2013-2014 Season Ticket Invoices

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Re: 2013-2014 Season Ticket Invoices

Postby moondart on Tue Mar 26, 2013 5:40 am

BurghersAndDogsSports wrote:
TheGhostofGoulet wrote:
moondart wrote:
newarenanow wrote:I don't think a 5% increase is that bad. Costs go up as well each and every year.


Mine went up nearly 9%. Its pretty ballsy too considering the shortened season. Isn't the cap going down too? Has the cap gone up 60% over the last 5 yrs?

Their costs must be out of control at 60% over 5 years.

60% increase in last 5 yrs....very ballsy indeed.


Ghost of Goulet here to bring some sense and logic to the masses. GOULET. Pens ticket prices may have increased by 60% over 5 seasons and you may consider that outrageous, but you need to lend some perspective to the situation instead of blindly ranting. The reason for the high % increase in their prices is only because their prices were at such a dramatically low level prior to the lockout.

The average NHL ticket price this season is $61.01. The Penguins average ticket price is $67.52. That's 10.6% above the NHL average. Considering there is a new arena, a winning product on the ice with the best player in the NHL and other stars surrounding him, the team consistently makes the playoffs, and the team consistently spends to the cap, I'd say ticket prices 10% above the league average is more than fair.

3 US teams are ahead of us in average ticket price: Capitals, Rangers, Flyers. 5 Canadian teams are ahead of us: Leafs, Jets, Canucks, Oilers, Canadiens. GOULET!

When you look at Fan Cost Index (FCI), the price to take a family of four to a game, including tickets, drinks, hot dogs, parking, etc., the Pens are 11th in the league at $369.07, with the NHL average set at $354.82 (or just 4% above the NHL average). This is due to things like the Pens having cheaper beer prices than other comparable NHL teams as well as not charging for programs when some others do.

So before you accuse Lemieux and Burkle of cheating you and laughing themselves to sleep naked on top of a big pile of money surrounded by beautiful women, take some perspective. I mean, Burkle definitely probably does laugh himself to sleep naked on top of a big pile of money surrounded by beautiful women... but he certainly isn't cheating you. GOULET!


I think those are way way way way off becasue they do not include premium seat prices (igloo seats) which are historically some of the highest in the leauge,
or any of the boxes, little ones or suites, it skews those numbers greatly as the Pens have a ton of those seats.

One other thing people forget is the Pens deal wtih the city "flipped". Consol brought more for them than increased ticket revenue. They got concert money (rent or however that works I dont know), more parking money, a ton more concession money from pens games and now concets, development rights, rent from TGI Fridays or whatever. Plus increased suites and sponsorship cash-eesh. It was a windfall deal. Just add the numbers up in your head for concessions at all the events they have beyond games.

You guys are correct its a free market. But do the math in your head. If they make $5 more person for food than they did before plus concert patrons, more parking, triple the naming rights, more sponsors, 20 more suites, some other random dollars with a minimal increase in rent then they are either sleeping in money beds or the horribly managed from a business side.

Point being even if your fan cost index is correct, which I dont think it is the Pens still have a really good arena deal that makes them money compared to 3 years ago.

I hesitate to say this as MRandall will fire in with the "go get bobbleheads at a pirates game" but its why the cut backs bother people so much, they seem like such minimal silly things to cut out when their increases far far far far far outweigh any rent or cap hikes, especially now that they are getting 7% more back in their pockets.

Thats my opinion anyways, they say they are the best fan friendly organization but pinch pennies on the silliest of things. Deep down I think thats why people get mad, dont come out with excuses and send letters saying your great. Or pound your chest on twitter. Just have price increases due to demand but provide the minimal amount of customer service.

My best example is this. Everyone wanted an iPad. They were expensive and over valued based on demand. But when you went to pick it up it was in a nice package, and there were people in the store to help you out, help you set it up, free trouble shooting and more. There is still value in basic business principles no matter how "by the balls" they have you.

It seems they did learn their lesson from last years playoff pricing disaster. They raised them so high they had too high of a cancel rate and offered us season holders the chance to buy more for the first time since pre Sid.


