I'm beginning to think that GMRS...

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Re: I'm beginning to think that GMRS...

Postby sil on Fri Mar 15, 2013 7:52 am

Jordan Staal is the better player. He can do more physically than Sutter will ever be able to. Still, even had that been a long-negotiated deal, Staal for Sutter/Dumoulin/Pouliot would be a good trade off. The fact that Ray did it under the gun made it even more amazing. That deal was pretty much the best we could've hoped for in that situation.
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Re: I'm beginning to think that GMRS...

Postby RxBandit66 on Fri Mar 15, 2013 8:05 am

Staal is better, but Sutter has many of the same qualities, especially the tendency to score when it matters. But the Pens may end up doing quite well in the trade overall. Dumoulin and Pouliot may both turn out to be excellent players in the NHL for a long time.

It was a trade that helped both teams. Carolina gave up a lot for Staal, but he's an excellent player and it made perfect sense for them to acquire him.
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Re: I'm beginning to think that GMRS...

Postby Idoit40fans on Fri Mar 15, 2013 8:08 am

Its not like Carolina is an aging team that needs to reload through the draft. Hard to call them losers in that deal.
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Re: I'm beginning to think that GMRS...

Postby Hawkeynut on Fri Mar 15, 2013 8:17 am

GMRS is a very very good "hockey" trade general manager. This trade is no exception.
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Re: I'm beginning to think that GMRS...

Postby sil on Fri Mar 15, 2013 8:18 am

Idoit40fans wrote:Its not like Carolina is an aging team that needs to reload through the draft. Hard to call them losers in that deal.


Yeah...given how that went off, it was really good for both teams.
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Re: I'm beginning to think that GMRS...

Postby GaryRissling on Fri Mar 15, 2013 8:25 am

Putting it into perspective, Shero got more for Staal than Patrick got for Jagr.
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Re: I'm beginning to think that GMRS...

Postby newarenanow on Fri Mar 15, 2013 8:29 am

Staal was/is a great player. I think Shero got a good return in Sutter though although he pretty much had no leverage.

Pretty good overall trade for both sides.
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Re: I'm beginning to think that GMRS...

Postby Rylan on Fri Mar 15, 2013 8:37 am

With each thread I like to pretend you are taking a big breath in the middle of each sentence.
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Re: I'm beginning to think that GMRS...

Postby brwi on Fri Mar 15, 2013 9:03 am

penmyst wrote:Staal is a better player. More tools. When he does a better job of engaging Beast Mode more consistently, he'll hit a higher level than Sutter ever will.

But Sutter is a better fit for the Pens. He'll nestle right in that 3rd line C role, occasionally stepping up to 2nd line C as required by injuries. Solid, hockey-smart player with decent toolset. All at a much more manageable salary hit for the Pens.

This is the types of trades that make sense, as both teams get something they want/need. Instead of the typical fan-demanded trades where we give all our bad guys for all their great guys.


Exactly. This is a deal that everyone benefited from. Pens needed the extra cap room that Staal won't now be taking up because they are have a couple of big contracts coming up they have to deal with and the cap is going down next year. Staal didn't want to be a winger or 3rd line center for life and Carolina offered up a pretty good young player who is affordable to the Pens + more. Sutter isn't as good defensively as Staal but works pretty hard and has some offensive upside that he's obviously shown with some big goals recently.

Both teams are happy and so are the players involved.....hard to make those kind of deals in any sport. We're happy, they're happy....all good.
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Re: I'm beginning to think that GMRS...

Postby joe icepick on Fri Mar 15, 2013 9:04 am

You don't know who got the best in the deal. It's all up to the other players he aquired. If Doumolin and Pouliott dont make It to the show and all things stay the same Carolina I think wins.
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Re: I'm beginning to think that GMRS...

Postby Bioshock on Fri Mar 15, 2013 9:04 am

brwi wrote:
penmyst wrote:Staal is a better player. More tools. When he does a better job of engaging Beast Mode more consistently, he'll hit a higher level than Sutter ever will.

But Sutter is a better fit for the Pens. He'll nestle right in that 3rd line C role, occasionally stepping up to 2nd line C as required by injuries. Solid, hockey-smart player with decent toolset. All at a much more manageable salary hit for the Pens.

This is the types of trades that make sense, as both teams get something they want/need. Instead of the typical fan-demanded trades where we give all our bad guys for all their great guys.


Exactly. This is a deal that everyone benefited from. Pens needed the extra cap room that Staal won't now be taking up because they are have a couple of big contracts coming up they have to deal with and the cap is going down next year. Staal didn't want to be a winger or 3rd line center for life and Carolina offered up a pretty good young player who is affordable to the Pens + more. Sutter isn't as good defensively as Staal but works pretty hard and has some offensive upside that he's obviously shown with some big goals recently.

Both teams are happy and so are the players involved.....hard to make those kind of deals in any sport. We're happy, they're happy....all good.


And when this happens, GM's are more likely to trade with you again. Hey Dallas! We want Benn meow.
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Re: I'm beginning to think that GMRS...

Postby joe icepick on Fri Mar 15, 2013 9:06 am

Sutter hasn't really impressed me on faceoffs which is what we need him for. The other night he lost like six in a row in are end. Brutal
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Re: I'm beginning to think that GMRS...

