OFFICIAL GDT: 4/5/13, PENS vs RANGERS

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Re: OFFICIAL GDT: 4/5/13, PENS vs RANGERS

Postby tfrizz on Fri Apr 05, 2013 11:36 pm

mikey287 wrote:
bhaw wrote:
mikey287 wrote:Am I misremembering? I thought Cooke started talking and then Nash joined in later and since there was no room along the ledge, he just came over and started yapping...I don't Nash was hiding from anyone...


Per the telecast, Nash slashed Cooke from the bench before this all happened.


Per our telecast? I don't believe them. But, let's give them the benefit of the doubt. I still don't see Nash hiding...he's 6'4", he's not hiding from Matt Cooke of all players...let's be serious for a moment...

@ a previous comment: Yeah, when you stretch pass into the 1-2-2, you obviously won't win. But the Penguins seem pretty content to rope-a-dope with them, I didn't notice a ton of DZ breakdowns...a couple certainly, a couple of scrambles (we are missing our best transitional and best defensive d-man)...but I wasn't really dissatisfied with our performance. The refs let them play, lots of defense and some hitting/emotion in there...I liked it.

You have a lot of new faces in weird places in the lineup, three players that handle a lot of transition (a ton) are out...you can't re-invent the wheel every night...they "trapped", we "trapped", the game ended in a 1-1 tie as far as I'm concerned. Put the Flyers one point further out, so that's fine with me too...

It was off camera, but Errey was the one who pointed it out and he was between the benches. I know he and Steigy are pretty big homers, but I can't see him making something like that up.
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Re: OFFICIAL GDT: 4/5/13, PENS vs RANGERS

Postby cma3585 on Fri Apr 05, 2013 11:36 pm

Can't find anything...anyone have a Youtube link of Murray obliterating Boyle?
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Re: OFFICIAL GDT: 4/5/13, PENS vs RANGERS

Postby mikey287 on Fri Apr 05, 2013 11:37 pm

Whether it happened or not, I'm not worried about it. [Crap] like that happens during the course of games...whether it's that particular thing exactly or something fairly equivalent, in a game like that, those things happen...no big deal...
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Re: OFFICIAL GDT: 4/5/13, PENS vs RANGERS

Postby Pavel Bure on Fri Apr 05, 2013 11:39 pm

cma3585 wrote:Can't find anything...anyone have a Youtube link of Murray obliterating Boyle?

I think we're gonna see teams avoid dumping the puck to Murray's corner.
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Re: OFFICIAL GDT: 4/5/13, PENS vs RANGERS

Postby Inkio on Fri Apr 05, 2013 11:43 pm

cma3585 wrote:Can't find anything...anyone have a Youtube link of Murray obliterating Boyle?


Go to highlights on the Penguins page. It's under Murray Mashes.
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Re: OFFICIAL GDT: 4/5/13, PENS vs RANGERS

Postby cma3585 on Fri Apr 05, 2013 11:43 pm

Errey is eagle-eyed and definitely not one to make things up, particularly when he's right there between the benches. Even his rant about Sutter playing the puck with his hand that should've been blown dead had some merit. I have no doubt in my mind Nash did something to Cooke from the bench.
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Re: OFFICIAL GDT: 4/5/13, PENS vs RANGERS

Postby The Snapshot on Fri Apr 05, 2013 11:46 pm

mikey287 wrote:I'm kind of on the fence about the Neal hit. The action and result were a lot worse than the intent. It's difficult to describe if you're not really "close" to the game, so to speak.

In that situation (going off memory, after watching it on the telecast and all the replays), Del Zotto wants to get a piece of Neal as to not lose him completely and slow him up as best he can. He doesn't intentionally try to conk him in the head...now, he most certainly did elbow him in the head, so if you want to take a look at that for that reason alone, sure...go nuts...

But the intent to injure isn't there in my opinion...that type of action happens quite a bit in a game, but it just rarely ends up with a player getting decked by an elbow...unfortunate for Neal, I hope he's ok. I don't think this was intentional though...in fact, I think MDZ and him are friends...


Reckless play with his elbow thrust backward that results in a concussion. I'm close to the game, and if that happened even in my beer league there would be justice.

The fact that he wasn't watching his elbow smash into Neal's jaw doesn't make it any less reckless. If you have to control your stick then you can't be throwing elbows like that, even if they are blind. Actually, that makes it worse.

