Where is Malkin? "Earth to Malkin, Come in Malkin......"

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Re: Where is Malkin? "Earth to Malkin, Come in Malkin......"

Postby shmenguin on Fri Apr 05, 2013 11:10 am

headh wrote:
shmenguin wrote:
headh wrote:You may be right but I'd be more interested in your defense than your conclusion. What is your thought process?

Mine is simple...Geno and Sid have very similar skill levels but Geno is just bigger. Sid has greater discipline and consistency but Geno has a higher athletic ceiling and therefore is capable of greater things. Their accomplishments are very similar.


dude...sid at his best is unmatched. it's been over a decade since anyone has sniffed that level of play. it doesn't mean that malkin isn't great, but come one.



Actually I think you are factually inaccurate. Sid got 1.5 points per game this season which is 2013. 56 points in 36 games.

Geno got 1.4 points per game in 2012 as he won the NHL MVP award. He tallied 109 points in 75 games. So one year ago Geno was playing at the same level.


blech. nevermind. not worth it
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Re: Where is Malkin? "Earth to Malkin, Come in Malkin......"

Postby headh on Fri Apr 05, 2013 11:15 am

shmenguin wrote:
headh wrote:
shmenguin wrote:
headh wrote:You may be right but I'd be more interested in your defense than your conclusion. What is your thought process?

Mine is simple...Geno and Sid have very similar skill levels but Geno is just bigger. Sid has greater discipline and consistency but Geno has a higher athletic ceiling and therefore is capable of greater things. Their accomplishments are very similar.


dude...sid at his best is unmatched. it's been over a decade since anyone has sniffed that level of play. it doesn't mean that malkin isn't great, but come one.



Actually I think you are factually inaccurate. Sid got 1.5 points per game this season which is 2013. 56 points in 36 games.

Geno got 1.4 points per game in 2012 as he won the NHL MVP award. He tallied 109 points in 75 games. So one year ago Geno was playing at the same level.


blech. nevermind. not worth it


If I were you and had zero footing to stand on I'd come to the same conclusion. If you can come up with a valid point I'd be very interested.
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Re: Where is Malkin? "Earth to Malkin, Come in Malkin......"

Postby DontToewsMeBro on Fri Apr 05, 2013 11:17 am

Idoit40fans wrote:The discussion about who the best player in the world is only occurs when Crosby is out for an extended period of time. Now it sucks that that trend is able to exist, but everyone forgets that there was even a discussion when he is playing. That is because no one is close to him.


there's a reason that the discussion occurs. Sidney Crosby is not Wayne Gretzky. I agree that Sid is (on average) a better and more consistent player, but the gap is certainly not as wide as some think.
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Re: Where is Malkin? "Earth to Malkin, Come in Malkin......"

Postby Bioshock on Fri Apr 05, 2013 11:23 am

Lol, shmenguin just walk away dude. This isn't worth your time.

That's what i did a page ago.
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Re: Where is Malkin? "Earth to Malkin, Come in Malkin......"

Postby headh on Fri Apr 05, 2013 11:25 am

Bioshock wrote:Lol, shmenguin just walk away dude. This isn't worth your time.

That's what i did a page ago.


trying to argue that one is head and shoulders above the other is a total waste of time.

My point is simply that they are on even ability levels and the size of the players is the biggest difference.
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Re: Where is Malkin? "Earth to Malkin, Come in Malkin......"

Postby Kovy27 on Fri Apr 05, 2013 11:27 am

headh wrote:
Bioshock wrote:Lol, shmenguin just walk away dude. This isn't worth your time.

That's what i did a page ago.


trying to argue that one is head and shoulders above the other is a total waste of time.

My point is simply that they are on even ability levels and the size of the players is the biggest difference.


However, you did say in this thread that Malkin is better than Crosby...multiple times.
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Re: Where is Malkin? "Earth to Malkin, Come in Malkin......"

Postby tfrizz on Fri Apr 05, 2013 11:30 am

shmenguin wrote:
headh wrote:
shmenguin wrote:
headh wrote:You may be right but I'd be more interested in your defense than your conclusion. What is your thought process?

