Pseudo sellout Streak...Anyone need 45 together?

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Re: Pseudo sellout Streak...Anyone need 45 together?

Postby C4 Row E on Thu May 02, 2013 9:02 pm

Ossa wrote:
BurghersAndDogsSports wrote:
Ossa wrote:
mac5155 wrote:How are 200 student rush tickets, most of which are probably singles, hurting resale value? If all you want to do is sell your tickets, don't buy them.

Exactly. They aren't. College students don't have the money to pay the ticket resale price. If anything it may be helping resale value.


Confusing student rush with open seats. Rush just keeps a steak going has no bearing on resale value. Open seats is what actually kills value.

In theory focring sellouts should help value, but it doesnt at all. I think you are wrong on what you just stated because there are open tickets until the day of the game and students typically cant buy them until that day (or if there are ton left like a lot of times they day before in a presale I have seen). So that hurts the value, quite a bit actually. But that is my point exactly anyways from above. There are plenty of people willing to pay say $150 but not $250, they dont sell so they are then sold for $30.

And it seems lately that season holders like me are being punished with crazy pricing to make up the difference and they are hoping for a long playoff run.

Just so you know I am not reselling my tickets, thats not why I care. I care because my prices keep going through the roof while they dont seem to be selling out most of the time. Its stupid to punish your most loyal paying customers.

To the original thought by Mac - this is where we differ and why people dont see the point. You assume that there are 200 single tickets left. But that simply isnt true, there are hundreds and sometimes thousands of perfectly good tickets in bulk left. That is why folks get frustrated. If were a few hundred singles nobody would even notice.


There not selling out most of the time? I disagree. They are selling most of their tickets, its a very small handful of tickets in the 100 level not selling and a few singles scattered throughout the arena. As for season ticket costs being too high, there hasn't been one time this entire season where I haven't lost money selling my tickets. Not once. There is no need to reduce the price if there are many people willing to pay more.


You lost money everytime? wow
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Re: Pseudo sellout Streak...Anyone need 45 together?

Postby columbia on Thu May 02, 2013 9:05 pm

Payback for wooing. ;)
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Re: Pseudo sellout Streak...Anyone need 45 together?

Postby FreeCandy44 on Thu May 02, 2013 9:10 pm

columbia wrote:Payback for wooing. ;)

Zing!
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Re: Pseudo sellout Streak...Anyone need 45 together?

Postby MRandall25 on Thu May 02, 2013 9:15 pm

C4 Row E wrote:The following is the ideal situation and it's a win win for everyone............

1. Do student rush about 4 times per year on random Tuesday games that you'll never sell out
2. Offer mini-plans to waiting listers at STH price....they'll be gobbled up to sell out status right away
3. During the playoffs....absolutely no student rush. Have a lottery for those on the waiting list to buy at STH price.

THIS maximizes profits


They already do this (my dad had a 5 game plan last year), but the tickets are something like $30 bucks more per game than the half season plan we have now.
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Re: Pseudo sellout Streak...Anyone need 45 together?

Postby Ossa on Thu May 02, 2013 9:25 pm

C4 Row E wrote:
Ossa wrote:
BurghersAndDogsSports wrote:
Ossa wrote:
mac5155 wrote:How are 200 student rush tickets, most of which are probably singles, hurting resale value? If all you want to do is sell your tickets, don't buy them.

Exactly. They aren't. College students don't have the money to pay the ticket resale price. If anything it may be helping resale value.


Confusing student rush with open seats. Rush just keeps a steak going has no bearing on resale value. Open seats is what actually kills value.

In theory focring sellouts should help value, but it doesnt at all. I think you are wrong on what you just stated because there are open tickets until the day of the game and students typically cant buy them until that day (or if there are ton left like a lot of times they day before in a presale I have seen). So that hurts the value, quite a bit actually. But that is my point exactly anyways from above. There are plenty of people willing to pay say $150 but not $250, they dont sell so they are then sold for $30.

And it seems lately that season holders like me are being punished with crazy pricing to make up the difference and they are hoping for a long playoff run.

Just so you know I am not reselling my tickets, thats not why I care. I care because my prices keep going through the roof while they dont seem to be selling out most of the time. Its stupid to punish your most loyal paying customers.