How can that even be explained as a Hockey play? There is clear intent to deliver a blow in an aggressive sense, and he throws the elbow very hard. That has to be a suspension, especially because he was already reviewed in the playoffs last year after an elbow to Chris Neil.

Shanahan has also suspended guys for reckless play resulting in injury. It doesn't have to be clear intent to injure, and he also always talks about "hockey plays".
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Re: OFFICIAL GDT: 4/5/13, PENS vs RANGERS

Postby Orlando Penguin on Fri Apr 05, 2013 11:50 pm

mikey287 wrote:I'm kind of on the fence about the Neal hit. The action and result were a lot worse than the intent. It's difficult to describe if you're not really "close" to the game, so to speak.

In that situation (going off memory, after watching it on the telecast and all the replays), Del Zotto wants to get a piece of Neal as to not lose him completely and slow him up as best he can. He doesn't intentionally try to conk him in the head...now, he most certainly did elbow him in the head, so if you want to take a look at that for that reason alone, sure...go nuts...

But the intent to injure isn't there in my opinion...that type of action happens quite a bit in a game, but it just rarely ends up with a player getting decked by an elbow...unfortunate for Neal, I hope he's ok. I don't think this was intentional though...in fact, I think MDZ and him are friends...



I'm with ya on this one, Mikey. I felt like Del Zotto was trying to box him out from making that move around him behind the net and when he stuck out his arm to fend him off, he caught him up high. To me, it's similar to a basketball play where the same thing might happen. Being 5'7, I'd have this happen a couple of times when I'd try to get into the trees to steal a rebound. Since hockey is a faster sport, that collision to the head makes the effect that much worse.
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Re: OFFICIAL GDT: 4/5/13, PENS vs RANGERS

Postby DocEmrick on Fri Apr 05, 2013 11:53 pm

Trolling NHL.com articles is the freaking best
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Re: OFFICIAL GDT: 4/5/13, PENS vs RANGERS

Postby mikey287 on Sat Apr 06, 2013 12:01 am

Oh, I don't doubt there would be justice, I don't disagree that you should be in control of your elbow/stick/skates etc. ...no issue at all, you're 100% right.

He is trying to clip Neal, but not like what we see...this wasn't his intent, I don't believe. He wants to protect himself and the puck and so he braces for Neal coming from behind...when he realizes that Neal is actually going to go by him, he wants to get a piece of him to throw him off stride...so he swings around to get a piece of him. A very rough equivalent would be like a RB chipping a linebacker before going out to be a receiver. He just wants to get a piece, interfere a bit and move on with his task...this happens a lot (especially tonight, where the "zero tolerance" league we saw at the beginning of the year became a "some tolerance" league in recent weeks).

He comes up high, he catches Neal right on the button and we see the result. Terribly unfortunate, but I don't believe this to be an intentionally dirty play. He means to get Neal, yes. He doesn't mean to get him like that.

If you want to suspend him for clocking another player in the jaw with his elbow then I wouldn't disagree. It's worth a look. But it shouldn't be excessive punishment because I don't think MDZ had any real intent to injure him...it was careless, but not classless...
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Re: OFFICIAL GDT: 4/5/13, PENS vs RANGERS

Postby The Snapshot on Sat Apr 06, 2013 12:05 am

mikey287 wrote:Oh, I don't doubt there would be justice, I don't disagree that you should be in control of your elbow/stick/skates etc. ...no issue at all, you're 100% right.

He is trying to clip Neal, but not like what we see...this wasn't his intent, I don't believe. He wants to protect himself and the puck and so he braces for Neal coming from behind...when he realizes that Neal is actually going to go by him, he wants to get a piece of him to throw him off stride...so he swings around to get a piece of him. A very rough equivalent would be like a RB chipping a linebacker before going out to be a receiver. He just wants to get a piece, interfere a bit and move on with his task...this happens a lot (especially tonight, where the "zero tolerance" league we saw at the beginning of the year became a "some tolerance" league in recent weeks).

He comes up high, he catches Neal right on the button and we see the result. Terribly unfortunate, but I don't believe this to be an intentionally dirty play. He means to get Neal, yes. He doesn't mean to get him like that.

