Where is Malkin? "Earth to Malkin, Come in Malkin......"

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Re: Where is Malkin? "Earth to Malkin, Come in Malkin......"

Postby pens2005 on Fri Apr 05, 2013 2:12 pm

I, too, am waiting for the real Malkin to show up. Injuries aside, he's had a pretty disappointing season. He just doesn't seem himself.
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Re: Where is Malkin? "Earth to Malkin, Come in Malkin......"

Postby pens2005 on Fri Apr 05, 2013 2:29 pm

Pitts wrote:Wow...look who is right above Sidney for Playoff goals per game (active)!!!!!


BINGO!
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Re: Where is Malkin? "Earth to Malkin, Come in Malkin......"

Postby RisslingsMissingTeeth on Fri Apr 05, 2013 2:47 pm

Not that I've read every post in here but there seems to be some that are arguing the fact that Malkin makes a lot of stupid decisions on the ice. I thought that was more than a given. Is there any player that has more blatant turnovers than Geno? You take the good with the bad but, unless you are blind, the bad has always been very obvious.

And FWIW, I thought murphydump55's post was largely spot on. Not sure what specifically someone would be disagreeing with. Geno is always either completely unmatched or completely lost. It is what it is.
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Re: Where is Malkin? "Earth to Malkin, Come in Malkin......"

Postby murphydump55 on Fri Apr 05, 2013 2:56 pm

ivand87 wrote:
murphydump55 wrote:This is the prime reason that I laugh when people say Crosby isn't even the best center on his team. Even when Sid is off, he's still noticeable and does SOME things.

Malkin on the other hand absolutely disappears. It's no secret that I'm not a big fan of him and my friends know that. He has a LOT of talent but generally just seems "dumb" to me and lacks hockey sense. He gets by in a game because of his high talent level masking his low hockey IQ. We've all seen him make some downright horrible decisions on the ice, whether it be a pass, a retaliation, a dumb penalty, or ignoring his teammates and trying to do everything on his down through 5 guys.

Take last night for instance. We were on the PP, Malkin carrying the puck through the neutral zone, coming up to 3 guys at the blueline. He had wingers on both sides that had to slow right down as to not go offside. Geno wasn't coming with speed and Neal figured he would either chip the puck in, or at least turn on the speed. He did neither,instead moving laterally, putting Neal offside, and in the process chipping the puck laterally across the blueline to him. Anyone that plays hockey knows that a lateral move or pass at the blueline is one of the worst things you can do. I just shook my head number one at the lack of entry we have on the PP, and at the stupid decision by Geno.

He's also a pretty big sulk. If he gets hit or checked hard, he loves to stay down on the ice in a pissy mood, while getting up slowly and not husting back into the play.
His passing on the PP has been atrocious and his one timer has zero accuracy. It's just ripped off the glass most times. His faceoffs are an embarrassment and have seen minimal improvement.

I have witnessed a focused Geno, that literally took over about 25 games in a row, or a playoff series that he absolutely owned. He looked like a man playing against boys out there. Everytime he got the puck, you knew something was going to happen. Now, you just hope and pray that he doesn't turn the puck over. He has become the biggest enigma out there. Does he need his mom back?

If you take away last years stats, he has 141 points in his last 135 games and is a -9.

While he's still averaging a point per game, it's much less than we know he's capable of. Sure injuries have played their part, but when you see a guy go out and score 106, 108, 113 points a season, you come to expect more than a point per game pace, and negative plus minus.
In my mind, he's not worth the same money that Sid gets. Only because you never know what you're getting from him, and frankly he can hurt you out there more than he helps you some nights with his sulking, stupid penalties, and retaliatory stuff. Not to mention we've seen him get shut down and rattled by a rookie in Philly. With Sid, you know you're getting that intense backcheck and pick pocketing, the dangerous offensive zone presence, the amazing board and cycle play, and leadership by effort night after night. We've seen Sid improve in all areas that he lacks, such as shot, goalscoring, faceoffs, shootouts, temper, penalties, etc.

I guess to summarize, Malkin needs to find that level of consistency and bring it nightly. He also needs to work to improve the areas of his game that lack. His payday will be pretty easy if he keeps this up.

We need him more than ever RIGHT now, and if he can't find it, then it's going to be a pretty big disappointment from a guy that pulling in the biggest paycheque on the team.


