Fleury

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Re: Fleury

Postby Rylan on Mon May 13, 2013 11:31 pm

So the plan is to wing it?
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Re: Fleury

Postby Scott on Mon May 13, 2013 11:39 pm

columbia wrote:Keep in mind that this was written BEFORE the playoffs started.....

Marc-Andre Fleury: Mediocre Goalie With Undeserved Reputation
http://www.coppernblue.com/2012/4/25/29 ... ry-good-no


So Scuderi and Gill should be blamed here for all this. Right? Here was the d that year,

Letang, Gill, Scuderi, Gonchar, Orpik, Eaton on a nightly basis in the playoffs. So what gives that Fleury was so amazing that year? It certainly couldn't have been from the "D" lineup we had...right? :?
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Re: Fleury

Postby slappybrown on Mon May 13, 2013 11:44 pm

Fleury was 11th in save% the year we won the Cup (16 teams in the playoffs of course). He was awesome in the Finals aside from the blow up in game 5, but overall, he was hardly in an elite class. The year before is his only true stretch of consistently elite play. Its not the defense. Its him.
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Re: Fleury

Postby Rocco on Mon May 13, 2013 11:53 pm

I'd say in 2009 he was better than his numbers- he had some absolute clunkers (Game 5 against Philly, Game 6 against Washington, Game 5 against Detroit) that drove down his stats but on the whole he played well for a team that occasionally forgot defense was important. He also had a few bizarre goals scored on him. Put simply, I don't remember thinking he was a problem save the aforementioned clunker games. Since then it's been 4 playoff runs without anything approaching elite. And while it's incredibly lazy and ignorant to blame or credit a player for deciding the outcome of a series on his own, his play against Montreal and Philly put the Pens behind the 8-ball. Even without looking at the numbers, I don't think he was always this way and we never noticed- he's gotten shakier over the years under the lights.

The problem is finding someone better than him for the regular season. At some point the Pens need to look for his successor. I imagine Shero thought he could wait to do that for a few more years but he may have to speed up the timetable.
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Re: Fleury

Postby Scott on Tue May 14, 2013 3:12 am

Rocco wrote:
The problem is finding someone better than him for the regular season. At some point the Pens need to look for his successor. I imagine Shero thought he could wait to do that for a few more years but he may have to speed up the timetable.


Why? Isn't it possible to run with Fleury for the regular season and possibly have him platoon the playoffs with another goalie.

It wouldn't be the first time a professional team did something out of the ordinary. Chris Osgood in reverse.

Moreover everyone has this notion that this team has to have a legend playing in net or it can't win. If they can get solid play from a goalie then that should be enough with the offensive talent on this team.

Solid play meaning a goalie who makes the saves he is supposed to make. Doesn't have to be an acrobat in the crease. Just make the save he should be making.
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Re: Fleury

Postby Scott on Tue May 14, 2013 3:12 am

Rocco wrote:
The problem is finding someone better than him for the regular season. At some point the Pens need to look for his successor. I imagine Shero thought he could wait to do that for a few more years but he may have to speed up the timetable.


Why? Isn't it possible to run with Fleury for the regular season and possibly have him platoon the playoffs with another goalie.

It wouldn't be the first time a professional team did something out of the ordinary. Chris Osgood in reverse.

Moreover everyone has this notion that this team has to have a legend playing in net or it can't win. If they can get solid play from a goalie then that should be enough with the offensive talent on this team.

Solid play meaning a goalie who makes the saves he is supposed to make. Doesn't have to be an acrobat in the crease. Just make the save he should be making.
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Re: Fleury

Postby Crankshaft on Tue May 14, 2013 8:40 am

No one has come up with a viable solution to replace Fleury. Just that buying him out is the answer.
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Re: Fleury

Postby sil on Tue May 14, 2013 8:50 am

Crankshaft wrote:No one has come up with a viable solution to replace Fleury. Just that buying him out is the answer.


Trade Letang (and whatever) to LAK for Voynov and Bernier. :slug:
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Re: Fleury

Postby Idoit40fans on Tue May 14, 2013 8:53 am

Crankshaft wrote:No one has come up with a viable solution to replace Fleury. Just that buying him out is the answer.


As has been said a few times, there are goalies available every offseason. If you don't consider Fleury's athleticism an asset and want to go with someone else, then he's replaceable every year.
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Re: Fleury

Postby Rocco on Tue May 14, 2013 9:01 am

Scott wrote:
Rocco wrote:
The problem is finding someone better than him for the regular season. At some point the Pens need to look for his successor. I imagine Shero thought he could wait to do that for a few more years but he may have to speed up the timetable.


Why? Isn't it possible to run with Fleury for the regular season and possibly have him platoon the playoffs with another goalie.

It wouldn't be the first time a professional team did something out of the ordinary. Chris Osgood in reverse.


