You're the GM 2013-14, 2014-15

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Re: You're the GM 2013-14, 2014-15

Postby thehockeyguru on Thu Jun 06, 2013 1:44 am

farnham16 wrote:
thehockeyguru wrote:What should the pens ask for in return when dealing Letang?


I'd call Edmonton about some of their young forwards.


I'd want Smid in any Edmonton package.
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Re: You're the GM 2013-14, 2014-15

Postby DontToewsMeBro on Thu Jun 06, 2013 1:45 am

In hindsight, I wouldn't have even traded Matt Cooke straight up for Jarome Iginla. He has been woeful in every aspect of the game. It's sad.
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Re: You're the GM 2013-14, 2014-15

Postby thehockeyguru on Thu Jun 06, 2013 1:51 am

DontToewsMeBro wrote:In hindsight, I wouldn't have even traded Matt Cooke straight up for Jarome Iginla. He has been woeful in every aspect of the game. It's sad.


I have no problem with what we gave up for Iginla. I didnt like giving Morrow up for Morrow. That trade IMO was a complete waste.
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Re: You're the GM 2013-14, 2014-15

Postby MRandall25 on Thu Jun 06, 2013 1:54 am

thehockeyguru wrote:
DontToewsMeBro wrote:In hindsight, I wouldn't have even traded Matt Cooke straight up for Jarome Iginla. He has been woeful in every aspect of the game. It's sad.


I have no problem with what we gave up for Iginla. I didnt like giving Morrow up for Morrow. That trade IMO was a complete waste.


If what we heard is true, I don't think that trade is as bad as it looks. Joe Morrow is still very much a prospect and could still not pan out/be successful.
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Re: You're the GM 2013-14, 2014-15

Postby wondermoose on Thu Jun 06, 2013 2:01 am

If I'm the GM:

Fire Bylsma, hire Tippett.

Trade Fleury, Letang, and Niskanen.

Let Cooke, Kennedy, Iginla, Morrow, and Dupuis go.

Bring up the kids and see if they're as gutless as the current roster is.
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Re: You're the GM 2013-14, 2014-15

Postby orpchar on Thu Jun 06, 2013 2:56 am

1) Fire HCDB. This team has collapsed too many times under his watch.
2) Aggressively target Lindy Ruff. No need to get creative here; this team has an establishment of star talent which needs to be kept in check, and the best way to do that is a big name coach.
3) Trade Fleury. Can't go back to him now. Vokoun and a veteran backup should cost 3.5-4M. Target UFA's such as Chris Mason, Jose Theodore, Jason Labarbera. Cap savings of 3+M with a profit of whatever you get from a team that loves regular season goaltending. Give Zatkoff a chance to earn a backup role following his entry level contract expiration next year.
4) Offer Letang a 2 year extension at 5M/yr. If he declines, trade him for a boatload. GMRS HAS managed to build prospect depth at this position which will provide leverage, and I would much rather pay Martin 5M than Letang 6+.
5) Offer Malkin a 3-5 year extension at 8.7M/yr.
5) At the new coach's discretion, offer Iginla and Morrow a 1 yr 3-3.5M contract to fight over, under the terms that they will actually be put in a position to succeed.
6) Offer Dupuis a 2 yr extension at 2.5M/yr. Alternatives include Mason Raymond, Stephen Weiss.
7) Offer Cooke a 1-2 yr extension at 2-2.5M/yr. Alternatives include Guillame Latendresse, Danny Cleary, Clarke MacArthur.
8) Make Tyler Kennedy a 1 yr qualifying offer of 2M. If he signs it, stick him in the top 6 and see what happens. If another team matches or exceeds, you get a 2nd round pick compensation. Win-win.
9) Offer Mark Eaton 1.5M and Murray 2M. Would prefer Eaton.
10) Re-sign Adams at less than 1M.
11) Re-sign Jeffery at 1M, give him a shot to make the full time roster.

Lines would look something like the follwing:

Kunitz - Sid - Iginla(?)
Neal - Malkin - TK
Cooke - Sutter - Dupuis
Adams - Jeffery - Bennett
(Vitale and Glass as necessary)

Martin - Letang
Murray/Eaton - Orpik
Despres - Niskanen
(Engalland - Pouliot / Maatta / Dumoulin / Harrington as necessary)

I don't mind the forward group, but there isn't much organizational depth. By my calculations, the re-signing of Iginla, TK, Cooke, Dupuis, Adams, Jeffery, Eaton (or equivalents), less the savings from MAF, would cost approximately 10M, with nearly 8M of cap space currently on the books. If the cap does not expand, trade Niskanen and bring up another youngster, and possibly reduce the money allocated to Dupuis if he isn't going to be a top 6 forward. Also, the possibility exists to let both Iginla and Morrow go, returning Dupuis to Sid's wing and replacing a bottom 6 forward with a regular appearance by Vitale / Glass. If TK leaves, I'd like to see Bennett get a top 6 shot. He strikes me as someone who could stick in the top 6, but may not necessarily stick at the NHL level if expected to play a bottom 6 role.

