Fleury

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Re: Fleury

Postby columbia on Mon May 13, 2013 3:24 pm

I have no idea what will happen with Vokoun in net, but I have zero belief that they would win with MAF.

That's on him; not the fan base.
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Re: Fleury

Postby Troy Loney on Mon May 13, 2013 3:29 pm

AlexPKeaton wrote:
DropEmJayBird wrote:Also - my guess is after Vokoun gets beat by the slowest wrap around ever, then gives up a goal because he couldn't get up to cover it - the "start fleury" threads will all pop up on LGP. It's how we treat our goalies... we are the Mike Keenan of the message board world.


I disagree. The fan base has stuck with Fleury far longer than most would have lol.



Not all of the fanbase.
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Re: Fleury

Postby SoupOrSam on Mon May 13, 2013 3:35 pm

I believe Fleury is hands-down my choice for a shoot-out/in-game 1-0 breakaway....... His raw natural instincts take over and don't allow him to over-think, pure athleticism takes over and wins. Wouldn't want another goaltender from any other team.

However, when the dude has to think... it's pure farts. Completely over-thinks everything. I don't know, I used to defend it and say it's because of WXYZ (young, defense, coaching, etc) but I just can no longer tell myself it. That series completely made up my mind about him. He is a trainwreck mentally.
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Re: Fleury

Postby Crankshaft on Mon May 13, 2013 3:41 pm

columbia wrote:I have no idea what will happen with Vokoun in net, but I have zero belief that they would win with MAF.

That's on him; not the fan base.


I guarantee you the guys in that locker room believe they can win with him in net. Good thing the fan base has 0 to do with reality within the game and in the locker room.
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Re: Fleury

Postby slappybrown on Mon May 13, 2013 3:45 pm

Crankshaft wrote:
columbia wrote:I have no idea what will happen with Vokoun in net, but I have zero belief that they would win with MAF.

That's on him; not the fan base.


I guarantee you the guys in that locker room believe they can win with him in net. Good thing the fan base has 0 to do with reality within the game and in the locker room.

How can you know this? No one would ever say "we should start Vokoun over Fleury because Fleury keeps imploding in the playoffs", but I'm pretty sure that deep down, each of them has their own opinion about who is the better choice/who they can with. Did you never question a coach's decision when you played sports?
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Re: Fleury

Postby DelPen on Mon May 13, 2013 3:45 pm

Then only way Fleury could and should be bought out is if Vokoun wins a Cup as a starter this year and they have the money from playoff gate to cover a buyout.
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Re: Fleury

Postby slappybrown on Mon May 13, 2013 4:03 pm

http://old.post-gazette.com/pg/13133/1319442-87.stm

The guess here is Bylsma will go with Vokoun again in Game 1 against the Senators and ride him until he loses or has a bad game, although I wouldn't have any problem if he went right back to Fleury. It has to be back to Fleury at some point. Vokoun was acquired in a trade with Washington before the season to rescue the Penguins in case Fleury had a bad game or was injured. But Fleury is the man who has to play the majority of games if the team is going to compete for the Cup. The franchise has bet millions that he is their guy.

Fleury will get another chance. He must get another chance if the Penguins are going to win the Cup.



Someone should call Ron and explain the concept of "sunk cost" to him.

Fleury defenders, you now agree with Ron Cook. Game over.
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Re: Fleury

Postby NashvilleCat on Mon May 13, 2013 4:08 pm

slappybrown wrote:http://old.post-gazette.com/pg/13133/1319442-87.stm

The guess here is Bylsma will go with Vokoun again in Game 1 against the Senators and ride him until he loses or has a bad game, although I wouldn't have any problem if he went right back to Fleury. It has to be back to Fleury at some point. Vokoun was acquired in a trade with Washington before the season to rescue the Penguins in case Fleury had a bad game or was injured. But Fleury is the man who has to play the majority of games if the team is going to compete for the Cup. The franchise has bet millions that he is their guy.

Fleury will get another chance. He must get another chance if the Penguins are going to win the Cup.



Someone should call Ron and explain the concept of "sunk cost" to him.

Fleury defenders, you now agree with Ron Cook. Game over.

So if Vokoun plays lights-out and the Pens keep winning then why must Fluery get another chance for the Pens to win the Cup? Ron Cook makes no sense. That's redundant, isn't it?
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Re: Fleury

Postby slappybrown on Mon May 13, 2013 4:09 pm

Pretty much.
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Re: Fleury

Postby champeen on Mon May 13, 2013 4:15 pm

the notion that they "can't" win a cup with vokoun in net is just ridiculous. it's 12 more wins. he's played great in back to back wins so far, but suddenly he's going to get 'old' in the next month?
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Re: Fleury

Postby Henry Hank on Mon May 13, 2013 4:17 pm

Cook regurgitating the "Fleury has to be the guy to take them to the Cup" mantra. Still makes no sense to me. People are really selling Vokoun short, as if he's been a career back-up. The guy's been a legitimately strong starting goalie for about a decade. There's zero reason Vokoun couldn't back stop a team to the Cup.
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Re: Fleury

Postby slappybrown on Mon May 13, 2013 4:18 pm

Henry Hank wrote:Cook regurgitating the "Fleury has to be the guy to take them to the Cup" mantra. Still makes no sense to me. People are really selling Vokoun short, as if he's been a career back-up. The guy's been a legitimately strong starting goalie for about a decade. There's zero reason Vokoun couldn't back stop a team to the Cup.