Mine is simple...Geno and Sid have very similar skill levels but Geno is just bigger. Sid has greater discipline and consistency but Geno has a higher athletic ceiling and therefore is capable of greater things. Their accomplishments are very similar.


dude...sid at his best is unmatched. it's been over a decade since anyone has sniffed that level of play. it doesn't mean that malkin isn't great, but come one.



Actually I think you are factually inaccurate. Sid got 1.5 points per game this season which is 2013. 56 points in 36 games.

Geno got 1.4 points per game in 2012 as he won the NHL MVP award. He tallied 109 points in 75 games. So one year ago Geno was playing at the same level.


blech. nevermind. not worth it


Allow me to help:

0.1 points per game is an 8-9 point difference over the course of an 82 game season. I'm fairly certain that'd be classified as "dominance" by almost anyone.

Or we could go with... Crosby has lead the NHL in points per game each of the last 3 seasons. His 1.61 points per game prior to being concussed in 2010-11 was rivaled by noone; Daniel Sedin finished the season second best at 1.27 points per game. Last year, Malkin took home the Art Ross by putting up 1.45 points/game yet it didn't hold a candle to Crosby's 1.68 points per game despite his career being in question. This season, Crosby's 1.56 points per game is in the driver's seat once again with Lupul ranking second at 1.40 points per game and Stamkos third at 1.33 points per game.

I would compare career best numbers, but I think this makes a stronger argument: Malkin put up a career best 1.45 points per game last season, as you mentioned, en route to his second Art Ross trophy. Crosby, in comparison, is averaging 1.41 points per game over his NHL career. To compare in real numbers, Malkin's best offensive output equates to 118.9 points in 82 games while Crosby's average offensive output would be 115.6 points in 82 games. You read that right - Crosby's average output falls only about 3 points shy of Malkin's best.

Crosby's best, 1.68 points per game last season, comes in at 137.8 points in 82 games. The last time someone put up numbers that high was Lemieux with 161 in 1995-96. The next closest Art Ross winner was Jagr with 127 points in 1998-99.
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Re: Where is Malkin? "Earth to Malkin, Come in Malkin......"

Postby Idoit40fans on Fri Apr 05, 2013 11:31 am

DontToewsMeBro wrote:
Idoit40fans wrote:The discussion about who the best player in the world is only occurs when Crosby is out for an extended period of time. Now it sucks that that trend is able to exist, but everyone forgets that there was even a discussion when he is playing. That is because no one is close to him.


there's a reason that the discussion occurs. Sidney Crosby is not Wayne Gretzky. I agree that Sid is (on average) a better and more consistent player, but the gap is certainly not as wide as some think.


Even if Crosby missed the same number of games, but was never out of the lineup for more than a month at a time, the discussion would have never occurred once. The gap is not as small as most think.
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Re: Where is Malkin? "Earth to Malkin, Come in Malkin......"

Postby Bioshock on Fri Apr 05, 2013 11:36 am

tfrizz wrote:
shmenguin wrote:
headh wrote:
shmenguin wrote:
headh wrote:You may be right but I'd be more interested in your defense than your conclusion. What is your thought process?

Mine is simple...Geno and Sid have very similar skill levels but Geno is just bigger. Sid has greater discipline and consistency but Geno has a higher athletic ceiling and therefore is capable of greater things. Their accomplishments are very similar.


dude...sid at his best is unmatched. it's been over a decade since anyone has sniffed that level of play. it doesn't mean that malkin isn't great, but come one.



Actually I think you are factually inaccurate. Sid got 1.5 points per game this season which is 2013. 56 points in 36 games.

Geno got 1.4 points per game in 2012 as he won the NHL MVP award. He tallied 109 points in 75 games. So one year ago Geno was playing at the same level.


blech. nevermind. not worth it


Allow me to help:

0.1 points per game is an 8-9 point difference over the course of an 82 game season. I'm fairly certain that'd be classified as "dominance" by almost anyone.