You sir are the winner of THE WORST POST IN LETSGOPENS.COM HISTORY! CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!


THANK you! Coming from you, that REALLY HURTS! A random poster on a message board told me I posted the worst post in history.

OUCH. I won't be able to sleep tonight. Thanks for your opinion.

I laugh at everyone flipping out over my post. I give him props and I also call him out on his shortcomings. Malkin can be better and should be better.
As I pointed out, if you take away his great year last year, he's basically averaging a point per game over the last 3 seasons, and is a minus player.
Would this be an acceptable pace if he didn't have last year's great season? He's apparently one of the top 3 players in the game today, and pulling in a huge paycheque and has proven what he is capable of.....but you'd be satisfied with a point per game pace?

I'm calling him out to play to his potential, which he's only done once over the last 3 seasons. Sure you can throw in the injuries and whatever else, but others have come back from injuries and had no problem picking up where they left off. But for some reason, we keep making excuses for Geno. He came back after his knee injury and dominated, so we know what's he's capable of.

I'm not trying to start a fight here and people are flipping out and attacking me, and on and on. I'm sorry, I didn't mean to push anyone's buttons, I didn't think people would take it so personal. I just know Geno is capable of so much more, and we need to stop making excuses for him. In my mind, he's a top 3 player in the world, when he's playing well, the problem is, he is MUCH too streaky and disappears far too often for far too lengthy periods. Top 3 or even 5 players in the world don't do that as often as he does.

It would be different if he was going out there and looking good and just snake-bitten, but he's not. Your best players have to be your best players, and right now Geno isn't, and has only played to the best of his abilities for certain periods. He's supposed to be one of the best players in the game, and has to potential to be, the problem is, he only plays that way every so often. There's no reason that Sid should be able to come back after such a lengthy time off and still produce the way he was last year and this year, and Malkin can't. Sure Sid had some rust, who wouldn't? Yet he was still dangerous everytime he touched the puck. Malkin just doesn't seem to have that.

I hope he finds his game again, because like I said, we need him now more than ever. Prove that you're one of the best in the game Geno, be the dangerous player you can be. Dominate like you can.
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Re: Where is Malkin? "Earth to Malkin, Come in Malkin......"

Postby DocEmrick on Fri Apr 05, 2013 2:58 pm

Trade him. He's worth an 8th rounder at most
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Re: Where is Malkin? "Earth to Malkin, Come in Malkin......"

Postby André on Fri Apr 05, 2013 3:03 pm

tfrizz wrote:Yeah, the deciding factor was most likely Babcock focusing his shutdown guys on Crosby. That limited his production in the SCF and gave Malkin an easier match-up.


This is so contradictive with the also often seen complaint that Geno's only at his best when Sid is out. And no, the 09 Conn Smythe wasn't because of the Caroline series only. It was well deserved.

That said, his equal strength production this season is disappointing, yes. I think I've seen him give a 90% effort alot. He's had some bad bounces and alot of third assists too, however, and I don't mind conserving strength for the playoffs at this point. In short I'm not worried but it is fair to point out his equal strength production must go up.

murphydump55: We make up excuses for him? You must be new here. Over the years Malkin has not gotten much slack at all. At several times an LGP jury has been tougher on Geno than Sid for the same crime. There's even been instances of hurt feelings from Crosby fan boys when Geno's been number one, rather than just rejoicing at being a Pens fan.

Your post exaggerates.
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Re: Where is Malkin? "Earth to Malkin, Come in Malkin......"

Postby tfrizz on Fri Apr 05, 2013 3:17 pm

André wrote:
tfrizz wrote:Yeah, the deciding factor was most likely Babcock focusing his shutdown guys on Crosby. That limited his production in the SCF and gave Malkin an easier match-up.


This is so contradictive with the also often seen complaint that Geno's only at his best when Sid is out. And no, the 09 Conn Smythe wasn't because of the Caroline series only. It was well deserved.

That said, his equal strength production this season is disappointing, yes. I think I've seen him give a 90% effort alot. He's had some bad bounces and alot of third assists too, however, and I don't mind conserving strength for the playoffs at this point. In short I'm not worried but it is fair to point out his equal strength production must go up.

murphydump55: We make up excuses for him? You must be new here. Over the years Malkin has not gotten much slack at all. At several times an LGP jury has been tougher on Geno than Sid for the same crime. There's even been instances of hurt feelings from Crosby fan boys when Geno's been number one, rather than just rejoicing at being a Pens fan.

