Game 40 vs. Canes - Thoughts from the Morning After

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Re: Game 40 vs. Canes - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby headh on Wed Apr 10, 2013 9:27 am

Nizzy wrote:@Bev

Mother of God.

That line-up is so stacked. Bylsma is an idiot for playing Kennedy over Bennett. Rookies can still play well in the playoffs Dannie.


the line combination game is awesome with this group of forwards. it's easy to come up with a stacked alternative. Am I the only one who thinks that Jussi looks better than Sutter?
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Re: Game 40 vs. Canes - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby Gaucho on Wed Apr 10, 2013 9:27 am

headh wrote: Am I the only one who thinks that Jussi looks better than Sutter?


At doing what?
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Re: Game 40 vs. Canes - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby shafnutz05 on Wed Apr 10, 2013 9:28 am

Gaucho wrote:
headh wrote: Am I the only one who thinks that Jussi looks better than Sutter?


At doing what?


winning faceoffs, for one (note, I don't agree with the hypothesis, way too early)
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Re: Game 40 vs. Canes - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby shmenguin on Wed Apr 10, 2013 9:35 am

jokinen is a better skater than sutter, has better vision, is better at faceoffs, and is just better offensively.

but is he overall a better player? sutter's probably got him beat defensively...maybe on the PK too, but that's tough to judge. sutter might be a better competitor, too. we'll see how it shakes out. suffice to say, i'm not in love with the sutter experience. but when we're healthy, he'll be more valuable.
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Re: Game 40 vs. Canes - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby headh on Wed Apr 10, 2013 9:35 am

Gaucho wrote:
headh wrote: Am I the only one who thinks that Jussi looks better than Sutter?


At doing what?


playing hockey. i am having trouble coming up with anything that Sutter does better than Jussi. He may be a more responsible defender or more physical.

Skill wise Jussi seems to be better at everything...Skating, passing, getting open, vision

I don't know if there is a discernible difference in their shot.

Jussi is obviously better at face offs.

I think Sutter is more physical and Jussi is more skilled.
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Re: Game 40 vs. Canes - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby Gaucho on Wed Apr 10, 2013 9:37 am

So if you were an NHL GM and you were offered Jussi Jokinen for Brandon Sutter you'd do it?
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Re: Game 40 vs. Canes - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby meecrofilm on Wed Apr 10, 2013 9:39 am

headh wrote:
Idoit40fans wrote:I'd say Bortuzzo's net contribution to that game was at best 0. Where is Despres?

Bennett should be playing come playoff time. You don't lose anything by having him on that 4th over whoever you would be putting there and he is actually a threat to make something happen.

That was the best i've seen Murray move as a Penguin.



Bennett's skill level is of the "can't miss" variety. I just question his strength and size right now. He has been knocked off of the puck fairly easily in some instances. I'd play him from here on out on one of the first three lines and make my determination based on how he looks during these last regular season games. I certainly wouldn't scratch him anymore.

If he looks good enough I'd put him with Sid and Neal when they return.


Disagree, he's done pretty well with puck battles so far, and he's capable of laying some decent hits as well. Agree that there's no logical reason he should be sitting.
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Re: Game 40 vs. Canes - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby headh on Wed Apr 10, 2013 9:42 am

Gaucho wrote:So if you were an NHL GM and you were offered Jussi Jokinen for Brandon Sutter you'd do it?


That's an interesting question. It's a different point than what I was trying to express but I'll play. It depends on my team make up. If I felt it was time to win a cup right now and I was missing a skilled C in order to best position my team to win right now I'd take Jussi.

If I was betting on 3 to 5 seasons from now I'd take Sutter over JJ. Primarily because of who Sutter might become. He has size, pedigree and age on his side. He may be more physical but honestly his physicality or compete level don't jump out at me when I'm watching him play.

Today JJ is more skilled offensively and gives us a better chance to win big face offs, control the puck and score more goals.
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Re: Game 40 vs. Canes - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby headh on Wed Apr 10, 2013 9:46 am

meecrofilm wrote:
headh wrote:
Idoit40fans wrote:I'd say Bortuzzo's net contribution to that game was at best 0. Where is Despres?

Bennett should be playing come playoff time. You don't lose anything by having him on that 4th over whoever you would be putting there and he is actually a threat to make something happen.

That was the best i've seen Murray move as a Penguin.



Bennett's skill level is of the "can't miss" variety. I just question his strength and size right now. He has been knocked off of the puck fairly easily in some instances. I'd play him from here on out on one of the first three lines and make my determination based on how he looks during these last regular season games. I certainly wouldn't scratch him anymore.

If he looks good enough I'd put him with Sid and Neal when they return.