The dirty little secret here is that Vokoun has been better than Fleury for nearly Fleury's entire career, and slightly better this season as well, playing behind the same team.
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Re: Fleury

Postby Malkamaniac on Mon May 13, 2013 4:20 pm

slappybrown wrote:
Henry Hank wrote:Cook regurgitating the "Fleury has to be the guy to take them to the Cup" mantra. Still makes no sense to me. People are really selling Vokoun short, as if he's been a career back-up. The guy's been a legitimately strong starting goalie for about a decade. There's zero reason Vokoun couldn't back stop a team to the Cup.

The dirty little secret here is that Vokoun has been better than Fleury for nearly Fleury's entire career, and slightly better this season as well, playing behind the same team.


Vokoun has been consistently great on below average teams. I was terrified of him when he went to the Caps because of what he could do. Team in front of him gives up 40 shots and loses the game 1-0.
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Re: Fleury

Postby DontToewsMeBro on Mon May 13, 2013 4:21 pm

Henry Hank wrote:Cook regurgitating the "Fleury has to be the guy to take them to the Cup" mantra. Still makes no sense to me. People are really selling Vokoun short, as if he's been a career back-up. The guy's been a legitimately strong starting goalie for about a decade. There's zero reason Vokoun couldn't back stop a team to the Cup.


Yep. He's one of the best modern goaltenders still in the game (historically and statistically).
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Re: Fleury

Postby pens_CT on Mon May 13, 2013 4:22 pm

slappybrown wrote:
Henry Hank wrote:Cook regurgitating the "Fleury has to be the guy to take them to the Cup" mantra. Still makes no sense to me. People are really selling Vokoun short, as if he's been a career back-up. The guy's been a legitimately strong starting goalie for about a decade. There's zero reason Vokoun couldn't back stop a team to the Cup.

The dirty little secret here is that Vokoun has been better than Fleury for nearly Fleury's entire career, and slightly better this season as well, playing behind the same team.

Doesn't really matter what Vokoun has done previously, it only matters how he performs now. If he keeps playing well then he should stay in goal, if he has a bad game or two than MAF is going back into the net. Bylsma is not losing a playoff series with a back-up goalie.
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Re: Fleury

Postby slappybrown on Mon May 13, 2013 4:23 pm

pens_CT wrote:
slappybrown wrote:
Henry Hank wrote:Cook regurgitating the "Fleury has to be the guy to take them to the Cup" mantra. Still makes no sense to me. People are really selling Vokoun short, as if he's been a career back-up. The guy's been a legitimately strong starting goalie for about a decade. There's zero reason Vokoun couldn't back stop a team to the Cup.

The dirty little secret here is that Vokoun has been better than Fleury for nearly Fleury's entire career, and slightly better this season as well, playing behind the same team.

Doesn't really matter what Vokoun has done previously, it only matters how he performs now. If he keeps playing well then he should stay in goal, if he has a bad game or two than MAF is going back into the net. Bylsma is not losing a playoff series with a back-up goalie.

The historical point was in terms of people slagging Vokoun as though he's a "back-up goalie" in substance rather than in name only.

If Fleury wasn't a number one pick with the 5mm contract, would we be discussing starting him over TV based on this season/playoffs alone? Of course not.

So apparently its ok to lose it because you went back to your dumpster fire goalie?
Last edited by slappybrown on Mon May 13, 2013 4:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Fleury

Postby Admin on Mon May 13, 2013 4:24 pm

It's time. Brain swap for a better Franken-goalie.
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Re: Fleury

Postby Malkamaniac on Mon May 13, 2013 4:24 pm

pens_CT wrote:
slappybrown wrote:
Henry Hank wrote:Cook regurgitating the "Fleury has to be the guy to take them to the Cup" mantra. Still makes no sense to me. People are really selling Vokoun short, as if he's been a career back-up. The guy's been a legitimately strong starting goalie for about a decade. There's zero reason Vokoun couldn't back stop a team to the Cup.

The dirty little secret here is that Vokoun has been better than Fleury for nearly Fleury's entire career, and slightly better this season as well, playing behind the same team.

Doesn't really matter what Vokoun has done previously, it only matters how he performs now. If he keeps playing well then he should stay in goal, if he has a bad game or two than MAF is going back into the net. Bylsma is not losing a playoff series with a back-up goalie.


I hate that he's even considered a back-up goalie. He just closed out the series as a starting goaltender. He's your "starter" going into next round, hands down.
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Re: Fleury

Postby pfim on Mon May 13, 2013 4:25 pm

Henry Hank wrote:Cook regurgitating the "Fleury has to be the guy to take them to the Cup" mantra. Still makes no sense to me. People are really selling Vokoun short, as if he's been a career back-up. The guy's been a legitimately strong starting goalie for about a decade. There's zero reason Vokoun couldn't back stop a team to the Cup.