Oh wait, you dare criticize the Pens who got a basically free arena with public tax money? Mrandal and Newarenanow will set you straight. The Pens aren't greedy...they only keep the best first round exiting team in the business together and have their players deliver pizza to fans before games. Not only that, but any critique is unwarrented...
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Re: 2013-2014 Season Ticket Invoices

Postby newarenanow on Tue Mar 26, 2013 9:12 am

MRandall and I believe in justice.
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Re: 2013-2014 Season Ticket Invoices

Postby TheGhostofGoulet on Tue Mar 26, 2013 9:15 am

I think those are way way way way off becasue they do not include premium seat prices (igloo seats) which are historically some of the highest in the leauge, or any of the boxes, little ones or suites, it skews those numbers greatly as the Pens have a ton of those seats.


The numbers are not off. Those numbers I listed, the price per ticket, are for general tickets, yes. The premium seats show similar parallels however. The Penguins are 9th in premium seating pricing with an average price of $167.50. The league average is $145.33, so the Penguins are 13% above the average NHL price. Again, all things considered, this pricing is more than fair. GOULET!

Your arguments against the Pens are flawed. You keep bringing up how well they are doing financially because of their arena deal, increased revenues through sponsorship, concerts, etc. Why does that matter? The main point of this discussion and the crux of your argument was you were upset that the prices for season tickets have risen so dramatically the past 5 years and that they are getting out of control.

Now my numbers have showed to you that actually the prices are right in line with the rest of the league and when you consider they have a new arena and a playoff contending team with superstars, that it warrants their prices being slightly above the league average. The prices are set by the market - and the market is the rest of the NHL teams. The Devils have higher ticket prices and I think we can all agree that we have a better product on ice as well as a NEWER arena - whether or not their arena is better is subjective and doesn't need to be debated. GOULET!

No one is saying that you cannot criticize the organization. You can. They warranted all the criticism they got when they managed the team into bankruptcy in the 90's/2000's. There isn't really any room for criticism at this time however, at least on the level you are expressing. Are there minor concerns like ushers not helping enough? Or someone not telling you you have credit to use because of the lockout? Big picture these issues are tiny and hardly justify the harsh criticism you have given the organization in this thread.

Since I shot down your original argument that the prices are unfairly and outrageously increasing, you have now switched your argument to "well they should be doing more for us since they're making so much extra money". Why? Again, they've done a lot and in case you haven't noticed, a large portion of the population (both STHs and non-STHs) are extremely happy with the organization and have few if any complaints. This message board does not encompass the entire STH segment and your opinions do not speak for the masses.

Your response will probably be that they are all sheep and you are the one who has seen the light and was brave enough to stand up to the corruption being instituted by greedy billionaire Ron Burkle and the egotistical millionaire Mario Lemieux.

And once again remember, they are compared to their counterparts. To the other 29 NHL franchises. To their arenas, their prices, their amenities, etc. When you do that comparison you see the Penguins offer among the best in the league in what they offer, provide, etc. to their fans. And they do that all at prices slightly above the league average. Not too shabby.

GOULET!
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Re: 2013-2014 Season Ticket Invoices

Postby newarenanow on Tue Mar 26, 2013 9:35 am

I like this Goulet guy.
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Re: 2013-2014 Season Ticket Invoices

Postby Idoit40fans on Tue Mar 26, 2013 9:37 am

The "GOULET!" thing will get tired if there is another post like that. Otherwise its good stuff. Also, the Pens mistakenly double billed me for my deposit and will not alter the statement. They said I can either pay it or turn down my tickets then get on the waiting list.
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Re: 2013-2014 Season Ticket Invoices

Postby llipgh2 on Tue Mar 26, 2013 9:57 am

Idoit40fans wrote:The "GOULET!" thing will get tired if there is another post like that. Otherwise its good stuff. Also, the Pens mistakenly double billed me for my deposit and will not alter the statement. They said I can either pay it or turn down my tickets then get on the waiting list.


Wow, that isn't right. What was the reasoning for not correcting the statement?
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Re: 2013-2014 Season Ticket Invoices

Postby BurghersAndDogsSports on Tue Mar 26, 2013 10:05 am

TheGhostofGoulet wrote:
I think those are way way way way off becasue they do not include premium seat prices (igloo seats) which are historically some of the highest in the leauge, or any of the boxes, little ones or suites, it skews those numbers greatly as the Pens have a ton of those seats.


The numbers are not off. Those numbers I listed, the price per ticket, are for general tickets, yes. The premium seats show similar parallels however. The Penguins are 9th in premium seating pricing with an average price of $167.50. The league average is $145.33, so the Penguins are 13% above the average NHL price. Again, all things considered, this pricing is more than fair. GOULET!