Or we could go with... Crosby has lead the NHL in points per game each of the last 3 seasons. His 1.61 points per game prior to being concussed in 2010-11 was rivaled by noone; Daniel Sedin finished the season second best at 1.27 points per game. Last year, Malkin took home the Art Ross by putting up 1.45 points/game yet it didn't hold a candle to Crosby's 1.68 points per game despite his career being in question. This season, Crosby's 1.56 points per game is in the driver's seat once again with Lupul ranking second at 1.40 points per game and Stamkos third at 1.33 points per game.

I would compare career best numbers, but I think this makes a stronger argument: Malkin put up a career best 1.45 points per game last season, as you mentioned, en route to his second Art Ross trophy. Crosby, in comparison, is averaging 1.41 points per game over his NHL career. To compare in real numbers, Malkin's best offensive output equates to 118.9 points in 82 games while Crosby's average offensive output would be 115.6 points in 82 games. You read that right - Crosby's average output falls only about 3 points shy of Malkin's best.

Crosby's best, 1.68 points per game last season, comes in at 137.8 points in 82 games. The last time someone put up numbers that high was Lemieux with 161 in 1995-96. The next closest Art Ross winner was Jagr with 127 points in 1998-99.


Thank you. I don't have the time or patience to look all that up while on lunch break.

/topic
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Re: Where is Malkin? "Earth to Malkin, Come in Malkin......"

Postby sil on Fri Apr 05, 2013 11:40 am

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Re: Where is Malkin? "Earth to Malkin, Come in Malkin......"

Postby headh on Fri Apr 05, 2013 11:40 am

Kovy27 wrote:
headh wrote:
Bioshock wrote:Lol, shmenguin just walk away dude. This isn't worth your time.

That's what i did a page ago.


trying to argue that one is head and shoulders above the other is a total waste of time.

My point is simply that they are on even ability levels and the size of the players is the biggest difference.


However, you did say in this thread that Malkin is better than Crosby...multiple times.



yes. But that's just my opinion. Statistically it's very difficult to dispute that they are similarly productive when healthy.

I simply can't figure out why Penguin fans would get so emotional over me defending one of the greatest Penguins in history. The guy is a hero in this city right up until the point that Crosby decides to play. As soon as Sid laces em up Geno is supposedly a malcontent. It's laughable.
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Re: Where is Malkin? "Earth to Malkin, Come in Malkin......"

Postby slappybrown on Fri Apr 05, 2013 11:41 am

tfrizz wrote:
Unfortunately, a freak injury is likely going to cost him both the Art Ross again this year as Stamkos only needs 9 points in his 12 remaining games to pass Crosby and there's a good chance he'll lose the Hart to Ovechkin now that Washington has put themselves into the playoff picture - or even Tavares, with the NY Islanders looking good for a playoff appearance now.


I agree with you on the Ross, but unless Wash/NYI go on some insane tear and go 10-2 or something like that, I can't see either of Ovi/Tavares being a finalist, let alone winning it.

I still think Crosby is the most likely winner despite the fact that he probably will miss a quarter of the season. If anyone edges him out, I think its more likely to be Patrick Kane. Top 5 in scoring in the NHL and top scorer on the likely President's Trophy winners is a hard resume to beat. Ovechkin was so lost at the start of the year, and winning the worst division in the NHL isn't going to impress anyone. Tavares won't even come close to Sid's total points despite Sid's injury.
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Re: Where is Malkin? "Earth to Malkin, Come in Malkin......"

Postby Bioshock on Fri Apr 05, 2013 11:42 am

headh wrote:
Kovy27 wrote:
headh wrote:
Bioshock wrote:Lol, shmenguin just walk away dude. This isn't worth your time.

That's what i did a page ago.


trying to argue that one is head and shoulders above the other is a total waste of time.

My point is simply that they are on even ability levels and the size of the players is the biggest difference.


However, you did say in this thread that Malkin is better than Crosby...multiple times.



yes. But that's just my opinion. Statistically it's very difficult to dispute that they are similarly productive when healthy.