The bottom line is to institute a more team-oriented game which won't crumble when a team manages to shut down individual players. If Malkin doesn't see a long term future with the team, I'm fine trading him for a king's ransom. I'd rather have a 6-7M player who shows up every game than a 10M player who shows up when he pleases. Playoff hockey is won by teams who control the front of the net, and I think this team is capable of doing that, if they focus on playing defense first.
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Re: You're the GM 2013-14, 2014-15

Postby Nizzy on Thu Jun 06, 2013 8:20 am

farnham16 wrote:
DontToewsMeBro wrote:-Byslma is canned either way you look at it.
-Try to trade Fleury for picks/prospects.
-Trade the rights to some of your UFAs to get back some picks you gave up acquiring them.
-Trade Letang for a treasure chest.
-Hold onto: Crosby, Malkin, Sutter, Neal, Bennett, Martin, and Despres.
-Bury Engelland in Siberia.


Ha agree with everything.

A little bit of a youth movement is needed next year I think. Make Despres and Bennett big time contributors, and bring up Dumoulin and give Harrington and Pouliot a look.


Agree...but this CAN ONLY BE DONE if Bylsma is fired. He cannot be here any longer to screw up Despres, Dumoulin, etc etc. I'm so tired of him dropping Despres like nothing messing with his confidence but letting Letang go -5 like nothing happened.

MRandall25 wrote:I think you could keep Dupuis around next year at a price cheaper than what he could get in FA. No more than 2 or 3 years, though.


I think he stays too.
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Re: You're the GM 2013-14, 2014-15

Postby Malkamaniac on Thu Jun 06, 2013 8:24 am

-Trade MAF for picks
-Trade Letang for current NHL players or top prospects ready to hit the ice
-Fire Bylsma, hire a guy who can put a competent strategy together and has some defensive focus.
-Let Iginla/Murray walk
-resign Morrow
-resign Dupuis
-find a way to add size to the forward group/someone that can plant their butt in front of the net.
-find another guy like Vokoun and role with an a/b goalie situation again.
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Re: You're the GM 2013-14, 2014-15

Postby Take the Body Shoot the Puck on Thu Jun 06, 2013 8:48 am

orpchar wrote:1) Fire HCDB. This team has collapsed too many times under his watch.
2) Aggressively target Lindy Ruff. No need to get creative here; this team has an establishment of star talent which needs to be kept in check, and the best way to do that is a big name coach.
3) Trade Fleury. Can't go back to him now. Vokoun and a veteran backup should cost 3.5-4M. Target UFA's such as Chris Mason, Jose Theodore, Jason Labarbera. Cap savings of 3+M with a profit of whatever you get from a team that loves regular season goaltending. Give Zatkoff a chance to earn a backup role following his entry level contract expiration next year.
4) Offer Letang a 2 year extension at 5M/yr. If he declines, trade him for a boatload. GMRS HAS managed to build prospect depth at this position which will provide leverage, and I would much rather pay Martin 5M than Letang 6+.
5) Offer Malkin a 3-5 year extension at 8.7M/yr.
5) At the new coach's discretion, offer Iginla and Morrow a 1 yr 3-3.5M contract to fight over, under the terms that they will actually be put in a position to succeed.
6) Offer Dupuis a 2 yr extension at 2.5M/yr. Alternatives include Mason Raymond, Stephen Weiss.
7) Offer Cooke a 1-2 yr extension at 2-2.5M/yr. Alternatives include Guillame Latendresse, Danny Cleary, Clarke MacArthur.
8) Make Tyler Kennedy a 1 yr qualifying offer of 2M. If he signs it, stick him in the top 6 and see what happens. If another team matches or exceeds, you get a 2nd round pick compensation. Win-win.
9) Offer Mark Eaton 1.5M and Murray 2M. Would prefer Eaton.
10) Re-sign Adams at less than 1M.
11) Re-sign Jeffery at 1M, give him a shot to make the full time roster.