Disagree, he's done pretty well with puck battles so far, and he's capable of laying some decent hits as well. Agree that there's no logical reason he should be sitting.


I would play him the remainder of these regular season games. The main area I'd be watching with his game would be his willingness and ability to compete. His skill level to me is his strength and therefore I'd make my assessment based upon my gut feel on his readiness for "playoff hockey"
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Re: Game 40 vs. Canes - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby IntangibleBeer on Wed Apr 10, 2013 9:47 am

penny lane wrote:Okay, I'll write it, 20 years later, time for a penguins v islanders series.


I'm good with it as long as the outcome is different. The 1993 loss depressed me for weeks.
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Re: Game 40 vs. Canes - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby Shakes on Wed Apr 10, 2013 9:47 am

headh wrote:
Gaucho wrote:So if you were an NHL GM and you were offered Jussi Jokinen for Brandon Sutter you'd do it?


That's an interesting question. It's a different point than what I was trying to express but I'll play. It depends on my team make up. If I felt it was time to win a cup right now and I was missing a skilled C in order to best position my team to win right now I'd take Jussi.

If I was betting on 3 to 5 seasons from now I'd take Sutter over JJ. Primarily because of who Sutter might become. He has size, pedigree and age on his side. He may be more physical but honestly his physicality or compete level don't jump out at me when I'm watching him play.

Today JJ is more skilled offensively and gives us a better chance to win big face offs, control the puck and score more goals.


No.
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Re: Game 40 vs. Canes - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby Gaucho on Wed Apr 10, 2013 9:55 am

I'd take Sutter any day of the week over Jokinen not because of what he might become, but because of what he already is, especially if I feel the time to win a Cup is now. Sutter is an outstanding shutdown center and saying that he "may be a more responsible defender" has to be the understatement of the year.

But of course, if you think rolling four scoring lines is going to get you a Cup, then, by all means, give it a try.

Please note that I do not dislike Jokinen, I'm quite happy with him so far, but it's been two games and people tend to be awfully quick to deify new arrivals while at the same time cutting accomplished veterans no slack whatsoever when they happen to have a subpar fortnight.
Last edited by Gaucho on Wed Apr 10, 2013 9:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Game 40 vs. Canes - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby sil on Wed Apr 10, 2013 9:57 am

How 'bout this...I'd take Sutter and Jokinen over Sutter and TK.
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Re: Game 40 vs. Canes - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby RisslingsMissingTeeth on Wed Apr 10, 2013 9:57 am

I had never seen BB play or seen anything about him until I watched him with my own eyes this season. I have become a huge fanboy no doubt as what I am seeing is someone who is so gifted with the puck, but more importantly, so incredibly calm with his hands. When he is out there, you truly believe he could score at any moment. Kind of like you feel with Geno or Sid. For me, he passes the eye test better than Neal. Fight me if you will on that but I think Neal depends on those around him creating opportunity and BB seems capable of both creating and capitalizing. He simply must be included in the game plan. his ceiling is ridiculous.
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Re: Game 40 vs. Canes - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby Gaucho on Wed Apr 10, 2013 10:03 am

RisslingsMissingTeeth wrote:For me, he passes the eye test better than Neal. Fight me if you will on that but I think Neal depends on those around him creating opportunity and BB seems capable of both creating and capitalizing.


BB has always been known as a playmaker while Neal has not, so this was to be expected. Pretty pointless comparison.
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Re: Game 40 vs. Canes - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby RisslingsMissingTeeth on Wed Apr 10, 2013 10:05 am

Gaucho wrote:
RisslingsMissingTeeth wrote:For me, he passes the eye test better than Neal. Fight me if you will on that but I think Neal depends on those around him creating opportunity and BB seems capable of both creating and capitalizing.


BB has always been known as a playmaker while Neal has not, so this was to be expected. Pretty pointless comparison.


Actually not pointless if you are stating a case for why he should be on a top 2 line and not a 4th line.
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Re: Game 40 vs. Canes - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby Gaucho on Wed Apr 10, 2013 10:11 am

RisslingsMissingTeeth wrote:
Gaucho wrote:
RisslingsMissingTeeth wrote:For me, he passes the eye test better than Neal. Fight me if you will on that but I think Neal depends on those around him creating opportunity and BB seems capable of both creating and capitalizing.


BB has always been known as a playmaker while Neal has not, so this was to be expected. Pretty pointless comparison.


Actually not pointless if you are stating a case for why he should be on a top 2 line and not a 4th line.