Postby Gaucho on Fri Mar 15, 2013 9:13 am

GaryRissling wrote:Putting it into perspective, Shero got more for Staal than Patrick got for Jagr.


Jagr was only one of many salary dumps. Patrick probably wept a lot behind closed doors on those days.
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Re: I'm beginning to think that GMRS...

Postby thepittman on Fri Mar 15, 2013 9:20 am

Sutter is a better at scoring, so I think he makes a better second line center. Jordan Staal has been a fantasy letdown.
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Re: I'm beginning to think that GMRS...

Postby Pavel Bure on Fri Mar 15, 2013 9:25 am

Gaucho wrote:
GaryRissling wrote:Putting it into perspective, Shero got more for Staal than Patrick got for Jagr.


Jagr was only one of many salary dumps. Patrick probably wept a lot behind closed doors on those days.

You shut your mouth. Kris Beech was Ron Francis II.
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Re: I'm beginning to think that GMRS...

Postby thepittman on Fri Mar 15, 2013 9:31 am

If sutter was on the second line all season, he would be on track to dwarf Jordan Staal's numbers.
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Re: I'm beginning to think that GMRS...

Postby thepittman on Fri Mar 15, 2013 9:36 am

Code: Select all
    Player    Team   Pos    GP    G    A    P   +/-    PIM    PP    SH    GW    OT    S    S%    TOI/G    Sft/G    FO%
8   Brandon Sutter   PIT   C   28   8   5   13   +7   4   2   0   3   1   49   16.3   15:57   20.4          50.2
5   Jordan Staal   CAR   C   26   6   12   18   -3   18   0   0   1   0   63   9.5   19:40   26.2          51.4

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Re: I'm beginning to think that GMRS...

Postby Big Easy Pens Fan on Fri Mar 15, 2013 9:41 am

Guinness wrote:I'm not so sure Sutter wouldn't be a guy who will make a big play in the SCF.



Now it wasn't the SCF for sure, but the steal and subsequent goal between 2:10 and 2:03 of the third period Tuesday night was, indeed, pretty big, especially considering the opponent.

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Re: I'm beginning to think that GMRS...

Postby columbia on Fri Mar 15, 2013 9:42 am

That sequence was very Staalsian.....loved it.
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Re: I'm beginning to think that GMRS...

Postby Big Easy Pens Fan on Fri Mar 15, 2013 9:43 am

GaryRissling wrote:Putting it into perspective, Shero got more for Staal than Patrick got for Jagr.


Yea, something like that. :lol:

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Re: I'm beginning to think that GMRS...

Postby headh on Fri Mar 15, 2013 9:45 am

Staal has all the tools and is a budding star.

Sutter is great in his role

Madden always says that Shero should be building a team not a collection of stars. I think Sutter is an excellent part of a championship team.
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Re: I'm beginning to think that GMRS...

Postby Gaucho on Fri Mar 15, 2013 9:46 am

thepittman wrote:If sutter was on the second line all season, he would be on track to dwarf Jordan Staal's numbers.


I, uh, beg to differ. Or do you mean on the second line with Geno and Neal? Which, imo, would be a terrible idea.
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Re: I'm beginning to think that GMRS...

Postby thepittman on Fri Mar 15, 2013 9:50 am

Gaucho wrote:
thepittman wrote:If sutter was on the second line all season, he would be on track to dwarf Jordan Staal's numbers.


I, uh, beg to differ. Or do you mean on the second line with Geno and Neal? Which, imo, would be a terrible idea.

I mean taking Jeffery's spot on the second line if Malkin didn't exist.
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Re: I'm beginning to think that GMRS...

Postby slipshod on Fri Mar 15, 2013 9:57 am

Staal didn't use his size consistently enough in my opinion and I don't think he did that much when he was called on for 2nd line duties. Then again, he had occasional games where he looked unstoppable and engaged and his reach on the PK is where I think they miss him more than anywhere else.

I'm very happy with Sutter who looks like a real crunch time performer and gives a consistent effort. Plus there are other parts of this deal we haven't really seen in action yet that could make us look back in 5 years and say it was a GREAT move by Shero. As it is right now it was a very good one at the very least.
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Re: I'm beginning to think that GMRS...

Postby slappybrown on Fri Mar 15, 2013 10:16 am

shmenguin wrote:The logic in this thread seems to say that Sutter is a better fit for this team because he's a worse player that is comfortable on the 3rd line. That doesn't add up. Staal is a better fit because he's much more talented. Even when he's crammed into a 3rd line spot. Our 3rd line has been nothing this year, offensively, and about the same as last year defensively, IMO.

Staal is a better player and a better fit. Having said that, Sutter is a solid player, and Shero definitely got a great return for staal. But at the same, swapping staal for Sutter still may end up being a significant drop when we need someone to make a big play in game 4 of the SCF or something. So in that sense, I'm still not sure I like that we traded him - even though we would lose him anyways this summer.

I'm not sure I get what you mean -- are you saying your preference would have been to take another run at the Cup this season with Staal despite knowing you would lose him for nothing at the end of the season, in comparison to trading him this summer to get max value, which I think Shero did? That's pretty ballsy.

Given the situation, I think Shero did very well. He traded a major piece and filled him with a poor man's Jordan Staal plus the 8th pick in the draft. Staal is a superior player to Sutter offensively, defensively, and on the PK, but I'm happy with the trade.
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