Staal vs Sutter

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Re: Staal vs Sutter

Postby shmenguin on Wed May 01, 2013 6:33 am

penmyst wrote:Even if you only consider it straight up Sutter v. Staal, the Pens came out on top.


Pretty sure every GM in the league would disagree with you there.
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Re: Staal vs Sutter

Postby slappybrown on Wed May 01, 2013 7:06 am

It's not even close. I'm very happy with the trade, but Staal is unquestionably better player than Sutter in a straight up comparison. That's not intended as a slight to Sutter; it's just reality.
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Re: Staal vs Sutter

Postby penmyst on Wed May 01, 2013 7:39 am

shmenguin wrote:
penmyst wrote:Even if you only consider it straight up Sutter v. Staal, the Pens came out on top.


Pretty sure every GM in the league would disagree with you there.


You, and these "GMs" in the league, think that the Canes with Staal are better off than the Pens with Sutter?

Hell no.

Sutter is doing things for the Pens that Staal wasn't willing to do any longer. End of. Which is why the Pens came out on top in this one, comparing just those two players. Goals and assists are not the be-all-end-all of player assessment.
Last edited by penmyst on Wed May 01, 2013 7:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Staal vs Sutter

Postby Letang Is The Truth on Wed May 01, 2013 7:41 am

wait wat?
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Re: Staal vs Sutter

Postby columbia on Wed May 01, 2013 7:43 am

I'm very happy with Sutter's performance, but.... :?
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Re: Staal vs Sutter

Postby Gaucho on Wed May 01, 2013 7:46 am

Former Toy Syndrome
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Re: Staal vs Sutter

Postby penmyst on Wed May 01, 2013 8:01 am

columbia wrote:I'm very happy with Sutter's performance, but.... :?


So am I. I understand the idea that Staal is a better overall player than Sutter. Maybe he is. But until Jordan makes "Beast Mode" his default setting, he is not going to realize his potential.

I'm not blind, and I know plenty about hockey. When Staal is in his Gary Roberts mode of "will not be stopped", he can and does impose his will on teams in their own zone wreaking all sorts of havoc. But those times are inexplicably inconsistent. If Staal played like Kunitz plays ALL the time, he'd be a superstar.

He wants more than the Pens can give, and that's why he left. He didn't realize his potential with Carolina this year. Meanwhile, Sutter actually did MORE. Adding a bit more offensive touch and awareness than I expected, to go along with some real sublime hockey smarts.
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Re: Staal vs Sutter

Postby Idoit40fans on Wed May 01, 2013 8:15 am

Regardless of "Beast Mode" Staal is better than Sutter.
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Re: Staal vs Sutter

Postby itissteeltime on Wed May 01, 2013 8:18 am

Check the Pens PK numbers with and without Staal. That is why he's the better player.
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Re: Staal vs Sutter

Postby Great58 on Wed May 01, 2013 8:26 am

Staal is better than Sutter. Sutter many fill the Pens needs better, and allow for better players to fill out the lineup, and utilmately make the Pens a better team than they had before the Staal trade, but it ends there.
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Re: Staal vs Sutter

Postby Letang Is The Truth on Wed May 01, 2013 8:27 am

rather than having vertical strength, losing staal allows for horizontal strength
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Re: Staal vs Sutter

Postby columbia on Wed May 01, 2013 8:32 am

Letang Is The Truth wrote:rather than having vertical strength, losing staal allows for horizontal strength


They've gone from Chinook to Osprey mode?
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Re: Staal vs Sutter

Postby GaryRissling on Wed May 01, 2013 8:49 am

Staal makes a few bucks more than Patrice Bergeron.

He's no Patrice Bergeron.
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Re: Staal vs Sutter

Postby Idoit40fans on Wed May 01, 2013 8:51 am

Yeah, he can be relied on to miss less than 10 games per season due to head injury.
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Re: Staal vs Sutter

Postby GaryRissling on Wed May 01, 2013 8:58 am

Staal almost makes $1million more than Jamie benn, and he's in the ballpark with Datsyuk.

Point is, his compensation puts him in with company his level of play isn't on par with.
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Re: Staal vs Sutter

Postby Letang Is The Truth on Wed May 01, 2013 9:00 am

Image
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Re: Staal vs Sutter

Postby shmenguin on Wed May 01, 2013 9:10 am

penmyst wrote:You, and these "GMs" in the league, think that the Canes with Staal are better off than the Pens with Sutter?


the 2013 blue jackets are better than the 1985 penguins. lemieux must have really sucked.
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Re: Staal vs Sutter

Postby shmenguin on Wed May 01, 2013 9:14 am

penmyst wrote:He didn't realize his potential with Carolina this year. Meanwhile, Sutter actually did MORE. Adding a bit more offensive touch and awareness than I expected, to go along with some real sublime hockey smarts.


sutter's numbers this year were on pace with his last 3 years in carolina. i wouldn't exactly call that progression.
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Re: Staal vs Sutter

Postby Nizzy on Wed May 01, 2013 11:55 am

SolidSnake wrote:Sutter. Most expected Staal to dominate since he was in a bigger role and he failed. Staal choose poorly.