Your arguments against the Pens are flawed. You keep bringing up how well they are doing financially because of their arena deal, increased revenues through sponsorship, concerts, etc. Why does that matter? The main point of this discussion and the crux of your argument was you were upset that the prices for season tickets have risen so dramatically the past 5 years and that they are getting out of control.

Now my numbers have showed to you that actually the prices are right in line with the rest of the league and when you consider they have a new arena and a playoff contending team with superstars, that it warrants their prices being slightly above the league average. The prices are set by the market - and the market is the rest of the NHL teams. The Devils have higher ticket prices and I think we can all agree that we have a better product on ice as well as a NEWER arena - whether or not their arena is better is subjective and doesn't need to be debated. GOULET!

No one is saying that you cannot criticize the organization. You can. They warranted all the criticism they got when they managed the team into bankruptcy in the 90's/2000's. There isn't really any room for criticism at this time however, at least on the level you are expressing. Are there minor concerns like ushers not helping enough? Or someone not telling you you have credit to use because of the lockout? Big picture these issues are tiny and hardly justify the harsh criticism you have given the organization in this thread.

Since I shot down your original argument that the prices are unfairly and outrageously increasing, you have now switched your argument to "well they should be doing more for us since they're making so much extra money". Why? Again, they've done a lot and in case you haven't noticed, a large portion of the population (both STHs and non-STHs) are extremely happy with the organization and have few if any complaints. This message board does not encompass the entire STH segment and your opinions do not speak for the masses.

Your response will probably be that they are all sheep and you are the one who has seen the light and was brave enough to stand up to the corruption being instituted by greedy billionaire Ron Burkle and the egotistical millionaire Mario Lemieux.

And once again remember, they are compared to their counterparts. To the other 29 NHL franchises. To their arenas, their prices, their amenities, etc. When you do that comparison you see the Penguins offer among the best in the league in what they offer, provide, etc. to their fans. And they do that all at prices slightly above the league average. Not too shabby.

GOULET!


You are not analytical.

The reason premium seating and pricing is not correct is because there are values placed on it that are not tracked. For example, the pens charge $167 for seats. Other teams charge $145 and that includes things like the buffet a d unlimited beer and wine. Rendering the pens prices much much higher.

Toilet! (That's what autocorrect changed Goulet to, kind of fitting)

It's why the fan cost index is off and why these sites don't track that normally) It's 100% wrong a d your 13% just changed to 45%. You site New Jersey, go to a game there ever? There igloo seats come with a free buffet pre game and all the burgers and like food you want all game long. And free soda.

Goulet! Not comparable again, correct? Before you argue your Internet research you should travel and take in other venues. It would be eye opening for everyone.

You guys can argue prices and fan cost blah blah all day long and find excuses such as they are still paying off bankruptcy from 12 year ago or just admit the obvious.

Btw - they were way under the cap this year.......millions under.

Goulet!

Finally, again I dont want free crap. The responses to that are awful. It's the point....the point......the point....the point......of charging for things they used to provide for free, or cutting back on the very basics at a time when They have all these new revenues, higher ticket prices and are coming in what $7 million under the cap (for those who keep sighting it as a reason).

My iPad example above was just trying to show that all I want is to be treated like a customer, that's it. A customer. Don't insult me by charging for white out shirts the very year you get a new arena and all these new monies. Don't insult me by not even caring enough to put my tickets in a box. I've never ever ever heard anyone in any of my life's work claim businesses should treat customers poorly and cut back on staples because they can. It's mind blowing.

Out. Goulet. Toilet.
Last edited by BurghersAndDogsSports on Tue Mar 26, 2013 10:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2013-2014 Season Ticket Invoices

Postby Idoit40fans on Tue Mar 26, 2013 10:06 am

llipgh2 wrote:
Idoit40fans wrote:The "GOULET!" thing will get tired if there is another post like that. Otherwise its good stuff. Also, the Pens mistakenly double billed me for my deposit and will not alter the statement. They said I can either pay it or turn down my tickets then get on the waiting list.


Wow, that isn't right. What was the reasoning for not correcting the statement?


That was a joke. :pop:
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Re: 2013-2014 Season Ticket Invoices

Postby llipgh2 on Tue Mar 26, 2013 10:12 am

Idoit40fans wrote:
llipgh2 wrote:
Idoit40fans wrote:The "GOULET!" thing will get tired if there is another post like that. Otherwise its good stuff. Also, the Pens mistakenly double billed me for my deposit and will not alter the statement. They said I can either pay it or turn down my tickets then get on the waiting list.


Wow, that isn't right. What was the reasoning for not correcting the statement?