To the original thought by Mac - this is where we differ and why people dont see the point. You assume that there are 200 single tickets left. But that simply isnt true, there are hundreds and sometimes thousands of perfectly good tickets in bulk left. That is why folks get frustrated. If were a few hundred singles nobody would even notice.


There not selling out most of the time? I disagree. They are selling most of their tickets, its a very small handful of tickets in the 100 level not selling and a few singles scattered throughout the arena. As for season ticket costs being too high, there hasn't been one time this entire season where I haven't lost money selling my tickets. Not once. There is no need to reduce the price if there are many people willing to pay more.


You lost money everytime? wow


I know, isn't it shocking.

Spoiler:
My bad. I'm at work and just threw it on here.
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Re: Pseudo sellout Streak...Anyone need 45 together?

Postby BurghersAndDogsSports on Thu May 02, 2013 9:48 pm

Ossa wrote:
BurghersAndDogsSports wrote:
Ossa wrote:
mac5155 wrote:How are 200 student rush tickets, most of which are probably singles, hurting resale value? If all you want to do is sell your tickets, don't buy them.

Exactly. They aren't. College students don't have the money to pay the ticket resale price. If anything it may be helping resale value.


Confusing student rush with open seats. Rush just keeps a steak going has no bearing on resale value. Open seats is what actually kills value.

In theory focring sellouts should help value, but it doesnt at all. I think you are wrong on what you just stated because there are open tickets until the day of the game and students typically cant buy them until that day (or if there are ton left like a lot of times they day before in a presale I have seen). So that hurts the value, quite a bit actually. But that is my point exactly anyways from above. There are plenty of people willing to pay say $150 but not $250, they dont sell so they are then sold for $30.

And it seems lately that season holders like me are being punished with crazy pricing to make up the difference and they are hoping for a long playoff run.

Just so you know I am not reselling my tickets, thats not why I care. I care because my prices keep going through the roof while they dont seem to be selling out most of the time. Its stupid to punish your most loyal paying customers.

To the original thought by Mac - this is where we differ and why people dont see the point. You assume that there are 200 single tickets left. But that simply isnt true, there are hundreds and sometimes thousands of perfectly good tickets in bulk left. That is why folks get frustrated. If were a few hundred singles nobody would even notice.


There not selling out most of the time? I disagree. They are selling most of their tickets, its a very small handful of tickets in the 100 level not selling and a few singles scattered throughout the arena. As for season ticket costs being too high, there hasn't been one time this entire season where I haven't lost money selling my tickets. Not once. There is no need to reduce the price if there are many people willing to pay more.


This year may have been a bit different as I am traveling more for work, but the past few years including the playoffs they were not selling like people think. Especially non season tickets regular price. I sit lower level attack once.

There have been tons of students in tons of seats. Last years playoffs they were begging us to take playoff packages and offering us more there were so many cancels.
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Re: Pseudo sellout Streak...Anyone need 45 together?

Postby knives of ice on Thu May 02, 2013 11:13 pm

anyone that wanted to go to the game easily could have gone yesterday. there were tickets on stubhub all afternoon for $30 each or less. scalpers oustide had tons of ticket for $30 or less, well under what anyone was paying sth wise

the sellout streak in many ways works against the pens and the reseller market. because this streak for some reason gets publicity people then think its so so so difficult to buy penguins tickets. it is for some games, but any weekday game you can easily get tickets for sth face value or below all season, unless we are talking about a game against the flyers. there were tons of tickets on ticketmaster as well to buy, hundreds.

people were paying $200 for second level ticket for a meaningless last game of the regular season against carolina because for some reason i guess people think they might win a jersey, but people were practically giving away tickets to game 1 of the playoffs on a wednesday nobody was interested in buying. thousands went and watched in front of a big screen in a gravel parking lot while scalpers were selling tickets for $30 right next to them waiting in line to get in. crazy.
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Re: Pseudo sellout Streak...Anyone need 45 together?

