Neal skates...

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Re: Neal skates...

Postby Steve Dave on Sat Apr 06, 2013 3:43 am

What did Dupuis get a penalty for? I was at the game and didn't see a replay. He was called for Unsportsmanlike I think. Right before the whistle he attempted to run a Rags player through the end boards. Was this why?
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Re: Neal skates...

Postby midd on Sat Apr 06, 2013 6:04 am

Yes I think it was. Officiating was not good as the game went on. I liked the fact they let the teams play but things were getting out of hand in the third.
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Re: Neal skates...

Postby Shakes on Sat Apr 06, 2013 6:38 am

I thought that was a good call. You can't attempt to run a guy after an icing.
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Re: Neal skates...

Postby tikidoc on Sat Apr 06, 2013 7:25 am

lemieuxReturns wrote:Can you be knocked out without suffering a concussion?


No. The definition of a concussion is a head injury resulting in a temporary loss of brain function. Loss of consciousness = loss of brain function. As does headache, nausea, visual changes, memory loss, and other symptoms.

If you are knocked out, by definition, you are concussed. Period.
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Re: Neal skates...

Postby tikidoc on Sat Apr 06, 2013 7:30 am

Inkio wrote:
lemieuxReturns wrote:Can you be knocked out without suffering a concussion?


I was attacked with metal pipe to the back of my head. Knocked me out for 10 seconds, got up said what the hell happened. Got checked out and had no concussion. Sure is possible.

P.S.
I wasn't able to watch the game. Any video on the hit yet?


Yes, you had a concussion. Possibly a mild one, but you had a concussion.
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Re: Neal skates...

Postby tikidoc on Sat Apr 06, 2013 7:40 am

Pitt87 wrote:
lemieuxReturns wrote:Can you be knocked out without suffering a concussion?


Absolutely. There is actually a nerve in the area of your chin/mouth that can be hit just right and turn everything off for just a second. It looks just like Neal did skating off the ice; poor balance, disoriented, but otherwise fine.


Funny, they never taught us about this magic nerve in medical school, even when we did a complete dissection of the head.

Seriously though, boxers do tend to get more frequent and severe concussions than other athletes that commonly get blows to the head because of the rotational forces involved when you get punched in the jaw. If you get punched from the side, your head snaps back but also rotates, and the brain essentially does the same thing inside your head. Rotational injuries are more likely to affect the midbrain, which in turn results in loss of consciousness. This is why boxers get knocked out a lot, not because of a nerve in the chin that turns out the lights.
Last edited by tikidoc on Sat Apr 06, 2013 7:59 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Neal skates...

Postby Eismann on Sat Apr 06, 2013 7:45 am

Broken left Karma. Out 4-6 lifetimes.
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Re: Neal skates...

Postby pittsoccer33 on Sat Apr 06, 2013 8:04 am

Inkio wrote:I wasn't able to watch the game. Any video on the hit yet?


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Re: Neal skates...

Postby pressure=9Pa on Sat Apr 06, 2013 8:16 am

Steve Dave wrote:What did Dupuis get a penalty for? I was at the game and didn't see a replay. He was called for Unsportsmanlike I think. Right before the whistle he attempted to run a Rags player through the end boards. Was this why?


Attempting to hit after an icing call. I don't think he was trying to be dirty, I think he lost concentration and didn't realize an icing call was coming. Perhaps the linesman wasn't as demonstrative as he should have been either. Even without contact, attmept to hit is a penalty by the book, and it had to be called. I remember Rupp got a misconduct on a similar play a couple of years ago when one ref was yelling "no ice" and the linesman overruled and called icing.
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Re: Neal skates...

Postby Pensfan4life27 on Sat Apr 06, 2013 8:30 am

The linesman put his hand up late on the play and Dupis assumed they waved off icing. I'd put it more on the linesman raising his arm late.
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Re: Neal skates...

Postby Inkio on Sat Apr 06, 2013 8:59 am

tikidoc wrote:
Inkio wrote:
lemieuxReturns wrote:Can you be knocked out without suffering a concussion?