Lines would look something like the follwing:

Kunitz - Sid - Iginla(?)
Neal - Malkin - TK
Cooke - Sutter - Dupuis
Adams - Jeffery - Bennett
(Vitale and Glass as necessary)

Martin - Letang
Murray/Eaton - Orpik
Despres - Niskanen
(Engalland - Pouliot / Maatta / Dumoulin / Harrington as necessary)

I don't mind the forward group, but there isn't much organizational depth. By my calculations, the re-signing of Iginla, TK, Cooke, Dupuis, Adams, Jeffery, Eaton (or equivalents), less the savings from MAF, would cost approximately 10M, with nearly 8M of cap space currently on the books. If the cap does not expand, trade Niskanen and bring up another youngster, and possibly reduce the money allocated to Dupuis if he isn't going to be a top 6 forward. Also, the possibility exists to let both Iginla and Morrow go, returning Dupuis to Sid's wing and replacing a bottom 6 forward with a regular appearance by Vitale / Glass. If TK leaves, I'd like to see Bennett get a top 6 shot. He strikes me as someone who could stick in the top 6, but may not necessarily stick at the NHL level if expected to play a bottom 6 role.

The bottom line is to institute a more team-oriented game which won't crumble when a team manages to shut down individual players. If Malkin doesn't see a long term future with the team, I'm fine trading him for a king's ransom. I'd rather have a 6-7M player who shows up every game than a 10M player who shows up when he pleases. Playoff hockey is won by teams who control the front of the net, and I think this team is capable of doing that, if they focus on playing defense first.


No way I offer Eaton that money, retain Kennedy for $2 million, or bury Bennett on the 4th line in favor of giving TK a shot at the top 6. Bennett has shown he belongs here, preferably in the top 6 but he's shown me enough of his physical side to make me think he could fit on the 3rd line if need be for a bit before bumping up to scoring line duty full time (so I kind of agree and disagree with you on Bennett).
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Re: You're the GM 2013-14, 2014-15

Postby DelPen on Thu Jun 06, 2013 9:00 am

Kunitz-Crosby-Dupuis
Bennett-Malkin-Neal
Cooke-Sutter-Jokinen
Glass-Vitale-Kennedy

Orpik-Martin
Despres-???
Murray-Eaton
Engellend/Bortuzzo

Vokoun/???

Figure out a way to dump Niskanen, Letang and Fleury. Don't see Morrow or Iginla being resigned. Keep Murray, guy's a good player.
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Re: You're the GM 2013-14, 2014-15

Postby Stevens25 on Thu Jun 06, 2013 9:07 am

Let me just blow up the forum real quick

I'd like to see tortorella in as our coach. Discipline and accountability are a glaring weakness. What torts lacks in compassion, friendliness, ability to get the puck in the net, he makes up for with that. I vomited while writing this by the way. God is torts an ass
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Re: You're the GM 2013-14, 2014-15

Postby Crankshaft on Thu Jun 06, 2013 9:30 am

Is it time to move on from Kunitz? His cap hit might not fit in next year. Plus, Bennett plays great with Crosby.
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Re: You're the GM 2013-14, 2014-15

Postby since1970 on Thu Jun 06, 2013 9:36 am

..wanted Despres and Bortuzzo to play this entire year...no reason for Engo or Nisky to be play ahaead of them, and why would you have to go get Eaton if those two have 48 games under their belt, yea, they would make mistakes, but would their mistakes be any worse than what we say from others during the season? I would think after playing the season they'd be ready for the playoffs, but Bylsma screwed the pooch on these two as well.
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Re: You're the GM 2013-14, 2014-15

Postby thehockeyguru on Thu Jun 06, 2013 9:44 am

since1970 wrote:..wanted Despres and Bortuzzo to play this entire year...no reason for Engo or Nisky to be play ahaead of them, and why would you have to go get Eaton if those two have 48 games under their belt, yea, they would make mistakes, but would their mistakes be any worse than what we say from others during the season? I would think after playing the season they'd be ready for the playoffs, but Bylsma screwed the pooch on these two as well.


I think its funny that we couldn't find room for Lovejoy, but in 7 playoff games with the Ducks he averaged over 20 Min and was a +4. We cast off Michalek because he didn't "work in the Bylsma system". #1 prioirty should be getting a new coach and implementing a system.

IMO Bylsma is a joke and no one on the blueline can be properly evaluated until we get some structure.
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Re: You're the GM 2013-14, 2014-15

Postby meow on Thu Jun 06, 2013 9:48 am

wondermoose wrote:If I'm the GM:

Fire Bylsma, hire Tippett.