Postby King Sid the Great 87 on Fri May 03, 2013 8:05 am

I bought my season tickets 7 years ago for the sole purpose of making a profit. Haven't been to five games in that time. It's become more difficult to sell since the first playoff year, but I have had no problem making a $2000 profit each season, and that includes giving away a game or two to friends/family every year.
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Re: Pseudo sellout Streak...Anyone need 45 together?

Postby pfim on Fri May 03, 2013 8:30 am

The Pens have their policies in place for a reason. Questioning how they maximize profit without seeing any other information is a bit presumptuous.
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Re: Pseudo sellout Streak...Anyone need 45 together?

Postby BurghersAndDogsSports on Fri May 03, 2013 8:51 am

pfim wrote:The Pens have their policies in place for a reason. Questioning how they maximize profit without seeing any other information is a bit presumptuous.


I see your point but its not just what some are talking about. The first 2 years in consol I saw my prices sky rocket while at the same time seeing the number of available tickets and student rushers sky rocket. Again, I like student rush but when I am subsidizing an attempted profit grab that seemed to fail and a sellout streak it gets pretty annoying.

I get that people still can make money selling tickets, it's not doom or gloom. I also don't get how anyone can argue that it's not easier to get a ticket nowadays, they are not cheaper on places like stub hub than before and there aren't ten times as many students as the last few years in Mellon. Seems clearly obvious to me.
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Re: Pseudo sellout Streak...Anyone need 45 together?

Postby pfim on Fri May 03, 2013 9:22 am

I'm not sure you're viewing the economics correctly. You seem to think that there is a revenue pie which is split up however the Pens want. That if they can't get the price they want from the students, they get it from the STH. That's not really the case.

From way afar, it seems that you feel they're taking advantage of you because they know with some certainty that a good portion of the STH will continue to pay the higher prices. That's demand.

Look at it this way. What is the price at which supply equals demand? If the seat is $230 now, how much would the price need to be reduced to sell out? That seems to be what you guys are arguing.

Then the second question is, is this the price where profit is maximized? How many seats need to be unsold before the price needs to be dropped? The answer to these questions probably aren't the same as the previous questions.
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Re: Pseudo sellout Streak...Anyone need 45 together?

Postby Idoit40fans on Fri May 03, 2013 9:24 am

I don't think they've reached a breaking point yet, but I think they're at the point that when they increase next year, they're going to have passed it.
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Re: Pseudo sellout Streak...Anyone need 45 together?

Postby llipgh2 on Fri May 03, 2013 9:27 am

Idoit40fans wrote:I don't think they've reached a breaking point yet, but I think they're at the point that when they increase next year, they're going to have passed it.


If the price increase is too drastic, while I will buy season tickets, I will probably sell off more games than I do now.
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Re: Pseudo sellout Streak...Anyone need 45 together?

Postby Idoit40fans on Fri May 03, 2013 9:44 am

llipgh2 wrote:
Idoit40fans wrote:I don't think they've reached a breaking point yet, but I think they're at the point that when they increase next year, they're going to have passed it.


If the price increase is too drastic, while I will buy season tickets, I will probably sell off more games than I do now.


I never missed a game when I was living in Pittsburgh. My mom picked up doing the same thing when I moved afew years ago up until this year. This year she sold quite a few. She'll be in the same situation as you if there is another drastic increase. Selling a lot of games. Probably figuring out the ones I am going to come home to take and then putting everything else up for a modest profit, unless she wants to go to the game in which case she'll make it up a ton. Obviously we have discussed this haha.
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Re: Pseudo sellout Streak...Anyone need 45 together?

Postby newarenanow on Fri May 03, 2013 9:59 am

C4 Row E wrote:The following is the ideal situation and it's a win win for everyone............

1. Do student rush about 4 times per year on random Tuesday games that you'll never sell out
2. Offer mini-plans to waiting listers at STH price....they'll be gobbled up to sell out status right away
3. During the playoffs....absolutely no student rush. Have a lottery for those on the waiting list to buy at STH price.

THIS maximizes profits


They do 1 & 2 already.
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Re: Pseudo sellout Streak...Anyone need 45 together?

Postby newarenanow on Fri May 03, 2013 10:03 am

King Sid the Great 87 wrote:I bought my season tickets 7 years ago for the sole purpose of making a profit. Haven't been to five games in that time. It's become more difficult to sell since the first playoff year, but I have had no problem making a $2000 profit each season, and that includes giving away a game or two to friends/family every year.