That was a joke. :pop:


Oh. Hey it's early...still drinking coffee...
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Re: 2013-2014 Season Ticket Invoices

Postby Idoit40fans on Tue Mar 26, 2013 10:13 am

Actually there was nothing there really suggesting that, I was just hope someone would pick it up and run with it.
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Re: 2013-2014 Season Ticket Invoices

Postby DropEmJayBird on Tue Mar 26, 2013 10:15 am

If you think you are getting ripped off - walk away.
If nobody buys the tickets you walked away from - the penguins were wrong and you were right.
If someone buys the tickets you walked away from - the penguins were right and you were wrong.

Me? best two players in the world is a delight to watch and the mutual transaction of my money in exchange for the opportunity to see them live is still a good deal in my opinion - which is why I voluntarily make it.

I watched some 1991 stanley cup highlight vids on youtube yesterday... man it would have been awesome to be there.
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Re: 2013-2014 Season Ticket Invoices

Postby BurghersAndDogsSports on Tue Mar 26, 2013 10:22 am

DropEmJayBird wrote:If you think you are getting ripped off - walk away.
If nobody buys the tickets you walked away from - the penguins were wrong and you were right.
If someone buys the tickets you walked away from - the penguins were right and you were wrong.

Me? best two players in the world is a delight to watch and the mutual transaction of my money in exchange for the opportunity to see them live is still a good deal in my opinion - which is why I voluntarily make it.

I watched some 1991 stanley cup highlight vids on youtube yesterday... man it would have been awesome to be there.


So then you admit they were wrong last year? Playoffs? Cancels and plenty of tickets?

I just flat out disagree with any business model based on the short term, in my mind the pens should be using this time to prepare for 3 years down the road when they need too.

But that's just me.

Toilet.

Have a good one all.
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Re: 2013-2014 Season Ticket Invoices

Postby TheGhostofGoulet on Tue Mar 26, 2013 10:26 am

*sigh* Really? I mean I could go through and point out all the grammatical errors but I won't. It's the internet and yes grammar nazis are just as ridiculous as people that can't use proper grammar, but there's also a point where it gets ridiculous when you use "there" instead of "their" and "site" instead of "cite". I mean, when you're trying to provide a logical argument it doesn't help your case to do that. Just a tip moving forward.

You say you don't want free stuff? But then earlier you list: "It's 100% wrong a d your 13% just changed to 45%. You site New Jersey, go to a game there ever? There igloo seats come with a free buffet pre game and all the burgers and like food you want all game long. And free soda." So your argument is New Jersey gives free stuff and the Pens don't and that upsets you... but then you don't want free stuff? Forgive me if I'm confused.

And also... the fact that New Jersey offers free food/drinks with their premium seating does not change the Penguins prices from 13% to 45%. I have no idea in what world that makes sense but I'd like to travel to your world sometime and witness these exciting developments in math. I'll take your word that the Devils provide these free food and drinks with premium seating... but they also charge a slight bit more per seat than the Penguins (not the $145 that you referenced; their premium tickets avg. $172.68) They have also had very bad management issues lately and needed to be saved from total financial failure just earlier this year. Again, even if the Devils and Pens prices were the same and the Devils offer these free add-ons, it doesn't increase the Penguins prices. It increases the value of the Devils tickets. Value and price are not the same my friend. You mentioned this but clearly do not understand the concept since you believe it effectively raises the Penguins prices.

As for the cap issue... I haven't brought this up at all? Yes the Penguins are under the cap, because they needed the room to pursue Parise last summer. It didn't work out and it didn't make sense for them to use that cap space at that time. What are they doing now though? Using the cap space they have on rentals to win now and smartly doing so by only getting rentals since the cap will drop dramatically next year.

You keep saying they're cutting back on basics and charging for what used to be free? Give examples please. Make a list of what basics they have cut back on and what is now being charged that was previously free (I actually want you to - it would be helpful to this discussion.
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Re: 2013-2014 Season Ticket Invoices

Postby TheGhostofGoulet on Tue Mar 26, 2013 10:32 am

I just flat out disagree with any business model based on the short term, in my mind the pens should be using this time to prepare for 3 years down the road when they need too.


So you agree with the Devils business model that ran itself into the ground and failed but you disagree with the Penguins business model that is extremely successful and profitable? This is why you don't own a business.
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Re: 2013-2014 Season Ticket Invoices

Postby DropEmJayBird on Tue Mar 26, 2013 10:56 am

BurghersAndDogsSports wrote:
DropEmJayBird wrote:If you think you are getting ripped off - walk away.
If nobody buys the tickets you walked away from - the penguins were wrong and you were right.
If someone buys the tickets you walked away from - the penguins were right and you were wrong.