Your post exaggerates.


I was talking about that SCF specifically. In general, I think Malkin enjoys the challenge of facing the best defensive players night after night and that's part of what helps elevate his game when Crosby is out.
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Re: Where is Malkin? "Earth to Malkin, Come in Malkin......"

Postby André on Fri Apr 05, 2013 3:20 pm

tfrizz wrote:
André wrote:
tfrizz wrote:Yeah, the deciding factor was most likely Babcock focusing his shutdown guys on Crosby. That limited his production in the SCF and gave Malkin an easier match-up.


This is so contradictive with the also often seen complaint that Geno's only at his best when Sid is out. And no, the 09 Conn Smythe wasn't because of the Caroline series only. It was well deserved.

That said, his equal strength production this season is disappointing, yes. I think I've seen him give a 90% effort alot. He's had some bad bounces and alot of third assists too, however, and I don't mind conserving strength for the playoffs at this point. In short I'm not worried but it is fair to point out his equal strength production must go up.

murphydump55: We make up excuses for him? You must be new here. Over the years Malkin has not gotten much slack at all. At several times an LGP jury has been tougher on Geno than Sid for the same crime. There's even been instances of hurt feelings from Crosby fan boys when Geno's been number one, rather than just rejoicing at being a Pens fan.

Your post exaggerates.


I was talking about that SCF specifically. In general, I think Malkin enjoys the challenge of facing the best defensive players night after night and that's part of what helps elevate his game when Crosby is out.


Yeah but that's in large part a myth, that he elevates his game with Sid out. I've posted this before:

That Geno's mainly been at his best with Sid out is a myth. It's getting old and is easily countered.

Sid played the majority (53) of regular season games when Geno got 106 points his second year 07-08.

Sid played 77 games and all of the playoffs Geno's third year 08-09 when he scored 113 points, won the Art Ross, was snubbed of the Hart but got the Conn Smyth after putting up the fourth most points in a playoffs by anyone ever in history. That while centering Fedotenko and Talbot. And no, Kronwall and Rafalski weren't scrums to face while Sid was shut down by Lidstrom and Zetterberg (and matchups can't be executed perfectly for full games and series). Another funny story that spring was how everyone was all over him after one less great game vs the Caps. Yes, he was even (slightly of course) better that season than last year. Alot of people was quick to say "best Geno's ever been" last year but that's just not true.

Also, last year, 11/12, Geno's PPG was higher after Sid's return than while he was out.

There's so much confusion on this. A Swedish hockey profile said during the WC's last year that Geno's scoring that year was even more impressive as it was without Sid. How he "this time did it with less support". At the time I felt like Apu when Homer sais he's off the the civil war re-enactment to shoot some indians, to which he replies "I don't know what part of that sentence to correct first."

1: Geno doesn't play with Sid very often (save on the PP but that was weirdly better off without Sid)
2: He has been known for great play with Sid out (though, as just proved, it's a myth it's just those times he's been great)
3: He had better (by a mile) support in 11/12 than in 08/09, playing with Kunitz and Neal instead of Talbot and Fedotenko

Not saying anyone here has said what that Swedish TV profile did, but it came to mind.
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Re: Where is Malkin? "Earth to Malkin, Come in Malkin......"

Postby murphydump55 on Fri Apr 05, 2013 3:26 pm

murphydump55: We make up excuses for him? You must be new here. Over the years Malkin has not gotten much slack at all. At several times an LGP jury has been tougher on Geno than Sid for the same crime. There's even been instances of hurt feelings from Crosby fan boys when Geno's been number one, rather than just rejoicing at being a Pens fan.

Your post exaggerates.


Everyone used Geno's injuries as an excuse for his less than stellar play prior to last season. This year I've heard the excuse that he's tired from playing overseas, and now the injury excuse again and the winger excuse.

You can't deny it's frustrating watching him, knowing what he's capable of, and continuing to watch him struggle at faceoffs over and over, poor decisions on the PP, and general all around less than stellar play.

He's capable of a lot more, and we all know that. I'm just asking him to be that player. Be that elite player that he is, not an enigma that disappears time and again. You're not going to light up the scoresheet everynight, but you can at least be involved and a factor out there.
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Re: Where is Malkin? "Earth to Malkin, Come in Malkin......"

