Where is Malkin? "Earth to Malkin, Come in Malkin......"

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Re: Where is Malkin? "Earth to Malkin, Come in Malkin......"

Postby columbia on Fri Apr 05, 2013 9:26 am

IO don't agree with the sentiment, but that's hardly trolling.
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Re: Where is Malkin? "Earth to Malkin, Come in Malkin......"

Postby Idoit40fans on Fri Apr 05, 2013 9:27 am

DontToewsMeBro wrote:LGP is the only place where a PPG pace is considered "lazy" and there is quibbling over who is the best generational talent on our team.

36-84-120.
35-78-113.

Crosby and Malkin's best seasons. We are literally spoiled rotten as a fanbase.


Yeah, i'm sure no one in Washington has ever complained about Ovechkin. Certainly no one in Atlanta ever complained about Kovalchuk being lazy.
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Re: Where is Malkin? "Earth to Malkin, Come in Malkin......"

Postby johnnews on Fri Apr 05, 2013 9:32 am

Um, Jack Johnson plays for CBJ.

I love when people say "take away these numbers and you have this". You can't take away numbers that are real. That being said, Geno needs to get going. While he can be incredibly frustrating with dumb penalties & turnovers, he can also be a dominant force. Making the Pens a 2 line juggernaut that other teams cannot match up with. 2 goals tonight breaks him loose.
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Re: Where is Malkin? "Earth to Malkin, Come in Malkin......"

Postby MarioLives on Fri Apr 05, 2013 9:32 am

headh wrote:
MarioLives wrote:Mark Madden was hilarious discussing Malkin yesterday. I was laughing so hard. He did make a good point, that I will try my best to summarize. He basically said that with Crosby you get a player who plays goal line to goal line, wins faceoffs, kills penalties, is the face of the franchise and the league.....so when he is not scoring, you still notice him and respect his value. With Malkin you get a guy who does not kill penalties, not very good at face offs, does not play goal line to goal line, cant speak English and looks disinterested a lot. So when he is not scoring goals, he is not worth the 8.7 million.

Hard to argue with that....I love Malkin, but anyone with an unbiased look can see that he is not playing well this year. Regardless of the points, he just looks like he does not want to be out there. And he seems to get a free pass from managment. Malkin has 6 goals people......6



He has missed 13 games. What exactly should management say about him averaging over a point per game while playing hurt and part time?

They SHOULD just say "thank you!"


Pick and choose.....pick and choose. Take the one comment and ignore the rest. The effort is not there right now.....
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Re: Where is Malkin? "Earth to Malkin, Come in Malkin......"

Postby DontToewsMeBro on Fri Apr 05, 2013 9:34 am

Neither of those players could find the defensive zone if you gave them a map. Geno backchecks well and has lead the team in takeaways before. He also knows how to, you know, pass the puck. I'm not sure what comparison you're drawing here because it's way off base.
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Re: Where is Malkin? "Earth to Malkin, Come in Malkin......"

Postby headh on Fri Apr 05, 2013 9:35 am

Bioshock wrote:
Idoit40fans wrote:
headh wrote:So Crosby outscoring Geno by 7 points in a longer regular season is "overwhelmingly"

But Geno outscoring Sid in a shorter playoff run by 5 is "only"

lol....I can clearly see your fair impartial analysis coming to the forefront


How about Crosby outscoring Malkin by 5 in an even shorter playoff the year before when a couple of extra points could have been the difference between losing(which is what happened) and winning? Just stop.

headh wrote:The deciding factor is that when Geno and Sid are both playing their best Geno is better.


Oh ok, you're trolling. I'm not one to ruin that, carry on.


Yeah, it was apparent a few posts ago. Not very tactful unfortunately.


how exactly is defending one of our three Penguin captains on a Pittsburgh Penguin message board considered "trolling"?
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Re: Where is Malkin? "Earth to Malkin, Come in Malkin......"

Postby Idoit40fans on Fri Apr 05, 2013 9:36 am

DontToewsMeBro wrote:Neither of those players could find the defensive zone if you gave them a map. Geno backchecks well and has lead the team in takeaways before. He also knows how to, you know, pass the puck. I'm not sure what comparison you're drawing here because it's way off base.


Comparison was perfectly apt. You talked about players being a point per game and generational talents and then discussed fans of their teams calling them lazy.
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Re: Where is Malkin? "Earth to Malkin, Come in Malkin......"

Postby DontToewsMeBro on Fri Apr 05, 2013 9:44 am

Idoit40fans wrote:
DontToewsMeBro wrote:Neither of those players could find the defensive zone if you gave them a map. Geno backchecks well and has lead the team in takeaways before. He also knows how to, you know, pass the puck. I'm not sure what comparison you're drawing here because it's way off base.