Jordan picked poorly? lol?

Jordan wanted to play with his family. Now it's also easier for his parents to visit one location compared to 3 different ones. I'm sure Jordan's new wife would rather have a house in NC than Pittsburgh. I think Jordan chose the best spot for himself. Not everything is about goals and assists.
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Re: Staal vs Sutter

Postby Fast B on Wed May 01, 2013 12:01 pm

Nizzy wrote:
SolidSnake wrote:Sutter. Most expected Staal to dominate since he was in a bigger role and he failed. Staal choose poorly.


Jordan picked poorly? lol?

Jordan wanted to play with his family. Now it's also easier for his parents to visit one location compared to 3 different ones. I'm sure Jordan's new wife would rather have a house in NC than Pittsburgh. I think Jordan chose the best spot for himself. Not everything is about goals and assists.


Well, I certainly hope he and his family are happy as he plays for a lousy team with no relief in sight. I suppose he can cry himself to sleep on his giant pile of money though.
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Re: Staal vs Sutter

Postby Beveridge on Wed May 01, 2013 12:23 pm

Fast B wrote:
Nizzy wrote:
SolidSnake wrote:Sutter. Most expected Staal to dominate since he was in a bigger role and he failed. Staal choose poorly.


Jordan picked poorly? lol?

Jordan wanted to play with his family. Now it's also easier for his parents to visit one location compared to 3 different ones. I'm sure Jordan's new wife would rather have a house in NC than Pittsburgh. I think Jordan chose the best spot for himself. Not everything is about goals and assists.


Well, I certainly hope he and his family are happy as he plays for a lousy team with no relief in sight. I suppose he can cry himself to sleep on his giant pile of money though.


To be fair, one could make an argument if not for Ward injury, Pens are playing Rangers, Sens, or Caps tonight because Carolina wins that division.
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Re: Staal vs Sutter

Postby pcm on Wed May 01, 2013 12:29 pm

Yeah, Carolina will be fine. Jordan will be playing playoff hockey soon enough. Waa waa.

Sutter's not been anything special. He's scored some big goals, and played decent defensively, but for most of the season Cooke-Sutter-TK has been invisible. I blame Blysma for that largely, as he has a specific role for Sutter that isn't the most inspiring... I mean this team has played half the season without one of its top two centers and Sutter never gets a sniff of filling in in the top 6? I'd be pissed. Those are the kind of opportunities to develop your game, grow as a player, etc. At least now he gets to play with a guy who can create something offensively in Morrow...
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Re: Staal vs Sutter

Postby Steve Dave on Wed May 01, 2013 12:42 pm

pcm wrote:Yeah, Carolina will be fine. Jordan will be playing playoff hockey soon enough. Waa waa.


One could argue with the new playoff format that will be implemented next year, Staal may not see the playoffs for quite some time. Carolina will be competing with Pit, Phi, NYR, NYI, NJ, Wsh and Clb for 4 spots. I can see Clb, NYI and NJ missing the playoffs but Phi will most likely bounce back and Pit, NYR and Wsh (depending on Ovie's play) may be a tough hurdle. There's always the "wild card" spot but they would have to beat out 2 of Bos, Mtl, Ott, Det and Tor.
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Re: Staal vs Sutter

Postby shmenguin on Wed May 01, 2013 1:03 pm

pcm wrote:Sutter's not been anything special. He's scored some big goals, and played decent defensively, but for most of the season Cooke-Sutter-TK has been invisible. I blame Blysma for that largely, as he has a specific role for Sutter that isn't the most inspiring... I mean this team has played half the season without one of its top two centers and Sutter never gets a sniff of filling in in the top 6? I'd be pissed.


here's a list of all of sutter's top 6 center qualifications:

1)has a good shot when he has time and space to get it off.

/list

he's good as a 3rd line center, but he doesn't have top 6 tools. skating, playmaking, vision, creativity, elevating the players around him. that isn't sutter. he's a defensive center who can convert opportunities, but can't create them. according to our record, that'll do. it's also helpful in filling out a lineup in years to come. he doesn't appear to be a guy that's going to be expensive to keep.
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Re: Staal vs Sutter

Postby duke66 on Wed May 01, 2013 1:18 pm

apples and oranges if u ask me. staal had progressed to want and need a larger role (not withstanding his desire to play with his bro's in cane-town). sutter is younger and cheaper and perhaps less skilled, but as many have said, plays the third centre role perfectly. 87 and 71 will always be ahead of whomever they slide into the 3rd hole. i know it was a shorter season, but sutter out-scored staal. i'll take that any year, plus his added skills on d. and staal's salary allowed for this "all in" mode from gmrs with iginla, morrow, murray and the juice. if staal signs this year with the pens, those players aren't here now, and i would suspect us as fans would be a tad less confident with the second season upon us. just my opinion.
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