Postby André on Fri Apr 05, 2013 3:35 pm

murphydump55 wrote:
murphydump55: We make up excuses for him? You must be new here. Over the years Malkin has not gotten much slack at all. At several times an LGP jury has been tougher on Geno than Sid for the same crime. There's even been instances of hurt feelings from Crosby fan boys when Geno's been number one, rather than just rejoicing at being a Pens fan.

Your post exaggerates.


Everyone used Geno's injuries as an excuse for his less than stellar play prior to last season. This year I've heard the excuse that he's tired from playing overseas, and now the injury excuse again and the winger excuse.

You can't deny it's frustrating watching him, knowing what he's capable of, and continuing to watch him struggle at faceoffs over and over, poor decisions on the PP, and general all around less than stellar play.

He's capable of a lot more, and we all know that. I'm just asking him to be that player. Be that elite player that he is, not an enigma that disappears time and again. You're not going to light up the scoresheet everynight, but you can at least be involved and a factor out there.


Yeah and this is my opinion on his current season:

That said, his equal strength production this season is disappointing, yes. I think I've seen him give a 90% effort alot. He's had some bad bounces and alot of third assists too, however, and I don't mind conserving strength for the playoffs at this point. In short I'm not worried but it is fair to point out his equal strength production must go up.


Looking at his career as a whole I really think, respectfully, your first post exaggerated, however.
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Re: Where is Malkin? "Earth to Malkin, Come in Malkin......"

Postby offsides on Fri Apr 05, 2013 3:42 pm

Geno with the same number of ES goals as Craig Adams,.....................just sayin.
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Re: Where is Malkin? "Earth to Malkin, Come in Malkin......"

Postby MRandall25 on Fri Apr 05, 2013 4:05 pm

offsides wrote:Geno with the same number of ES goals as Craig Adams,.....................just sayin.



I thought CFA only had 3, and 1 was a shorty?
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Re: Where is Malkin? "Earth to Malkin, Come in Malkin......"

Postby Great58 on Fri Apr 05, 2013 4:26 pm

You can all relax now. I'm pulling the light blue WC #71 jersey out of the closet for tonight's journey to the CEC. Good juju will be restored, Geno will come alive.
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Re: Where is Malkin? "Earth to Malkin, Come in Malkin......"

Postby It'sagreatdayforhockey! on Fri Apr 05, 2013 4:45 pm

murphydump55 wrote:
THANK you! Coming from you, that REALLY HURTS! A random poster on a message board told me I posted the worst post in history.

OUCH. I won't be able to sleep tonight. Thanks for your opinion.

I laugh at everyone flipping out over my post. I give him props and I also call him out on his shortcomings. Malkin can be better and should be better.
As I pointed out, if you take away his great year last year, he's basically averaging a point per game over the last 3 seasons, and is a minus player.
Would this be an acceptable pace if he didn't have last year's great season? He's apparently one of the top 3 players in the game today, and pulling in a huge paycheque and has proven what he is capable of.....but you'd be satisfied with a point per game pace?

I'm calling him out to play to his potential, which he's only done once over the last 3 seasons. Sure you can throw in the injuries and whatever else, but others have come back from injuries and had no problem picking up where they left off. But for some reason, we keep making excuses for Geno. He came back after his knee injury and dominated, so we know what's he's capable of.

I'm not trying to start a fight here and people are flipping out and attacking me, and on and on. I'm sorry, I didn't mean to push anyone's buttons, I didn't think people would take it so personal. I just know Geno is capable of so much more, and we need to stop making excuses for him. In my mind, he's a top 3 player in the world, when he's playing well, the problem is, he is MUCH too streaky and disappears far too often for far too lengthy periods. Top 3 or even 5 players in the world don't do that as often as he does.

It would be different if he was going out there and looking good and just snake-bitten, but he's not. Your best players have to be your best players, and right now Geno isn't, and has only played to the best of his abilities for certain periods. He's supposed to be one of the best players in the game, and has to potential to be, the problem is, he only plays that way every so often. There's no reason that Sid should be able to come back after such a lengthy time off and still produce the way he was last year and this year, and Malkin can't. Sure Sid had some rust, who wouldn't? Yet he was still dangerous everytime he touched the puck. Malkin just doesn't seem to have that.