Comparison was perfectly apt. You talked about players being a point per game and generational talents and then discussed fans of their teams calling them lazy.


you are also assuming that each of these players brings absolutely nothing to the team so long as they're not scoring, which is probably true for Ovechkin and was true for Kovalchuk. If anything, when Malkin is struggling he is trying too hard to do things himself and not using his linemates well. I will be the first to agree that Malkin has been out of sync with his passing all season, but to imply that he's a "lazy Russian" because of it is unfair and ignorant of everything else he brings to the team.
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Re: Where is Malkin? "Earth to Malkin, Come in Malkin......"

Postby headh on Fri Apr 05, 2013 9:49 am

MarioLives wrote:
headh wrote:
MarioLives wrote:Mark Madden was hilarious discussing Malkin yesterday. I was laughing so hard. He did make a good point, that I will try my best to summarize. He basically said that with Crosby you get a player who plays goal line to goal line, wins faceoffs, kills penalties, is the face of the franchise and the league.....so when he is not scoring, you still notice him and respect his value. With Malkin you get a guy who does not kill penalties, not very good at face offs, does not play goal line to goal line, cant speak English and looks disinterested a lot. So when he is not scoring goals, he is not worth the 8.7 million.

Hard to argue with that....I love Malkin, but anyone with an unbiased look can see that he is not playing well this year. Regardless of the points, he just looks like he does not want to be out there. And he seems to get a free pass from managment. Malkin has 6 goals people......6



He has missed 13 games. What exactly should management say about him averaging over a point per game while playing hurt and part time?

They SHOULD just say "thank you!"


Pick and choose.....pick and choose. Take the one comment and ignore the rest. The effort is not there right now.....


It's tough to take the criticism of his play too seriously when it includes things that aren't relevant.

Sid being the face of the franchise means nothing when evaluating Geno's play
Sid being the face of the NHL means nothing when evaluating Geno's play
Sid speaking English at a higher level than Geno means nothing when evaluating Geno's play
Geno has been a league leader in takeaways in the past so how does anyone criticize 71's ability to play both ways?

If evaluating his body language is a legitimate argument then so be it....I guess. I don't think it's unusual for a goal scorer to look frustrated while he's in a goal scoring slump. Sid is definitely a higher level of competitor more consistently.
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Re: Where is Malkin? "Earth to Malkin, Come in Malkin......"

Postby Idoit40fans on Fri Apr 05, 2013 9:49 am

I never made that implication. Just disagreed with your assertion that Pens fans on this forum would be unique in calling a star player lazy.
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Re: Where is Malkin? "Earth to Malkin, Come in Malkin......"

Postby Kovy27 on Fri Apr 05, 2013 9:58 am

headh wrote:The deciding factor is that when Geno and Sid are both playing their best Geno is better. I think it's because he's bigger and more dominant physically.

Sid is simply more tenacious and consistent with his effort.


LOL. They have different styles, but Crosby can dominate the game like no other. When healthy, he's the best player in the universe. However, who gives a **** at this point.
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Re: Where is Malkin? "Earth to Malkin, Come in Malkin......"

Postby It'sagreatdayforhockey! on Fri Apr 05, 2013 10:00 am

DontToewsMeBro wrote:LGP is the only place where a PPG pace is considered "lazy" and there is quibbling over who is the best generational talent on our team.



It's a nice break from all the losing.


He is only considered lazy when he isn't scoring, because he doesn't play defense or try... except for his team leading takeways/game. He is considered selfish when he is scoring though, because he is trying to do too much and skate through 5 guys on his own. He can't win.
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Re: Where is Malkin? "Earth to Malkin, Come in Malkin......"

Postby Penspal on Fri Apr 05, 2013 10:12 am

When Geno is playing well, he is often mentioned with Crosby in being the best in the league. This year, by many account (Opposing team broadcasters, hockey media, other boards), I am not hearing/reading that, it seems to be widely viewed as Sid as a clear #1. I think that is understood that due to injuries, Geno is not having his best year, but its still pretty damn good (even elite). With the addition of strong players who will find their roles, Geno will get healthy and be supported by good players.

Perhaps we can all agree that we hope to see Geno at his best in the very near future?
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Re: Where is Malkin? "Earth to Malkin, Come in Malkin......"

Postby DocEmrick on Fri Apr 05, 2013 10:18 am

widget
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Re: Where is Malkin? "Earth to Malkin, Come in Malkin......"

Postby Pitts on Fri Apr 05, 2013 10:34 am

columbia wrote:IO don't agree with the sentiment, but that's hardly trolling.

It's not trolling. It's just flat out wrong.
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Re: Where is Malkin? "Earth to Malkin, Come in Malkin......"

Postby headh on Fri Apr 05, 2013 10:41 am

Pitts wrote:
columbia wrote:IO don't agree with the sentiment, but that's hardly trolling.

