. It's just not so simple and linear.
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Re: I'm beginning to think that GMRS...

Postby DesertPenguin on Fri Mar 15, 2013 12:57 pm

slappybrown wrote:
DesertPenguin wrote:
Rylan wrote:But it wasn't for 1 year. Sure, technically it was, but he signed that deal so shortly after that it is irrelevant.


Right, but if Jordan was so dead set on playing with his brother in Carolina, they could have waited out the year and signed him to the same contract while giving up no assets at all. The cost to have Jordan Staal one year sooner was Brandon Sutter, Brian Dumoulin and the 8th overall pick. That's a lot for one year of service.

Maybe he changes his mind and stays here. Maybe they trade him to NYR to play with his other brother. Maybe the GM Rutherford gets fired because CAR w/o J. Staal this year isn't as good and he never gets to be around to sign him for nothing. It's just not so simple and linear.


I'll grant you that, but the bottom line, which has been said on this thread already, is Shero had almost no leverage in the situation, and still got a solid roster player, a high 1st round pick and a high end prospect. That is a steal.
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Re: I'm beginning to think that GMRS...

Postby slappybrown on Fri Mar 15, 2013 12:58 pm

Agreed. I think he did fantastic.
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Re: I'm beginning to think that GMRS...

Postby Idoit40fans on Fri Mar 15, 2013 1:00 pm

DesertPenguin wrote:
Rylan wrote:But it wasn't for 1 year. Sure, technically it was, but he signed that deal so shortly after that it is irrelevant.


Right, but if Jordan was so dead set on playing with his brother in Carolina, they could have waited out the year and signed him to the same contract while giving up no assets at all. The cost to have Jordan Staal one year sooner was Brandon Sutter, Brian Dumoulin and the 8th overall pick. That's a lot for one year of service.


And 3 years on the contract.
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