I hope he finds his game again, because like I said, we need him now more than ever. Prove that you're one of the best in the game Geno, be the dangerous player you can be. Dominate like you can.



No, the reason people are "flipping out" over your post are quotes like these:

It's no secret that I'm not a big fan of him and my friends know that. He has a LOT of talent but generally just seems "dumb" to me and lacks hockey sense.

You clearly aren't a big fan as you say yourself, so thats probably not the best way to start.

He's also a pretty big sulk. If he gets hit or checked hard, he loves to stay down on the ice in a pissy mood, while getting up slowly and not husting back into the play.
If anything, he has a bigger problem retaliating too much in these situations.

His passing on the PP has been atrocious and his one timer has zero accuracy. It's just ripped off the glass most times.

He's won the accuracy competition going what 7 for 8? and is regarded as one of the top PP threats with his zero accuracy one timer, so I'm not even sure how you can say this.

If you take away last years stats, he has 141 points in his last 135 games and is a -9.

That 141 points in 135 games (discounting his MVP season, wtf is that?) would still put him 38th in the history of the NHL for pts/gm just behind Gordie Howe.

He has become the biggest enigma out there. Does he need his mom back?

Yep, no agenda from you.

With Sid, you know you're getting that intense backcheck and pick pocketing, the dangerous offensive zone presence, the amazing board and cycle play, and leadership by effort night after night.

He leads the team in takeaways/gm and is consistently near the top on the team, which to me would seem like some pretty "intense backcheck and pick pocketing".


This isn't to say that he is playing at Crosby's level (or has played at that level), but you are clearly short changing him.
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Re: Where is Malkin? "Earth to Malkin, Come in Malkin......"

Postby farnham16 on Fri Apr 05, 2013 5:01 pm

Malkin has taken abuse his entire career from this place and from the Pittsburgh media. Of course there are people, like myself, who defend him, but Geno has been called out every single year of his career at LGP. Its quite amazing that all he has accomplished so far in his career (on a HOF track) that he doesn't get more slack here. There's nothing wrong with saying he needs to pick his game up, but when people start saying he was "low hockey IQ", "he's lazy", "he's dumb", then it just becomes ridiculous. But it happens all the time.

But Malkin is probably going to have a great game tonight so shut this thread down so whatever.
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Re: Where is Malkin? "Earth to Malkin, Come in Malkin......"

Postby offsides on Fri Apr 05, 2013 5:04 pm

MRandall25 wrote:
offsides wrote:Geno with the same number of ES goals as Craig Adams,.....................just sayin.



I thought CFA only had 3, and 1 was a shorty?


You may be right which means Geno has 3 and CFA has 2 even strength goals. Also CFA played 13 more games, but Malkin has over 75 minutes more ice time.
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Re: Where is Malkin? "Earth to Malkin, Come in Malkin......"

Postby murphydump55 on Fri Apr 05, 2013 5:16 pm

If anything, he has a bigger problem retaliating too much in these situations.


Either or, he has to stop both. You can't deny how pissy he gets when he gets hit and things aren't going his way. Everyone has seen him get up slow and dog it back when he's frustrated. Throw in the retaliation and it's just as bad.

He's won the accuracy competition going what 7 for 8? and is regarded as one of the top PP threats with his zero accuracy one timer, so I'm not even sure how you can say this.


So because he won a competition he gets a pass for the rest of his life? I like him on the PP, and I want him shooting that one timer from the half wall, however it's just a prayer most times. Take note on how many times he rifles it off the glass, not even close. I wouldn't want to be standing in front when he shoots. It just seems it's out of control more than it's accurate. However he has had success there, but not lately.

That 141 points in 135 games (discounting his MVP season, wtf is that?) would still put him 38th in the history of the NHL for pts/gm just behind Gordie Howe.


Good numbers, but if you can say over the course of 3 seasons, that you'd be happy with that pace for Geno, then fine, we'll agree to disagree. I know what' he's capable of, and it's more than that. We've seen it. He's scored over 100 points, what , 4 times? I like to see him play to his potential.

Yep, no agenda from you.


Stating he's an enigma is a lie? I simply asked if he needed his mom back, because he was playing the best hockey when his parents were there in Pittsburgh. Maybe it's what he needs, I'm not knocking him. If that's what it takes, so be it.
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Re: Where is Malkin? "Earth to Malkin, Come in Malkin......"

