ZIP IT. ZZZZZZZZZZZ-IPPPP IT.

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Re: ZIP IT. ZZZZZZZZZZZ-IPPPP IT.

Postby Sarcastic on Tue May 07, 2013 2:38 pm

Froggy wrote:
nexguy66 wrote:I don't think the skate ever makes contact(you always see white space between them.) Nor the leg below the knee. If anything Sid's skate twist to to the right coincides with being pulled by the Islander's arm(penalty). I do not see a slew foot or any involvement with the leg. Tough call even at 4 frames per sec.

Image

i don't think his blade is kicked, but more on the back of his leg. not a slew foot really... if you look, sid is leaning pretty hard on strait, and all of his weight is on that back foot. his other foot is pretty much off the ice for the most of that.


I'm still not sure if that was a penalty or not. It looked like Sid was leaning on him and eventually slid off and fell. I don't want to say 'on purpose' because it's possible Strait yanked him from behind, but I don't see a yanking motion. Seems like Sid stopped skating on his own and 'sat down'. Unless a holding penalty is for simply putting both hands on a player, in which case it was the correct call. I don't know. I don't want to argue and it doesn't matter now anyway. I'll go with the popular opinion. :)

Holding: http://www.nhl.com/ice/page.htm?id=26346

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Re: ZIP IT. ZZZZZZZZZZZ-IPPPP IT.

Postby Penspal on Tue May 07, 2013 2:46 pm

The following quote from Strait sort of leads me to believe he had little issue with the call.

""[More frustrated] with myself on that one," Strait said. "I just got a little overaggressive on him. I lost body position along the boards, and you can't lose body position against a guy like that."

Taken from http://www.newsday.com/sports/hockey/islanders/penalties-defending-sidney-crosby-frustrate-islanders-1.5203707
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Re: ZIP IT. ZZZZZZZZZZZ-IPPPP IT.

Postby ScottishPenguin on Tue May 07, 2013 2:48 pm

Froggy wrote:I hate the notion of "just letting them play". It just gives an advantage to the team that cheats more


It's unfortunate that this point of view isn't expressed more frequently, ideally by people in a position to do something about it.
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Re: ZIP IT. ZZZZZZZZZZZ-IPPPP IT.

Postby since1970 on Tue May 07, 2013 2:58 pm

nexguy66 wrote:I don't think the skate ever makes contact(you always see white space between them.) Nor the leg below the knee. If anything Sid's skate twist to to the right coincides with being pulled by the Islander's arm(penalty). I do not see a slew foot or any involvement with the leg. Tough call even at 4 frames per sec.

Image


I always thought it a thigh into Sid's backside and the pulling motion along with the way Sid was leaning that caused him to go down. The thigh kind of pushes him slightly, but just enough to throw off his balance......
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Re: ZIP IT. ZZZZZZZZZZZ-IPPPP IT.

Postby Penspal on Tue May 07, 2013 2:58 pm

ScottishPenguin wrote:
Froggy wrote:I hate the notion of "just letting them play". It just gives an advantage to the team that cheats more


It's unfortunate that this point of view isn't expressed more frequently, ideally by people in a position to do something about it.


Playoff hockey is so much better than regular season, and a HUGE part of that is the increased intensity and the hitting. To hit people traveling at those speeds mean that sometimes you accidentally cross the line. In the playoffs they recognize and allow it, whereas it is NOT POSSIBLE to do that for 82 games in the regular season. No one would survive.

Somewhere in between "let them play" and enforce the rules is where the gold is. Some games we get it, some we don't.
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Re: ZIP IT. ZZZZZZZZZZZ-IPPPP IT.

Postby MRandall25 on Tue May 07, 2013 3:03 pm

since1970 wrote:
nexguy66 wrote:I don't think the skate ever makes contact(you always see white space between them.) Nor the leg below the knee. If anything Sid's skate twist to to the right coincides with being pulled by the Islander's arm(penalty). I do not see a slew foot or any involvement with the leg. Tough call even at 4 frames per sec.

Image


I always thought it a thigh into Sid's backside and the pulling motion along with the way Sid was leaning that caused him to go down. The thigh kind of pushes him slightly, but just enough to throw off his balance......


It's the thigh plus the hand pulling Crosby. It's a safer and slightly more subtle play because the thigh braces the other guy's fall, and makes it look like he just lost balance a little.
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Re: ZIP IT. ZZZZZZZZZZZ-IPPPP IT.

Postby shoeshine boy on Tue May 07, 2013 3:05 pm

Sarcastic wrote:
I'm still not sure if that was a penalty or not. It looked like Sid was leaning on him and eventually slid off and fell. I don't want to say 'on purpose' because it's possible Strait yanked him from behind, but I don't see a yanking motion. Seems like Sid stopped skating on his own and 'sat down'. Unless a holding penalty is for simply putting both hands on a player, in which case it was the correct call. I don't know. I don't want to argue and it doesn't matter now anyway. I'll go with the popular opinion. :)





whether or not Strait used his legs to push Sid over is irrelevant when we're talking about a holding penalty only when we're discussing whether or not Sid took a dive. it is my belief that Strait using his right leg to push on Sid's thigh is what helped him to come down. Sid was also trying a very sharp power turn right there.
the free hand on the shoulder was what drew the ref's attention. another factor in the call was that Strait stopped skating. every ref I know always says that they are more likely to call a player holding or hooking the minute he stops moving his feet. everything I've read from Strait tells me that he knows he was guilty. good for him for not whining about it.
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Re: ZIP IT. ZZZZZZZZZZZ-IPPPP IT.

Postby ScottishPenguin on Tue May 07, 2013 3:19 pm

Penspal wrote:
ScottishPenguin wrote:
Froggy wrote:I hate the notion of "just letting them play". It just gives an advantage to the team that cheats more


It's unfortunate that this point of view isn't expressed more frequently, ideally by people in a position to do something about it.


Playoff hockey is so much better than regular season, and a HUGE part of that is the increased intensity and the hitting. To hit people traveling at those speeds mean that sometimes you accidentally cross the line. In the playoffs they recognize and allow it, whereas it is NOT POSSIBLE to do that for 82 games in the regular season. No one would survive.

Somewhere in between "let them play" and enforce the rules is where the gold is. Some games we get it, some we don't.


Whether intentional or not, if an infraction occurs and an advantage is gained by the offending team because of it, there has to be some form of penalty (with a small p). In the same way that you're required to be responsible for your stick, you're responsible for your check. Nobody wants an officious game where the hinges get worn off the penalty box door, but the rules matter.

It isn't just hitting in any case, it's everything; holding, hooking, interference, etc. But as you say, there is an optimal line between rigid enforcement and anarchy. My experience has been that when the observation is made that the refs are "letting the teams play", it's usually because they've sunk well below this line and all we have left to do is wait for someone to get injured.
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Re: ZIP IT. ZZZZZZZZZZZ-IPPPP IT.

Postby Stick_Flex on Tue May 07, 2013 6:24 pm

Okposo quote "we've got to try to stay disciplined. Sid and malkin are two of the most skilled players in the world, and we have to be hard on them. If they get a step on us we got to try not to hold...."

Even the players are admitting it was a legit call.
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