Fine, but I don't see what Neal has to do with this. People have been complaining lately that Neal isn't as effective without a top playmaking center, but we acquired him specifically because we have two elite playmaking centers. You might as well criticize Murray for not being a good PP QB.
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Re: Game 40 vs. Canes - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby headh on Wed Apr 10, 2013 10:11 am

Gaucho wrote:I'd take Sutter any day of the week over Jokinen not because of what he might become, but because of what he already is, especially if I feel the time to win a Cup is now. Sutter is an outstanding shutdown center and saying that he "may be a more responsible defender" has to be the understatement of the year.

But of course, if you think rolling four scoring lines is going to get you a Cup, then, by all means, give it a try.

Please note that I do not dislike Jokinen, I'm quite happy with him so far, but it's been two games and people tend to be awfully quick to deify new arrivals while at the same time cutting accomplished veterans no slack whatsoever when they happen to have a subpar fortnight.


I think you are changing what I am trying to say. My point is that my bottom 6 would look like this

10-36-19
24-16-48

that doesn't give us four scoring lines but it does give us four lines capable of scoring.
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Re: Game 40 vs. Canes - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby Nizzy on Wed Apr 10, 2013 10:13 am

I do not approve of headh.
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Re: Game 40 vs. Canes - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby Inkio on Wed Apr 10, 2013 10:17 am

-Malkin may not have been flashy but he put up 6 shots and a goal. Good to see him shooting the puck.
-I've been saying Morrow contributes in many ways, now contributing in points is great. He looked amazing this game.
-Bortuzzo made a few big mistakes, and iced the puck a lot. Contributing a goal is great, but there were many situations where he pinched and it cause 2 on 1's.
-I would love to see the Morrow-Jokinen-Dupuis line from this time forward, even on Sid and Neal's return. They had great chemistry, especially Juicy and Morrow. Seeing Morrow forecheck in as Juicy went for the puck to create that goal was beautiful. They had a few other plays like that as well which didn't cash in.
-Murray continues to impress.
-Orpik had a lot of good defensive plays but also a lot of bad. He seems a little out there lately.
-Faceoffs continue to be a problem in the defensive zone. Even with Sid back, I'm not sure DB will put Juicy out for the right circle defensive faceoffs.
-Bennett should be playing in every game from this time forward. He continues to produce, and has a great future ahead of him. Either sit Glass or TK. I know that DB wont do it... but it's just stupid not to. Lines when fully healthy should be one of the following:

Kunitz-Crosby-Iginla
Bennett-Malkin-Neal
Morrow-Jokenin-Dupuis
Cooke-Sutter-Adams

Kunitz-Crosby-Iginla
Morrow-Malkin-Neal
Jokinen-Sutter-Dupuis
Cooke-Adams-Bennett

Kunitz-Crosby-Iginla
Bennett-Malkin-Neal
Morrow-Sutter-Dupuis
Cooke-Jokenin-Adams

Kunitz-Crosby-Iginla
Morrow-Malkin-Neal
Bennett-Sutter-Dupuis
Cooke-Jokinen-Adams

I think any one of those is decent. Preferred is the first one or 2nd.

**edited to fix some stuff.
Last edited by Inkio on Wed Apr 10, 2013 10:43 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Game 40 vs. Canes - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby Gaucho on Wed Apr 10, 2013 10:21 am

Sutter on the 4th line is fine as long as opposing head coaches decide to only employ their top lines for about six or seven shifts a game.
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Re: Game 40 vs. Canes - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby sil on Wed Apr 10, 2013 10:25 am

Jokinen doesn't have to play center...and that also doesn't mean that he couldn't take draws. To me, the best case scenario would be to see him play on a line WITH Sutter. One's a righty, the other a lefty, and both can win draws in the right situation...plus it gives them some added motivation to cheat in the dot.
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Re: Game 40 vs. Canes - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby Inkio on Wed Apr 10, 2013 10:26 am

sil wrote:Jokinen doesn't have to play center...and that also doesn't mean that he couldn't take draws. To me, the best case scenario would be to see him play on a line WITH Sutter. One's a righty, the other a lefty, and both can win draws in the right situation...plus it gives them some added motivation to cheat in the dot.


Good thought there actually. Maybe put Morrow on the 2nd then and Bennett on the 4th for some skill on the 4th line.
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Re: Game 40 vs. Canes - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby headh on Wed Apr 10, 2013 10:28 am

Nizzy wrote:I do not approve of headh.



:shock: :?
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Re: Game 40 vs. Canes - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby Dickie Dunn on Wed Apr 10, 2013 10:30 am

Errey made mention of it multiple times last night, but Murray's gap control is amazing. Dude always seems to be in the right position to make a play and doesn't force anything, including big hits. Really plays within his skillset.
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