I simply can't figure out why Penguin fans would get so emotional over me defending one of the greatest Penguins in history. The guy is a hero in this city right up until the point that Crosby decides to play. As soon as Sid laces em up Geno is supposedly a malcontent. It's laughable.


Lol, now he's a malcontent because we come at you with hard cold numbers? Just stop dude...
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Re: Where is Malkin? "Earth to Malkin, Come in Malkin......"

Postby sil on Fri Apr 05, 2013 11:42 am

headh wrote:Statistically it's very difficult to dispute that they are similarly productive when healthy.


Take your index finger, place it on your mouse scroll, and push upward away from you.
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Re: Where is Malkin? "Earth to Malkin, Come in Malkin......"

Postby headh on Fri Apr 05, 2013 11:47 am

sil wrote:
headh wrote:Statistically it's very difficult to dispute that they are similarly productive when healthy.


Take your index finger, place it on your mouse scroll, and push upward away from you.



One is 4th and the other is 11th in the history of the game in PPG. In the history of the game. Take your hands, put them on your head, and pull it.... out of your sphincter

http://www.hockey-reference.com/leaders ... areer.html
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Re: Where is Malkin? "Earth to Malkin, Come in Malkin......"

Postby sil on Fri Apr 05, 2013 11:53 am

But it took so much effort to get in there!
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Re: Where is Malkin? "Earth to Malkin, Come in Malkin......"

Postby tfrizz on Fri Apr 05, 2013 11:53 am

headh wrote:One is 4th and the other is 11th in the history of the game in PPG. In the history of the game.


Correct, so let's see how it plays out.


Crosby => 1.415 * 82 = 116.03 points per 82 games
Malkin => 1.226 * 82 = 100.52 points per 82 games


15.51 point/season difference. Yup... small gap.
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Re: Where is Malkin? "Earth to Malkin, Come in Malkin......"

Postby headh on Fri Apr 05, 2013 11:53 am

Bioshock wrote:
Thank you. I don't have the time or patience to look all that up while on lunch break.

/topic



Did you have the time or patience to actually watch us win the Stanley Cup? Without Malkin, the Conn Smythe trophy winner, we don't hoist that trophy.....bottom line.

I didn't give him that award over Sid.....the world gave him that award over Sid....they were both healthy and both playing on the brightest stage this game has to offer and Geno was the dominant force and leading scorer playing with Max freaking Talbot on his wing...
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Re: Where is Malkin? "Earth to Malkin, Come in Malkin......"

Postby Pitts on Fri Apr 05, 2013 11:53 am

headh wrote:
Pitts wrote:
columbia wrote:IO don't agree with the sentiment, but that's hardly trolling.

It's not trolling. It's just flat out wrong.

You may be right but I'd be more interested in your defense than your conclusion. What is your thought process?
Sid has greater discipline and consistency


You answered you own question. There is no doubt that when Sid is healthy and on the ice he is the most consistent player there is. He produces -- every single day. You can't say that about Malkin. All the size and athleticism means nothing if it isn't consistent. Not once do you ever see a thread entitled "Where in the world is Sidney Crosby?".
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Re: Where is Malkin? "Earth to Malkin, Come in Malkin......"

Postby headh on Fri Apr 05, 2013 11:54 am

sil wrote:But it took so much effort to get in there!


LOL...I just love me some Geno and hate it when Penguin fans bag on him. It's a great argument to have
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Re: Where is Malkin? "Earth to Malkin, Come in Malkin......"

Postby tfrizz on Fri Apr 05, 2013 11:57 am

headh wrote:
sil wrote:But it took so much effort to get in there!


LOL...I just love me some Geno and hate it when Penguin fans bag on him. It's a great argument to have


Just to make this clear, I'm not bagging on Malkin. I'm shooting down the notion that there is even the slightest shred of evidence to suggest that Malkin is better than Crosby. That's not a bad thing - as the numbers show, not only is Crosby the best of this generation but he ranks as one of the best all time.
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Re: Where is Malkin? "Earth to Malkin, Come in Malkin......"