Me? best two players in the world is a delight to watch and the mutual transaction of my money in exchange for the opportunity to see them live is still a good deal in my opinion - which is why I voluntarily make it.

I watched some 1991 stanley cup highlight vids on youtube yesterday... man it would have been awesome to be there.


So then you admit they were wrong last year? Playoffs? Cancels and plenty of tickets?

I just flat out disagree with any business model based on the short term, in my mind the pens should be using this time to prepare for 3 years down the road when they need too.

But that's just me.

Toilet.

Have a good one all.



it's simple - if you disagree with it as a business model, don't support it with your money. The penguins will make their choice, you will make yours, and I will make mine. The penguins havent seen any drop off with playoff losses, lockouts, and whatever else has went on. I say they are preparing 3 years down the road, perhaps even 10 to 20. They have the two best players in the world, the two biggest ticket draws in the hockey world and business sense wise - you strike while this iron is hot. If people here are selling tickets at a higher price than the cost of the ticket as a STH, then I would say the Penguins are making the smart business move. Demand is still outpacing supply.
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Re: 2013-2014 Season Ticket Invoices

Postby newarenanow on Tue Mar 26, 2013 11:03 am

Idoit40fans wrote:Actually there was nothing there really suggesting that, I was just hope someone would pick it up and run with it.


#Sleazy organization fits well with it's #sleazy, #conniving fans. :pop:
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Re: 2013-2014 Season Ticket Invoices

Postby TheGhostofGoulet on Tue Mar 26, 2013 11:08 am

Burkle was reached for comment on this matter by WPXI, there's a sound clip of his response in this link: http://www.hark.com/batman-returns/ive- ... -from-hell
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Re: 2013-2014 Season Ticket Invoices

Postby canaan on Tue Mar 26, 2013 11:58 am

reading your posts like will farrell made my morning.
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Re: 2013-2014 Season Ticket Invoices

Postby It'sagreatdayforhockey! on Tue Mar 26, 2013 12:59 pm

BurghersAndDogsSports wrote:You are not analytical.

The reason premium seating and pricing is not correct is because there are values placed on it that are not tracked. For example, the pens charge $167 for seats. Other teams charge $145 and that includes things like the buffet a d unlimited beer and wine. Rendering the pens prices much much higher.

Toilet! (That's what autocorrect changed Goulet to, kind of fitting)

It's why the fan cost index is off and why these sites don't track that normally) It's 100% wrong a d your 13% just changed to 45%. You site New Jersey, go to a game there ever? There igloo seats come with a free buffet pre game and all the burgers and like food you want all game long. And free soda.

Goulet! Not comparable again, correct? Before you argue your Internet research you should travel and take in other venues. It would be eye opening for everyone.

You guys can argue prices and fan cost blah blah all day long and find excuses such as they are still paying off bankruptcy from 12 year ago or just admit the obvious.

Btw - they were way under the cap this year.......millions under.

Goulet!

Finally, again I dont want free crap. The responses to that are awful. It's the point....the point......the point....the point......of charging for things they used to provide for free, or cutting back on the very basics at a time when They have all these new revenues, higher ticket prices and are coming in what $7 million under the cap (for those who keep sighting it as a reason).

My iPad example above was just trying to show that all I want is to be treated like a customer, that's it. A customer. Don't insult me by charging for white out shirts the very year you get a new arena and all these new monies. Don't insult me by not even caring enough to put my tickets in a box. I've never ever ever heard anyone in any of my life's work claim businesses should treat customers poorly and cut back on staples because they can. It's mind blowing.

Out. Goulet. Toilet.




I've been to arenas. Some have higher cost of tickets or parking or concessions and some have lower cost. Supply/Demand. I've also been to the apple campus. And you wanna know what, they charge for shirts. Yeah, shirts that are basically a free advertisement for them and they have the nerve to charge for them? Tim Cook sock monkey, they'd charge. Steve Jobs bobble head, they'd charge. Some business etiquette. It's mind blowing.
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Re: 2013-2014 Season Ticket Invoices

Postby DropEmJayBird on Tue Mar 26, 2013 3:54 pm

beer league hockey admission is free btw, not only that - but you can choose to catch an A league game for skill, or C/D league game for lulz. Small cost for food, but my guess is you can bring your own... really a great value.
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