If you want to suspend him for clocking another player in the jaw with his elbow then I wouldn't disagree. It's worth a look. But it shouldn't be excessive punishment because I don't think MDZ had any real intent to injure him...it was careless, but not classless...


I can agree with this stance. I don't think he wanted to elbow Neal in the face, but he should be suspended for the result of the reckless use of his elbow resulting in an injury. I just think it has to be a game or two. Again, he has been under review for an elbow in last year's playoffs too.
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Re: OFFICIAL GDT: 4/5/13, PENS vs RANGERS

Postby mikey287 on Sat Apr 06, 2013 12:10 am

Sure, I would have no problem with it if he got a game or two. You're responsible for your body parts and equipment.
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Re: OFFICIAL GDT: 4/5/13, PENS vs RANGERS

Postby The Snapshot on Sat Apr 06, 2013 12:11 am

mikey287 wrote:Sure, I would have no problem with it if he got a game or two. You're responsible for your body parts and equipment.


I guess you thought we were hoping for a lifetime ban ala the owner of the Sens......

My problem with Del Zotto is that I think he is afraid of getting hit. That reaction was because he was so locked into "bracing himself" as he said - because he doesn't really like taking a hit. Kind of like Gonchar.
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Re: OFFICIAL GDT: 4/5/13, PENS vs RANGERS

Postby MRandall25 on Sat Apr 06, 2013 12:20 am

Image

My 1st time seeing it. That definitely looks like some sort of intent.
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Re: OFFICIAL GDT: 4/5/13, PENS vs RANGERS

Postby pens_srq on Sat Apr 06, 2013 12:24 am

That is Very Very suspendable
Like more than 2 games
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Re: OFFICIAL GDT: 4/5/13, PENS vs RANGERS

Postby Kharlamov on Sat Apr 06, 2013 12:26 am

DocEmrick wrote:Rick Nash is fat as hell


I know!

Image
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Re: OFFICIAL GDT: 4/5/13, PENS vs RANGERS

Postby The Snapshot on Sat Apr 06, 2013 12:37 am

MRandall25 wrote:Image

My 1st time seeing it. That definitely looks like some sort of intent.


Yeah, you can see that he sees Neal coming and wheels around with his elbow AND leaves his feet. That angle is pretty damning.
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Re: OFFICIAL GDT: 4/5/13, PENS vs RANGERS

Postby ivand87 on Sat Apr 06, 2013 12:41 am

The Snapshot wrote:
MRandall25 wrote:Image

My 1st time seeing it. That definitely looks like some sort of intent.


Yeah, you can see that he sees Neal coming and wheels around with his elbow AND leaves his feet. That angle is pretty damning.


Absolutely. Don't give me any crap about that being a routine type play. Is it somewhat reactionary? Sure. Did he know Neal was gonna be there though? Yes. Could he have avoided throwing that elbow into Neal's head? Absolutely. Should be a 3-game suspension. Likely will get a fine, if he gets anything at all though...
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Re: OFFICIAL GDT: 4/5/13, PENS vs RANGERS

Postby Steve Dave on Sat Apr 06, 2013 3:33 am

Was at the game (1st of the year), great atmosphere! Fleury was awesome! Saw Kennedy at Mario's on the South Side. My first time seeing a Penguin in person, felt like a kid again. You could tell he didn't want to be bothered (understandable) but my sister was able to finagle getting a picture with him.
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Re: OFFICIAL GDT: 4/5/13, PENS vs RANGERS

Postby Pens4Life on Sat Apr 06, 2013 3:55 am

My review of game :
Three stars of the game : 1.MAF ; 2.Jokinen ; 3.Nash

MAF stole the game for us,especially in the 3rd period and overtime.. Jokinen was flying and was a beast on faceoffs,had a good game with Duper and Kunitz. GENO looks out of form totally.. My god,Duper looks like a 8M player compared to Geno,who looks like a veteran on minimum deal.. His line was pretty awful last night,no chemistry.. Iginla wanted to do something,but had a bad game also,nothing worked for him..
Morrow was everywhere to half of the game,hitting,trying to cycle,then he was gased.. Cooke was old Cooke again,nice to see.

On D Murray was a wall again,I really like the guy. I hope we can keep him somehow.. The whole D team played good game,no one bad.