I was attacked with metal pipe to the back of my head. Knocked me out for 10 seconds, got up said what the hell happened. Got checked out and had no concussion. Sure is possible.

P.S.
I wasn't able to watch the game. Any video on the hit yet?


Yes, you had a concussion. Possibly a mild one, but you had a concussion.


No it doesn't. Having a cat scan and being examined by doctors they all said there was no concussion, why would they lie? Why wouldn't they say you have a mild concussion? Especially if I went home and went to bed and died in my sleep then they would be liable for malpractice by saying there was nothing wrong when there was. I had no headache or concussion like symptoms either. I asked the doctors how it was possible to be knocked out and not have a concussion and they said that it's possible that sudden impact can cause you to black out but if your brain did not get pressed against the wall of your skull it isn't a concussion. From seeing the hit he had a sudden impact the the face which would make most people get dazed and black out.
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Re: Neal skates...

Postby Penspal on Sat Apr 06, 2013 9:01 am

It should have been a penalty (2 mins - elbow is an elbow - intentional or otherwise). Curious to see what Sherrif Shanny & the Deputies Dawgs do with dis one.
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Re: Neal skates...

Postby nastystang05 on Sat Apr 06, 2013 9:02 am

tikidoc wrote:
lemieuxReturns wrote:Can you be knocked out without suffering a concussion?


No. The definition of a concussion is a head injury resulting in a temporary loss of brain function. Loss of consciousness = loss of brain function. As does headache, nausea, visual changes, memory loss, and other symptoms.

If you are knocked out, by definition, you are concussed. Period.

Nice post. The fact that he was out less than 15 seconds is good. 15 or more automatically puts you at 7 times more likely to have concussion symptoms lasting greater than 7-10 days.
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Re: Neal skates...

Postby nastystang05 on Sat Apr 06, 2013 9:02 am

tikidoc wrote:
lemieuxReturns wrote:Can you be knocked out without suffering a concussion?


No. The definition of a concussion is a head injury resulting in a temporary loss of brain function. Loss of consciousness = loss of brain function. As does headache, nausea, visual changes, memory loss, and other symptoms.

If you are knocked out, by definition, you are concussed. Period.

Nice post. The fact that he was out less than 15 seconds is good. 15 or more automatically puts you at 7 times more likely to have concussion symptoms lasting greater than 7-10 days.
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Re: Neal skates...

Postby KG on Sat Apr 06, 2013 9:07 am

Dirty elbow by Del Zotto. Hopefully he gets some type of discipline. Rangers announcers failed to mention the cheap elbow, yet they were all over Cooke's slash to Lundqvist (which was stupid). But not nearly as severe as that elbow...
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Re: Neal skates...

Postby Rocco on Sat Apr 06, 2013 9:08 am

How would anyone notice if he's in or out of the lineup?
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Re: Neal skates...

Postby pittsoccer33 on Sat Apr 06, 2013 9:15 am

KG wrote:Dirty elbow by Del Zotto. Hopefully he gets some type of discipline. Rangers announcers failed to mention the cheap elbow, yet they were all over Cooke's slash to Lundqvist (which was stupid). But not nearly as severe as that elbow...


i really think it was an accident. how could he have seen where neal was behind him?
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Re: Neal skates...

Postby slappybrown on Sat Apr 06, 2013 9:17 am

Not intentional, IMO. Maybe negligent, but if I am Shanahan, I don't do anything. Just unfortunate.
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Re: Neal skates...

Postby Tico Rick on Sat Apr 06, 2013 9:18 am

pittsoccer33 wrote:
Inkio wrote:I wasn't able to watch the game. Any video on the hit yet?




Seeing the replay, it's hard to believe that wasn't intentional. And intentional or not, that should have been a penalty.
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Re: Neal skates...

Postby Gaucho on Sat Apr 06, 2013 9:21 am

Rocco wrote:How would anyone notice if he's in or out of the lineup?


:thumbdown:
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Re: Neal skates...