Postby headh on Fri Apr 05, 2013 12:01 pm

Pitts wrote:
headh wrote:
Pitts wrote:
columbia wrote:IO don't agree with the sentiment, but that's hardly trolling.

It's not trolling. It's just flat out wrong.

You may be right but I'd be more interested in your defense than your conclusion. What is your thought process?
Sid has greater discipline and consistency


You answered you own question. There is no doubt that when Sid is healthy and on the ice he is the most consistent player there is. He produces -- every single day. You can't say that about Malkin. All the size and athleticism means nothing if it isn't consistent. Not once do you ever see a thread entitled "Where in the world is Sidney Crosby?".


I simply feel like a thread titled "Where is Malkin? Earth to Malkin, Come in Malkin....." is so incredibly insulting to a guy who just won the scoring championship in 2012 and is "down" to averaging "only" over a point per game in 2013 is beyond absurd. What on earth is the motivation to make one player out to be a hero and another out to be slacking malcontent? The title of this thread is a complete joke and there is zero justification for the thought process behind those words....zero
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Re: Where is Malkin? "Earth to Malkin, Come in Malkin......"

Postby headh on Fri Apr 05, 2013 12:04 pm

tfrizz wrote:
headh wrote:
sil wrote:But it took so much effort to get in there!


LOL...I just love me some Geno and hate it when Penguin fans bag on him. It's a great argument to have


Just to make this clear, I'm not bagging on Malkin. I'm shooting down the notion that there is even the slightest shred of evidence to suggest that Malkin is better than Crosby. That's not a bad thing - as the numbers show, not only is Crosby the best of this generation but he ranks as one of the best all time.



as the numbers show, not only are they both in the argument for the best of this generation but they both rank as among the best of all time.


Playoff goals per game (active)
Minimum 20 goals
Alex Ovechkin, 0.588
Martin St. Louis, 0.524
Jarome Iginla, 0.518
Sidney Crosby, 0.485
Evgeni Malkin, 0.471
Henrik Zetterberg, 0.468
Daniel Briere, 0.463
Jaromir Jagr, 0.433
Johan Franzen, 0.432
Daniel Alfredsson, 0.423
Claude Giroux, 0.420
Patrick Marleau, 0.403
Patrick Kane, 0.392
Vincent Lecavalier, 0.381
Teemu Selanne, 0.369



Playoff points per game
Minimum 50 points
Wayne Gretzky, 1.837
Mario Lemieux, 1.607
Barry Pederson, 1.529
Sidney Crosby, 1.324
Mark Messier, 1.250
Bobby Orr, 1.243
Mike Bossy, 1.240
Evgeni Malkin, 1.191
Jari Kurri, 1.165
Alexander Ovechkin, 1.157
Gilbert Perreault, 1.144
Peter Forsberg, 1.132
Peter Stastny, 1.129
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Re: Where is Malkin? "Earth to Malkin, Come in Malkin......"

Postby Pitts on Fri Apr 05, 2013 12:09 pm

headh wrote:I simply feel like a thread titled "Where is Malkin? Earth to Malkin, Come in Malkin....." is so incredibly insulting to a guy who just won the scoring championship in 2012 and is "down" to averaging "only" over a point per game in 2013 is beyond absurd. What on earth is the motivation to make one player out to be a hero and another out to be slacking malcontent? The title of this thread is a complete joke and there is zero justification for the thought process behind those words....zero

Well, I agree with that, as you can see by my rolling eyes as the first post. But, I do not believe he is or ever will be better than Crosby. Malkin IS inconsistent, sometimes to the point of being frustrating. But, he's hardly a player to complain about at this point. It's definitely great to have the 2nd best player on our team! :)
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Re: Where is Malkin? "Earth to Malkin, Come in Malkin......"

Postby Pitts on Fri Apr 05, 2013 12:10 pm

Wow...look who is right above Sidney for Playoff goals per game (active)!!!!!
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