It's not trolling. It's just flat out wrong.



You may be right but I'd be more interested in your defense than your conclusion. What is your thought process?

Mine is simple...Geno and Sid have very similar skill levels but Geno is just bigger. Sid has greater discipline and consistency but Geno has a higher athletic ceiling and therefore is capable of greater things. Their accomplishments are very similar.

Awards and achievements




NHL All-Star Game – 2008, 2009, 2011, 2012
NHL All-Star Game SuperSkills Competition: "Accuracy Shooting" Winner – 2009
NHL First All-Star Team – 2008, 2009, 2012
Calder Memorial Trophy (Rookie of the Year) – 2007[23]
Hart Memorial Trophy (League MVP) – 2012
Ted Lindsay Award (Most Outstanding Player) – 2012
Art Ross Trophy (Regular Season Scoring Leader) – 2009, 2012
Conn Smythe Trophy (Playoff MVP) – 2009[24]
NHL Stanley Cup Champion – 2009[24]
NHL 2009 Stanley Cup Playoffs – Point Scoring Leader (36)
Michel Brière Rookie of the Year Award (Pittsburgh Penguins' Rookie of the Year) – 2007 (shared with Jordan Staal)
Pittsburgh Penguins' (MVP) – 2008, 2009, 2012

(IIHF) World Championships – (All-Star Team) 2007, 2010, 2012
(IIHF) World Championships – (Best Forward) 2012
(IIHF) World Championships – (Most Valuable Player) 2012
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Re: Where is Malkin? "Earth to Malkin, Come in Malkin......"

Postby VENOM on Fri Apr 05, 2013 10:50 am

headh wrote:
quoteAwards and achievements


NHL All-Star Game – 2008, 2009, 2011, 2012
NHL All-Star Game SuperSkills Competition: "Accuracy Shooting" Winner – 2009
NHL First All-Star Team – 2008, 2009, 2012
Calder Memorial Trophy (Rookie of the Year) – 2007[23]
Hart Memorial Trophy (League MVP) – 2012
Ted Lindsay Award (Most Outstanding Player) – 2012
Art Ross Trophy (Regular Season Scoring Leader) – 2009, 2012
Conn Smythe Trophy (Playoff MVP) – 2009[24]
NHL Stanley Cup Champion – 2009[24]
NHL 2009 Stanley Cup Playoffs – Point Scoring Leader (36)
Michel Brière Rookie of the Year Award (Pittsburgh Penguins' Rookie of the Year) – 2007 (shared with Jordan Staal)
Pittsburgh Penguins' (MVP) – 2008, 2009, 2012

(IIHF) World Championships – (All-Star Team) 2007, 2010, 2012
(IIHF) World Championships – (Best Forward) 2012
(IIHF) World Championships – (Most Valuable Player) 2012


2013 = ONLY 6 goals
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Re: Where is Malkin? "Earth to Malkin, Come in Malkin......"

Postby DontToewsMeBro on Fri Apr 05, 2013 10:55 am

Pitts wrote:
columbia wrote:IO don't agree with the sentiment, but that's hardly trolling.

It's not trolling. It's just flat out wrong.


After seeing Malkin basically dominate the KHL, a lot of NHL fans weren't debating if Malkin would win the scoring title, but by how many points. He was the so-called "best player in the world" not even 4 months ago. In hindsight, it's easy to suggest that nobody should have ever underestimated Sid. The fact that Malkin has flirted with the "best player" title is evidence that the gap between the two isn't as large as many here would suggest. It certainly isn't trolling and the case could be made that based upon his accomplishments, Malkin is the more successful (not the subjective "best") player at this point.

It scares me that Sid's career is starting to take on a "well, if we extrapolate the numbers to a whole season..." feel to it. I think Sidney is the "best" player in the world, but the gap between him and Geno isn't as large as everyone thinks. This board is completely bipolar when it comes to player accomplishments and team success, so it doesn't surprise me that a lot of posters turn on the guy who has repeatedly carried this team in every season Crosby's been out of the lineup.
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Re: Where is Malkin? "Earth to Malkin, Come in Malkin......"

Postby shmenguin on Fri Apr 05, 2013 10:56 am

headh wrote:You may be right but I'd be more interested in your defense than your conclusion. What is your thought process?

Mine is simple...Geno and Sid have very similar skill levels but Geno is just bigger. Sid has greater discipline and consistency but Geno has a higher athletic ceiling and therefore is capable of greater things. Their accomplishments are very similar.


dude...sid at his best is unmatched. it's been over a decade since anyone has sniffed that level of play. it doesn't mean that malkin isn't great, but come one.
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Re: Where is Malkin? "Earth to Malkin, Come in Malkin......"