Trade Fleury, Letang, and Niskanen.

Let Cooke, Kennedy, Iginla, Morrow, and Dupuis go.

Bring up the kids and see if they're as gutless as the current roster is.

I hope you like golfing in late April.
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Re: You're the GM 2013-14, 2014-15

Postby since1970 on Thu Jun 06, 2013 9:54 am

....how is the Letang issue going to work itself out, this is his SEVENTH season. I don't want to hear defenseman usually figure it out @ 28/29 yrs old, if you can't figure it out in seven seasons will you ever? His game still has way too many holes in it at age 26. I like Letang, but can't help think he might be better suited to be somewhere else on the ice other than defense. He's not the PP QB we thought he'd be, his occasional great defensive play doesn't nearly make up for his continuing mind numbing mistakes. We have to remember these guys aren't 22 year olds any more. Might it be time for a mini roster explosion?
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Re: You're the GM 2013-14, 2014-15

Postby owtahear on Thu Jun 06, 2013 9:55 am

Trade Malkin for Marchand and One Leg Campbell. DO IT RAY!
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Re: You're the GM 2013-14, 2014-15

Postby BurghersAndDogsSports on Thu Jun 06, 2013 9:56 am

thehockeyguru wrote:
since1970 wrote:..wanted Despres and Bortuzzo to play this entire year...no reason for Engo or Nisky to be play ahaead of them, and why would you have to go get Eaton if those two have 48 games under their belt, yea, they would make mistakes, but would their mistakes be any worse than what we say from others during the season? I would think after playing the season they'd be ready for the playoffs, but Bylsma screwed the pooch on these two as well.


I think its funny that we couldn't find room for Lovejoy, but in 7 playoff games with the Ducks he averaged over 20 Min and was a +4. We cast off Michalek because he didn't "work in the Bylsma system". #1 prioirty should be getting a new coach and implementing a system.

IMO Bylsma is a joke and no one on the blueline can be properly evaluated until we get some structure.


Shouldn't the GM hold be held accountable for depleting a roster of what it takes to win a cup for a roster full of slow vets and a terrible defense as well as depleting his farm system of all except one skill set?

He clearly believed a system or one similar to HCDB's was what it takes to win.
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Re: You're the GM 2013-14, 2014-15

Postby since1970 on Thu Jun 06, 2013 10:02 am

if Shero believed he was getting players to play his coaches system, then he did his job. His coach didn't, unless you believe Shero didn't bring players for DB's system, and put DB at a disadvantage.
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Re: You're the GM 2013-14, 2014-15

Postby maopens on Thu Jun 06, 2013 10:09 am

Team has some issues that just have to be addressed. It's the same story 4 years now.

1) Fleury. Too much money tied up in a franchise goalie too unreliable to play in the biggest games. $5 mil cap hit for a guy who has been a playoff flop after the 2009 Cup.

2) Offensive system. God I would love to see us just copy the Red Wings system. I'm no fan but they understand puck possession, watching them I can't help but wonder what the Pens would be able to do in that system instead of non-stop stretch passing the length of the ice all night.

3) Defensive system. We should get one. Even a used on from Ebay would be nice.

4) Letang. Maybe move him to Forward since he plays as if he wants to be there. Great skills but the constant bad judgments just has to stop. He's not 22 years old anymore. How do we pay him $7 mil if he can't mature into a DEFENSEMAN first?

5) Orpik. No longer the feared hitter he once was. Prone to the bad judgment himself from time to time and never has been the best positional player. Without the hits, his cap number looks pretty high.

6) Center position is set for next year with Sutter and Jokinen and Vitale.

7) Despres better be able to step in and pay next year. He has to be a regular.

8) Iginla & Morrow. Both are slow,much slower than I expected them to be. Morrow brings grit and heart, hits and plays hard. I'd rather re-sign him if possible. He may be the only guy on the roster capable of playing in front of the net (when permitted to do so) which makes me ask, why have the Pens been allergic to playing a traffic guy in front of the net like almost everyone else does? God that Power Play looks terrible when just passing around outside with no traffic ... and it doesn't work.

9) Bennett. See Despres comments. he must be a top 6 next year. Period.

10) Wingers, the annual debate. Lots of free agents there. Dupuis seems ageless, I hope he returns. Cooke, I like his new-found game but he is a marked man with the refs. I'm convinced he gets more than others based on his old rep. But when on, he plays really hard. Kennedy, $2 mil to sit the bench? We don't have much youth behind Bennett but some of our wingers were painfully slow against Boston. Love Iginla but he is not cut out to play a fast-paced system (not that I am convinced it is the best one for the Pens to play).