Postby Gaucho on Fri Apr 05, 2013 6:21 pm

farnham16 wrote:Malkin has taken abuse his entire career from this place and from the Pittsburgh media. Of course there are people, like myself, who defend him, but Geno has been called out every single year of his career at LGP. Its quite amazing that all he has accomplished so far in his career (on a HOF track) that he doesn't get more slack here. There's nothing wrong with saying he needs to pick his game up, but when people start saying he was "low hockey IQ", "he's lazy", "he's dumb", then it just becomes ridiculous. But it happens all the time.



And yet he is ecxpected to take a "hometown discount".
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Re: Where is Malkin? "Earth to Malkin, Come in Malkin......"

Postby farnham16 on Fri Apr 05, 2013 7:04 pm

Gaucho wrote:
farnham16 wrote:Malkin has taken abuse his entire career from this place and from the Pittsburgh media. Of course there are people, like myself, who defend him, but Geno has been called out every single year of his career at LGP. Its quite amazing that all he has accomplished so far in his career (on a HOF track) that he doesn't get more slack here. There's nothing wrong with saying he needs to pick his game up, but when people start saying he was "low hockey IQ", "he's lazy", "he's dumb", then it just becomes ridiculous. But it happens all the time.



And yet he is ecxpected to take a "hometown discount".


I mean I doubt Malkin reads LGP and he probably doesn't take too much to heart the ridiculous columns we've seen from the likes of Ron Cook, but its just plain amazing to me how quickly some Pens fans turn on him. And after all he has done so far too. He just had a remarkable comeback last season from a serious knee injury. It was every bit as amazing as Adrian Peterson's comeback. But the second Malkin goes a few games without looking unreal, people can't wait to jump all over him.

People need to give him a break and realize he's been banged up and just rencently came back from it. He's trying to get his game under him. It will come. He is not a problem.
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Re: Where is Malkin? "Earth to Malkin, Come in Malkin......"

Postby the wicked child on Fri Apr 05, 2013 10:07 pm

Looks like he made Lundqvist pull a groin. Does that count for anything?
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Re: Where is Malkin? "Earth to Malkin, Come in Malkin......"

Postby DontToewsMeBro on Fri Apr 05, 2013 11:30 pm

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Re: Where is Malkin? "Earth to Malkin, Come in Malkin......"

Postby Scott on Sat Apr 06, 2013 1:17 am

this is all you need to know right here and they are both great. Amazing players both are.

Having said that, have you ever seen a Penguin game and after in a sarcastic manner say, did Sidney Crosby dress for this game?

Have you ever seen a Penguin game and ask to yourself, gee did Malkin even dress for this game?

I've never seen a player like Crosby. Even when he doesn't record a single point you leave the game knowing full well Sidney Crosby just played. You can't miss him. You know the moment he hits the ice when its his turn for a shift. You can see Crosby without really seeing Crosby if you can unerstand that. His impact is felt not just in every game but virtually on every shift.

I can't even come close saying the same for Malkin and I really like him as a player. He is a top three player of this generation. Sid is just so far out in front and quite possibly a player to the likes this league has ever seen.

There have been other scorers, passers, skaters...but he is everything rolled into one. He has the talent of Gretzky and Lemieux but with an energy level that Lemieux and Gretzky would only dream about.
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Re: Where is Malkin? "Earth to Malkin, Come in Malkin......"

Postby marek on Sat Apr 06, 2013 2:26 am

Total shots on goal? Zilch... Nada... Kaput
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Re: Where is Malkin? "Earth to Malkin, Come in Malkin......"

Postby Pens4Life on Sat Apr 06, 2013 3:39 am

another dissapointing game by Geno or the whole line in matter of fact.. Neal looks lost,Geno looks like a lost rookie,Iginla was bad last night..
no chemistry yet..
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Re: Where is Malkin? "Earth to Malkin, Come in Malkin......"

Postby headh on Sat Apr 06, 2013 5:12 am

Pens4Life wrote:another dissapointing game by Geno or the whole line in matter of fact.. Neal looks lost,Geno looks like a lost rookie,Iginla was bad last night..
no chemistry yet..


It makes no sense to have 3 alpha males on one line. Especially when 2/3 wants to play LW
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