I've never had issues either. Not sure where you sit, but I sit in the upper section in the double attack zone, and those tickets sell relatively well. I sell enough games that my season tickets are paid for, and go to the rest. I could make a nice profit if I sold a few more games, but I chose not to.

I think the lower section is the issue. Those tickets are pretty damn expensive. But Corporations and rich people buy those.
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Re: Pseudo sellout Streak...Anyone need 45 together?

Postby Jopaz on Fri May 03, 2013 10:09 am

After reading this thread, it seems like some people are unhappy that the Pens sell tickets for student rush, or think that because they have student rush tickets left then that somehow proves that prices are too high.

I think the Pens have a good business plan and know what they are doing. As a STH, I buy tickets at an agreed upon price, and I feel that I get a good price because I buy the whole season up front. The Pens get a commitment that those seats are sold for the whole year. They don't care if I re-sell them or make a profit....in fact they help to facilitate that via Ticket Exchange, and get another 10% there.

While the Pens could sell all seats as a season package, they choose to keep around 3,000 available for single game sales. They sell these at a higher price, but they take the risk that some may not be sold and those end up as student rush, promotional give-aways, donate to charity or military folks, etc. They probably figure on getting about the same revenue (or more) for that seat over the course of the season as they would by selling it as a season package.

I don't see a problem with any of this. They are trying to have some balanced options for the fans. It does not change anything for me if they want to sell tickets for student rush or give them away. It's their decision. I really don't care about the sellout streak, and would expect it to end some Tuesday night next October. That will not change anything but we can stop talking about it.

Also, for the playoffs, I suspect a number of corporate STH owners do not buy the playoff package, either due to additional cost, short notice on game schedules, or it is too intense for business related events. This actually makes more tickets available for playoffs than for regular season. And some people buy the playoff package knowing that they can't go afford to go to all of the games but maybe will sell a couple to help with the costs. The fact that the Pens lets STH pay after the end of the round rather than in advance helps fans to manage the cost.

In general, they are a good organization and they have a good business plan. The idea that they are somehow not treating fans fairly just does not make sense to me. As fans, we always have the option to not buy what they are selling.
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Re: Pseudo sellout Streak...Anyone need 45 together?

Postby ExPatriatePen on Fri May 03, 2013 10:18 am

So, after the Steelers Dynasty years, they had a humongous waiting list for season tickets. Turns out that by the early 90's they started to notice that the interest in the Steelers amongst the under 30 set had declined on a percentage basis. Turns out that they had unintentionally effectively pushed that age group right out of its ability to see games (at least in person -- unless of course they went on someone else's (Mom and Dads?) tickets).

I remember hearing Tom Rooney commenting once that the Student Rush program was an attempt to keep that type of situation from occuring to the Pens.
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Re: Pseudo sellout Streak...Anyone need 45 together?

Postby topshelf66 on Fri May 03, 2013 10:33 am

If the Penguins wanted to generate the most ticket revenue short term, they would sell every ticket as a season tickets. They could easily do this at current or even higher pricing.

Holding back a few thousand to each game for General Public and the Student Rush program are investments they are making in their future fan base. We all know that hockey is a game best appreciated live.

Holding back these tickets for General Public does allow for the possibility that a particular game may not "sell out" for whatever reason. A nice side-effect of the Student Rush program is that it is a safety valve to keep the sellout streak alive. The Penguins take pride in this streak. Those callling the Student Rush a dishonest way to keep the strek alive should keep in mind that the Pens could also keep the strek alive by selling every seat as a season ticket. I find it odd that the same people that suggest lowering all of the ticket pricies as a means to generate a "legitimate sellout" call using 200 Student Rush tickets cheating.

If you lower the price on 18,500 tickets by $10.00, you reduce revenue by $185,000.00 per game. If you reduce 200 student rush tickets by $30.00 per ticket, the reduction is $6,000.00.

One day all Season Tickets will be bid upon E-Bay style. Whatever is left will go to the General Public in the same manner. This will be true market pricing.
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Re: Pseudo sellout Streak...Anyone need 45 together?