Vancouver's been trying that the last 2 years and it hasn't worked. While there have been teams that have had to make goalie changes in the postseason and won, no one in recent memory has had a true platoon and won a Cup. Detroit switched to Osgood in 2008 and never looked back. Anaheim had to use Bryzgalov when Giguere missed time. The 1991 Pens had to play Pietrangelo when Barrasso got hurt. Other than that you have teams basically riding one goalie. While it may be possible to do what you are saying, no one has actually done it before. The problem with a platoon is there's always the chance you'll guess wrong.
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Re: Fleury

Postby sil on Tue May 14, 2013 9:09 am

In reality...at worst MAF and Vokoun are 1A and 1B starters next year. What's wrong with that?
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Re: Fleury

Postby DontToewsMeBro on Tue May 14, 2013 9:17 am

I would rather be the 4th seed and not have to worry about our goalie blowing up in the playoffs every year than be the 1st seed with Fleury in net coe April. Sacrificing a few regular season wins should not be a huge problem for this team. However, I don't think even that is necessary. If Vokoun and Fleury had switched roles this season, I doubt our record would look much different.
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Re: Fleury

Postby sil on Tue May 14, 2013 9:35 am

DontToewsMeBro wrote:I would rather be the 4th seed and not have to worry about our goalie blowing up in the playoffs every year than be the 1st seed with Fleury in net coe April. Sacrificing a few regular season wins should not be a huge problem for this team. However, I don't think even that is necessary. If Vokoun and Fleury had switched roles this season, I doubt our record would look much different.


The current playoff makeup will not be the same again anytime soon.

We play divisional foes first starting next year.
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Re: Fleury

Postby Idoit40fans on Tue May 14, 2013 9:37 am

sil wrote:
DontToewsMeBro wrote:I would rather be the 4th seed and not have to worry about our goalie blowing up in the playoffs every year than be the 1st seed with Fleury in net coe April. Sacrificing a few regular season wins should not be a huge problem for this team. However, I don't think even that is necessary. If Vokoun and Fleury had switched roles this season, I doubt our record would look much different.


The current playoff makeup will not be the same again anytime soon.

We play divisional foes first starting next year.


So you're saying they won't run into the Isles in the first round again?
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Re: Fleury

Postby sil on Tue May 14, 2013 10:32 am

Idoit40fans wrote:
sil wrote:
DontToewsMeBro wrote:I would rather be the 4th seed and not have to worry about our goalie blowing up in the playoffs every year than be the 1st seed with Fleury in net coe April. Sacrificing a few regular season wins should not be a huge problem for this team. However, I don't think even that is necessary. If Vokoun and Fleury had switched roles this season, I doubt our record would look much different.


The current playoff makeup will not be the same again anytime soon.

We play divisional foes first starting next year.


So you're saying they won't run into the Isles in the first round again?


No no...but hoping to drop to the "4th seed," I believe, would put the pens at the very bottom of the bracket for the first two rounds of the playoffs. Isn't that the makeup, or am I mistaken?

Divisional Playoffs to determine champion. Then the 4 divisional champs are re-seeded and have a two round playoff to win the cup.
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Re: Fleury

Postby slappybrown on Tue May 14, 2013 10:46 am

No, that's incorrect. The two Eastern Conference division winners play each other in the Eastern Conference finals. There can be no East-West matchup prior to the Stanley Cup Finals.
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Re: Fleury

Postby tfrizz on Tue May 14, 2013 10:57 am

slappybrown wrote:No, that's incorrect. The two Eastern Conference division winners play each other in the Eastern Conference finals. There can be no East-West matchup prior to the Stanley Cup Finals.


:thumb:

It's similar to how it is now, except that the first two rounds will be divisional.

Round 1 = Divisional Semi-Finals (1 vs Wildcard, 2 vs 3)
Round 2 = Divisional Finals
Round 3 = Conference Finals
Round 4 = Stanley Cup Finals


The wildcard teams are the two team with the most points who didn't otherwise make the playoffs. Not sure how they determine which bracket they go into, though.
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Re: Fleury

Postby Admin on Tue May 14, 2013 11:10 am

Vokoun starting Game 1.
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Re: Fleury

Postby pfim on Tue May 14, 2013 11:20 am

Has to be, then if Vokoun fails, the Prodigal Son returns.
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Re: Fleury

Postby tfrizz on Tue May 14, 2013 11:21 am

pfim wrote:Has to be, then if Vokoun fails, the Prodigal Son returns.


I wonder how much of a leash Vokoun's got...
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Re: Fleury

Postby slappybrown on Tue May 14, 2013 11:37 am

Not much at all is my guess. I could see a 2-1 loss with him playing well still resulting in a switch.
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Re: Fleury

Postby AlexPKeaton on Tue May 14, 2013 11:38 am

DB values his job apparently.
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Re: Fleury

Postby pfim on Tue May 14, 2013 11:38 am

tfrizz wrote:
pfim wrote:Has to be, then if Vokoun fails, the Prodigal Son returns.


I wonder how much of a leash Vokoun's got...


Probably less than 5 games. Such is life as the backup.
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Re: Fleury

Postby DropEmJayBird on Tue May 14, 2013 11:47 am

Vokoun starting makes sense in all areas.

In terms of actual hockey coaching - you don't change when you've won two games. You save changes for the post loss time period. Even if Vokoun is a seive in practice and is constantly getting beat by the a talented penguins offense - the games are what counts.

In terms of LGP fandom - when Vokoun loses due to a perceived bad goal as judged by the knee jerk LGP game thread - Fleury will be the fix as opposed to a scenario of Fleury starting game 1 - and perhaps playing well and winning a few games, but being blamed in 23 seperate threads about his buyout for that overtime loss as a puck deflects of Letang and Orpik in front of the net, off Fleury's shoulder, off Chris Neil's skate and into the net.

This move both maximizes Vokoun's effort, Fluery's eventual return, and minimizes the amount of stupidity that would eventually flow out through the penguin fan base.
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Re: Fleury

Postby Idoit40fans on Tue May 14, 2013 11:47 am

tfrizz wrote:
pfim wrote:Has to be, then if Vokoun fails, the Prodigal Son returns.


I wonder how much of a leash Vokoun's got...


I'm guessing not 3 games.
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