Postby tikidoc on Sat Apr 06, 2013 9:25 am

Inkio wrote:
tikidoc wrote:
Inkio wrote:
lemieuxReturns wrote:Can you be knocked out without suffering a concussion?


I was attacked with metal pipe to the back of my head. Knocked me out for 10 seconds, got up said what the hell happened. Got checked out and had no concussion. Sure is possible.

P.S.
I wasn't able to watch the game. Any video on the hit yet?


Yes, you had a concussion. Possibly a mild one, but you had a concussion.


No it doesn't. Having a cat scan and being examined by doctors they all said there was no concussion, why would they lie? Why wouldn't they say you have a mild concussion? Especially if I went home and went to bed and died in my sleep then they would be liable for malpractice by saying there was nothing wrong when there was. I had no headache or concussion like symptoms either. I asked the doctors how it was possible to be knocked out and not have a concussion and they said that it's possible that sudden impact can cause you to black out but if your brain did not get pressed against the wall of your skull it isn't a concussion. From seeing the hit he had a sudden impact the the face which would make most people get dazed and black out.


You don't use a CT scan to diagnose a concussion (or to rule one out), you use a CT scan to make sure there isn't something worse, such as bleeding in or around the brain. If something shows up on your CT, that's more than a simple concussion. As for why they said what they said, I can't tell you, but they were incorrect. The American Association Of Neurological Surgeons defines a concussion as "an injury to the brain that results in temporary loss of normal brain function." A blow to the head associated with a loss of consciousness fits that definition. If you black out, you have injured your brain. It might be a mild injury, it may be 100% reversible, but that is a concussion, by definition.
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Re: Neal skates...

Postby marek on Sat Apr 06, 2013 10:33 am

Shanahan cannot and will never discipline a member of his own team... He still believes that he's a red wing, devil, and new york ranger... And he prob still thinks there's a team still playing in Hartford.
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Re: Neal skates...

Postby tikidoc on Sat Apr 06, 2013 10:46 am

Just wanted to clarify a bit. The diagnosis of a concussion is a purely clinical diagnosis. What that means is that you go by symptoms, physical exam, and history when making the diagnosis of a concussion. There is no imaging test that can be done to give a definitive answer. This is in contrast to many medical diagnoses which do have tests that establish a diagnosis. Cancer is diagnosed by the finding of abnormal cells on a biopsy. Down Syndrome is diagnosed by the finding of an extra copy of chromosome 21 in the cells. Intracranial hemorrhage can be diagnosed by seeing a bleed on CT or MRI.

With a concussion, certain findings on physical exam can support the diagnosis (such as slurred speech, slowed reaction time, impaired mental status) but the main things used in the establishment of a diagnosis are history (usually a blow to the head, but sometimes a whiplash type injury without any direct head trauma) along with some sort of impairment of brain function. A concussion is a mild traumatic brain injury, by definition. Loss of consciousness (LOC) certainly fits the criteria, and the combination of head trauma with associated LOC ALWAYS indicates concussion, but most concussions occur without LOC. Other symptoms can include (but are not limited to) headache, nausea and/or vomiting, blurred vision, memory loss, cognitive impairment and others.

The longer the symptoms persist, the more severe the concussion. Having a concussion makes you more susceptible to traumatic brain injury in the future, which is why someone who has had more than one concussion is generally told to not resume contact sports for a much longer period of time than someone who has had their first concussion. The likelihood of permanent injury increases with multiple concussions, and this is illustrated by what we are seeing now with retired boxers and football players, many years after their injuries.
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Re: Neal skates...

Postby Gaucho on Sat Apr 06, 2013 10:46 am

marek wrote:Shanahan cannot and will never discipline a member of his own team... He still believes that he's a red wing, devil, and new york ranger... And he prob still thinks there's a team still playing in Hartford.


So what's his excuse for handing out numerous suspensions and fines to members of the teams you mentioned?
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Re: Neal skates...

Postby pens#1 on Sat Apr 06, 2013 12:09 pm

Is there any update on Neal or Letang for that matter?
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