Game was tight one,a lot of board play,not much space for any team,could say it was "playoff" game. But we were dominated by Rags in 3rd period,too much defending a lead and that defensive oriented game costed us a win I think. We now see how much we lost on offensive end without Sid the kid.. Geno line doesnt do much,they were playing like a 3rd line yesterday. Im really dissapointed of Geno.
He didnt even shoot once!?! Now Neal is out (lets hope nothing serious) and there will be even harder that they gain some chemistry.

Maybe we should really consider putting Kuny on 2nd line and Jarome on 1st when all healthy.
Also Jokinen is a waste on 4th line,maybe we could dump someone else down to 4th line,when Sid and Neal are back.
Dupuis - Crosby - Iginla
Kunitz - Malkin - Neal
Jokinen - Sutter - Morrow (but JJ takes draws)
Cooke - Adams - Kennedy
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Re: OFFICIAL GDT: 4/5/13, PENS vs RANGERS

Postby pens2005 on Sat Apr 06, 2013 9:40 am

Pens4Life wrote:My review of game :
Three stars of the game : 1.MAF ; 2.Jokinen ; 3.Nash

MAF stole the game for us,especially in the 3rd period and overtime.. Jokinen was flying and was a beast on faceoffs,had a good game with Duper and Kunitz. GENO looks out of form totally.. My god,Duper looks like a 8M player compared to Geno,who looks like a veteran on minimum deal.. His line was pretty awful last night,no chemistry.. Iginla wanted to do something,but had a bad game also,nothing worked for him..
Morrow was everywhere to half of the game,hitting,trying to cycle,then he was gased.. Cooke was old Cooke again,nice to see.

On D Murray was a wall again,I really like the guy. I hope we can keep him somehow.. The whole D team played good game,no one bad.

Game was tight one,a lot of board play,not much space for any team,could say it was "playoff" game. But we were dominated by Rags in 3rd period,too much defending a lead and that defensive oriented game costed us a win I think. We now see how much we lost on offensive end without Sid the kid.. Geno line doesnt do much,they were playing like a 3rd line yesterday. Im really dissapointed of Geno.
He didnt even shoot once!?! Now Neal is out (lets hope nothing serious) and there will be even harder that they gain some chemistry.

Maybe we should really consider putting Kuny on 2nd line and Jarome on 1st when all healthy.
Also Jokinen is a waste on 4th line,maybe we could dump someone else down to 4th line,when Sid and Neal are back.
Dupuis - Crosby - Iginla
Kunitz - Malkin - Neal
Jokinen - Sutter - Morrow (but JJ takes draws)
Cooke - Adams - Kennedy


I think I agree with your line combos as one and two stand. I don't think Cooke should be on the 4th line.
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Re: OFFICIAL GDT: 4/5/13, PENS vs RANGERS

Postby mac5155 on Sat Apr 06, 2013 9:45 am

ivand87 wrote:
The Snapshot wrote:
MRandall25 wrote:Image

My 1st time seeing it. That definitely looks like some sort of intent.


Yeah, you can see that he sees Neal coming and wheels around with his elbow AND leaves his feet. That angle is pretty damning.


Absolutely. Don't give me any crap about that being a routine type play. Is it somewhat reactionary? Sure. Did he know Neal was gonna be there though? Yes. Could he have avoided throwing that elbow into Neal's head? Absolutely. Should be a 3-game suspension. Likely will get a fine, if he gets anything at all though...

There's definitely intent. If he was playing the puck his stick would go in the exact opposite direction.
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Re: OFFICIAL GDT: 4/5/13, PENS vs RANGERS

Postby BurghThing on Sat Apr 06, 2013 9:57 am

He left his feet to deliver a blow to the head. End of story, minimum 2 games. And if there was any real urgency by the league towards "player safety" all 4 of those on ice officials should be suspended as well.
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Re: OFFICIAL GDT: 4/5/13, PENS vs RANGERS

Postby Henry Hank on Sat Apr 06, 2013 9:59 am

The impact caused him to leave his feet, that was not a flying elbow.

I file it under careless/wreckless but not intentional. Personally I think careless should be suspendable but they usually don't see it that way.
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Re: OFFICIAL GDT: 4/5/13, PENS vs RANGERS

Postby pcm on Sat Apr 06, 2013 10:06 am

The impact of Neal hitting him would have made him fall down. He left his feet to throw himself into the hit. Still falls into careless/reckless.
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