Postby Idoit40fans on Fri May 03, 2013 10:51 am

I think waiting listers should be able to buy the general public tickets at sth price.
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Re: Pseudo sellout Streak...Anyone need 45 together?

Postby topshelf66 on Fri May 03, 2013 11:02 am

Idoit40fans wrote:I think waiting listers should be able to buy the general public tickets at sth price.


I agree for a certain number of games. Maybe 4-5.
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Re: Pseudo sellout Streak...Anyone need 45 together?

Postby Ossa on Fri May 03, 2013 12:55 pm

BurghersAndDogsSports wrote:
pfim wrote:The Pens have their policies in place for a reason. Questioning how they maximize profit without seeing any other information is a bit presumptuous.


The first 2 years in consol I saw my prices sky rocket while at the same time seeing the number of available tickets and student rushers sky rocket. Again, I like student rush but when I am subsidizing an attempted profit grab that seemed to fail and a sellout streak it gets pretty annoying.


That's the most ridiculous statement I've ever heard. It's not true at all. There were way more student rush tickets available at the Igloo. I'd student rush every other night. Also, there are more seats in Consol. 1,500 more.
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Re: Pseudo sellout Streak...Anyone need 45 together?

Postby Ossa on Fri May 03, 2013 12:57 pm

Idoit40fans wrote:I think waiting listers should be able to buy the general public tickets at sth price.


The Pens offered them discounted tickets to a number of games this season.
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Re: Pseudo sellout Streak...Anyone need 45 together?

Postby Kovy27 on Fri May 03, 2013 1:05 pm

Ossa wrote:
BurghersAndDogsSports wrote:
pfim wrote:The Pens have their policies in place for a reason. Questioning how they maximize profit without seeing any other information is a bit presumptuous.


The first 2 years in consol I saw my prices sky rocket while at the same time seeing the number of available tickets and student rushers sky rocket. Again, I like student rush but when I am subsidizing an attempted profit grab that seemed to fail and a sellout streak it gets pretty annoying.


That's the most ridiculous statement I've ever heard. It's not true at all. There were way more student rush tickets available at the Igloo. I'd student rush every other night. Also, there are more seats in Consol. 1,500 more.


So, here's my beef. You are a bigger part of the problem than just the whole student rush process. You have season tickets and you are still student rushing while probably making a profit off your tickets.

While the Pens really don't give too **** what you are doing, there are people sitting on the waiting list that could fill those seats which means you could still sell your tickets, but you would be forced to sit at home watching the game instead of making money + going to the game.

That's my 2 cents. I student rushed when no one was going to the games and I have my season tickets now...but there is 10k+ on the waiting list that deserve to be in those seats over some college student.
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Re: Pseudo sellout Streak...Anyone need 45 together?

Postby knives of ice on Fri May 03, 2013 1:22 pm

Kovy27 wrote:
Ossa wrote:
BurghersAndDogsSports wrote:
pfim wrote:The Pens have their policies in place for a reason. Questioning how they maximize profit without seeing any other information is a bit presumptuous.


The first 2 years in consol I saw my prices sky rocket while at the same time seeing the number of available tickets and student rushers sky rocket. Again, I like student rush but when I am subsidizing an attempted profit grab that seemed to fail and a sellout streak it gets pretty annoying.


That's the most ridiculous statement I've ever heard. It's not true at all. There were way more student rush tickets available at the Igloo. I'd student rush every other night. Also, there are more seats in Consol. 1,500 more.


So, here's my beef. You are a bigger part of the problem than just the whole student rush process. You have season tickets and you are still student rushing while probably making a profit off your tickets.

While the Pens really don't give too **** what you are doing, there are people sitting on the waiting list that could fill those seats which means you could still sell your tickets, but you would be forced to sit at home watching the game instead of making money + going to the game.

That's my 2 cents. I student rushed when no one was going to the games and I have my season tickets now...but there is 10k+ on the waiting list that deserve to be in those seats over some college student.



i agree with the premise, but anyone could have easily bought tickets to the last playoff game if they wanted to go. they were readily available at below face value.

however as the playoffs move on that many tickets available at that cheap of price obviously won't be the norm.
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