That makes sense if the backup is Ty Conklin or Brent Johnson. Not so much now.
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Re: Fleury

Postby PPenguinsFan66 on Mon May 13, 2013 4:26 pm

http://triblive.com/sports/kevingorman/ ... z2TCghpP5Y

Penguins goaltenders coach Gilles Meloche breaks down video of every goal allowed, looking to see if the goalies are out of position and seeking clues about their confidence, and contends the only bad goal Fleury allowed was the last goal in his last game.

“He just doesn't have puck luck right now,” Meloche said.


What were some saying about Meloche?
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Re: Fleury

Postby Malkamaniac on Mon May 13, 2013 4:27 pm

Every bad goal/soft goal can't be attributed to having bad puck luck. You make your own luck in most instances.
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Re: Fleury

Postby pens_CT on Mon May 13, 2013 4:31 pm

slappybrown wrote:
pens_CT wrote:
slappybrown wrote:
Henry Hank wrote:Cook regurgitating the "Fleury has to be the guy to take them to the Cup" mantra. Still makes no sense to me. People are really selling Vokoun short, as if he's been a career back-up. The guy's been a legitimately strong starting goalie for about a decade. There's zero reason Vokoun couldn't back stop a team to the Cup.

The dirty little secret here is that Vokoun has been better than Fleury for nearly Fleury's entire career, and slightly better this season as well, playing behind the same team.

Doesn't really matter what Vokoun has done previously, it only matters how he performs now. If he keeps playing well then he should stay in goal, if he has a bad game or two than MAF is going back into the net. Bylsma is not losing a playoff series with a back-up goalie.

The historical point was in terms of people slagging Vokoun as though he's a "back-up goalie" in substance rather than in name only.

If Fleury wasn't a number one pick with the 5mm contract, would we be discussing starting him over TV based on this season/playoffs alone? Of course not.

So apparently its ok to lose it because you went back to your dumpster fire goalie?


Where MAF was picked and how much he makes has nothing to do with the decision. Just like people remembering how great Vokoun was several years ago with Nashville or Florida has nothing to do with the decision now either. He deserves the right to start the series, but if he falters then you are getting MAF back in goal because this isn't last year when this team didn't have a NHL quality 2nd goalie on the roster to turn to.
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Re: Fleury

Postby slappybrown on Mon May 13, 2013 4:32 pm

pens_CT wrote:
slappybrown wrote:
pens_CT wrote:
slappybrown wrote:
Henry Hank wrote:Cook regurgitating the "Fleury has to be the guy to take them to the Cup" mantra. Still makes no sense to me. People are really selling Vokoun short, as if he's been a career back-up. The guy's been a legitimately strong starting goalie for about a decade. There's zero reason Vokoun couldn't back stop a team to the Cup.

The dirty little secret here is that Vokoun has been better than Fleury for nearly Fleury's entire career, and slightly better this season as well, playing behind the same team.

Doesn't really matter what Vokoun has done previously, it only matters how he performs now. If he keeps playing well then he should stay in goal, if he has a bad game or two than MAF is going back into the net. Bylsma is not losing a playoff series with a back-up goalie.

The historical point was in terms of people slagging Vokoun as though he's a "back-up goalie" in substance rather than in name only.

If Fleury wasn't a number one pick with the 5mm contract, would we be discussing starting him over TV based on this season/playoffs alone? Of course not.

So apparently its ok to lose it because you went back to your dumpster fire goalie?


Where MAF was picked and how much he makes has nothing to do with the decision. Just like people remembering how great Vokoun was several years ago with Nashville or Florida has nothing to do with the decision now either. He deserves the right to start the series, but if he falters then you are getting MAF back in goal because this isn't last year when this team didn't have a NHL quality 2nd goalie on the roster to turn to.


I agree it shouldn't have anything to do with it.
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Re: Fleury

Postby It'sagreatdayforhockey! on Mon May 13, 2013 4:38 pm

tfrizz wrote:
DropEmJayBird wrote:Also - my guess is after Vokoun gets beat by the slowest wrap around ever, then gives up a goal because he couldn't get up to cover it - the "start fleury" threads will all pop up on LGP. It's how we treat our goalies... we are the Mike Keenan of the message board world.


Doubt it. It'd be more like if the Pens get eliminated we'll see posts saying "Should the Pens have gone back to Fleury?", especially if it's a short series.



There is no way we don't see Fleury in that scenario. Fleury is probably back in to start the series or during the back to back. But if not, they are definitely going back to him if Vokoun loses 2 (or even 2 out of 3) early on or looks really bad.
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Re: Fleury

Postby Beveridge on Mon May 13, 2013 4:44 pm

This team is going to win by how the 18 skaters in front of the goalies play.

I feel that both Fleury (game 3) and Vokoun (game 6) stole a game. While games 1 and 5 were the Pens playing better in front of them.

I don't think either goalie is bad enough to lose us a series, and neither is good enough (see Henry) to win a series on their own.
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