11) Bylsma. How many more years can underachievement with "the best 2 players in the world" be tolerated? Would love Dan to be my neighbor but I have been soured on him as the coach for a while. Bad personnel decisions, playing people out of their positions, consistent issues with team focus and team defense, power play that at times looks like me and 4 guys off this board are out there, how much longer can this continue? His adjustments don't seem to be there when they face a team that has them figured out. Is he just stubborn or incapable of digesting the opponent and making the appropriate strategy calls? I'm hoping for a change, more structure and focus. Too much talent but these guys won't be in their prime forever.

This game hurt. If any one of those 4-5 posts ... my post would be much shorter and happier.
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Re: You're the GM 2013-14, 2014-15

Postby Stevens25 on Thu Jun 06, 2013 10:14 am

8) Iginla & Morrow. Both are slow,much slower than I expected them to be. Morrow brings grit and heart, hits and plays hard. I'd rather re-sign him if possible. He may be the only guy on the roster capable of playing in front of the net (when permitted to do so) which makes me ask, why have the Pens been allergic to playing a traffic guy in front of the net like almost everyone else does? God that Power Play looks terrible when just passing around outside with no traffic ... and it doesn't work.


Remember Malone sitting in front of the net, than getting a fat paycheck off of crosbys work. That's the problem with people who do that job. They get inflated stats and leave for greener pastures
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Re: You're the GM 2013-14, 2014-15

Postby thehockeyguru on Thu Jun 06, 2013 10:18 am

maopens wrote:Team has some issues that just have to be addressed. It's the same story 4 years now.

10) Wingers, the annual debate. Lots of free agents there. Dupuis seems ageless, I hope he returns. Cooke, I like his new-found game but he is a marked man with the refs. I'm convinced he gets more than others based on his old rep. But when on, he plays really hard. Kennedy, $2 mil to sit the bench? We don't have much youth behind Bennett but some of our wingers were painfully slow against Boston. Love Iginla but he is not cut out to play a fast-paced system (not that I am convinced it is the best one for the Pens to play).



I still have NO IDEA why Kennedy isnt playing. The guy provided exactly what the Pens needed against the Isles, speed and tenacity. He wins pucks in the corners and puts the puck on net. Exactly what you need from a 3rd/4th line guy. I'd find a way to trade/cut Glass and use his 1M towards something more productive.
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Re: You're the GM 2013-14, 2014-15

Postby Dickie Dunn on Thu Jun 06, 2013 10:19 am

thehockeyguru wrote:
since1970 wrote:..wanted Despres and Bortuzzo to play this entire year...no reason for Engo or Nisky to be play ahaead of them, and why would you have to go get Eaton if those two have 48 games under their belt, yea, they would make mistakes, but would their mistakes be any worse than what we say from others during the season? I would think after playing the season they'd be ready for the playoffs, but Bylsma screwed the pooch on these two as well.


I think its funny that we couldn't find room for Lovejoy, but in 7 playoff games with the Ducks he averaged over 20 Min and was a +4. We cast off Michalek because he didn't "work in the Bylsma system". #1 prioirty should be getting a new coach and implementing a system.

IMO Bylsma is a joke and no one on the blueline can be properly evaluated until we get some structure.


I put the Lovejoy trade on Bylsma as well. It was obvious that one out of the Engelland/Lovejoy duo was going to be traded, it was just a matter of who Bylsma preferred more. Somehow he preferred the slow tough guy with horrible puck skills over a good skating defenseman with superior puck skills. Lovejoy had his issues, but so does every other defenseman on this roster. This defense would look a hell of a lot better and have a lot more competent depth if Lovejoy wasn't traded.

I've long been a Bylsma supporter and believe that most of the complaints about him (and coaches in general) are player issues, but his personnel decisions are maddening. He doesn't put his players in the best position for them to succeed, he doesn't play superior players because they are young, and his handling of the defense is just mind boggling.
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Re: You're the GM 2013-14, 2014-15

Postby ExPatriatePen on Thu Jun 06, 2013 10:24 am

What's a GM salary? I was looking at new Teslas the other day and I need to know if I qualify for financing
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Re: You're the GM 2013-14, 2014-15

Postby Crankshaft on Thu Jun 06, 2013 10:27 am

ExPatriatePen wrote:What's a GM salary? I was looking at new Teslas the other day and I need to know if I qualify for financing


...what?
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