Postby Idoit40fans on Fri Apr 05, 2013 10:59 am

The discussion about who the best player in the world is only occurs when Crosby is out for an extended period of time. Now it sucks that that trend is able to exist, but everyone forgets that there was even a discussion when he is playing. That is because no one is close to him.
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Re: Where is Malkin? "Earth to Malkin, Come in Malkin......"

Postby SolidSnake on Fri Apr 05, 2013 11:01 am

If it wasn't for Sid this season, I think the Pens would be battling for a playoff spot right now.
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Re: Where is Malkin? "Earth to Malkin, Come in Malkin......"

Postby tfrizz on Fri Apr 05, 2013 11:03 am

headh wrote:
Pitts wrote:
columbia wrote:IO don't agree with the sentiment, but that's hardly trolling.

It's not trolling. It's just flat out wrong.



You may be right but I'd be more interested in your defense than your conclusion. What is your thought process?

Mine is simple...Geno and Sid have very similar skill levels but Geno is just bigger. Sid has greater discipline and consistency but Geno has a higher athletic ceiling and therefore is capable of greater things. Their accomplishments are very similar.

Awards and achievements




NHL All-Star Game – 2008, 2009, 2011, 2012
NHL All-Star Game SuperSkills Competition: "Accuracy Shooting" Winner – 2009
NHL First All-Star Team – 2008, 2009, 2012
Calder Memorial Trophy (Rookie of the Year) – 2007[23]
Hart Memorial Trophy (League MVP) – 2012
Ted Lindsay Award (Most Outstanding Player) – 2012
Art Ross Trophy (Regular Season Scoring Leader) – 2009, 2012
Conn Smythe Trophy (Playoff MVP) – 2009[24]
NHL Stanley Cup Champion – 2009[24]
NHL 2009 Stanley Cup Playoffs – Point Scoring Leader (36)
Michel Brière Rookie of the Year Award (Pittsburgh Penguins' Rookie of the Year) – 2007 (shared with Jordan Staal)
Pittsburgh Penguins' (MVP) – 2008, 2009, 2012

(IIHF) World Championships – (All-Star Team) 2007, 2010, 2012
(IIHF) World Championships – (Best Forward) 2012
(IIHF) World Championships – (Most Valuable Player) 2012


Here's the thing with awards: how many has Crosby missed out on due to injuries?
  • Crosby led the NHL in points/game in 2006-07 (1.52), 2010-11 (1.61), 2011-12 (1.68), and 2012-13 (1.56) yet only has 1 Art Ross trophy to his name (2006-07).
  • He's been, without a doubt, the best player in hockey each of the past 3 seasons but missed out on Hart/Lindsay trophies because he hasn't played more than 41 games in any one of them.

Even the Calder Trophy... as an 18-year-old fresh out of junior, he lost the Calder Trophy to a 20-year-old Ovechkin who already had 4 pro seasons (Russian Elite) under his belt.

Unfortunately, a freak injury is likely going to cost him both the Art Ross again this year as Stamkos only needs 9 points in his 12 remaining games to pass Crosby and there's a good chance he'll lose the Hart to Ovechkin now that Washington has put themselves into the playoff picture - or even Tavares, with the NY Islanders looking good for a playoff appearance now.
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Re: Where is Malkin? "Earth to Malkin, Come in Malkin......"

Postby tfrizz on Fri Apr 05, 2013 11:05 am

SolidSnake wrote:If it wasn't for Sid this season, I think the Pens would be battling for a playoff spot right now.


Perhaps, but the Atlantic has been pretty weak this year. Regardless, Crosby has put this team on his back and carried them.
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Re: Where is Malkin? "Earth to Malkin, Come in Malkin......"

Postby shmenguin on Fri Apr 05, 2013 11:09 am

over the last 2 years, we've missed letang more than anyone when he's been out. we'd still be fine without sid if he was in the lineup every night.

well...fine until the playoffs anyways
Last edited by shmenguin on Fri Apr 05, 2013 11:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Where is Malkin? "Earth to Malkin, Come in Malkin......"

Postby headh on Fri Apr 05, 2013 11:09 am

shmenguin wrote:
headh wrote:You may be right but I'd be more interested in your defense than your conclusion. What is your thought process?

Mine is simple...Geno and Sid have very similar skill levels but Geno is just bigger. Sid has greater discipline and consistency but Geno has a higher athletic ceiling and therefore is capable of greater things. Their accomplishments are very similar.


dude...sid at his best is unmatched. it's been over a decade since anyone has sniffed that level of play. it doesn't mean that malkin isn't great, but come one.



Actually I think you are factually inaccurate. Sid got 1.5 points per game this season which is 2013. 56 points in 36 games.

Geno got 1.4 points per game in 2012 as he won the NHL MVP award. He tallied 109 points in 75 games. So one year ago Geno was playing at the same level.
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