Vokoun will be the game changer.

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Re: Vokoun will be the game changer.

Postby sil on Thu May 09, 2013 11:30 am

Tico Rick wrote:Past stats mean nothing - in the playoffs, you go with the hot hand. And unless Vokoun's been holding ice cubes all week, his hand is hotter than Fleury's.


No, probably even if he was.
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Re: Vokoun will be the game changer.

Postby Henry Hank on Thu May 09, 2013 11:33 am

Meloche very well might not be a good coach but I think bringing him up is making more excuses for Fleury. Just like the idea that he was overworked last year is the reason he was bad in the playoffs. Or even that the D in front of him struggling causes him to crack. Eventually, the excuses need to stop and he just needs to perform.
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Re: Vokoun will be the game changer.

Postby tfrizz on Thu May 09, 2013 11:37 am

Henry Hank wrote:Meloche very well might not be a good coach but I think bringing him up is making more excuses for Fleury. Just like the idea that he was overworked last year is the reason he was bad in the playoffs. Or even that the D in front of him struggling causes him to crack. Eventually, the excuses need to stop and he just needs to perform.


That's the thing though. If Fleury has a weak mental game and no fundamentals - which have been the case his entire career - he's never going to perform at the level he should. Those are the two main reasons he's fallen apart in the playoffs - things get rough and he has nothing but speed and reflexes to fall back on. It's not an excuse, it's just calling a spade a spade.
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Re: Vokoun will be the game changer.

Postby columbia on Thu May 09, 2013 11:39 am

Maybe I'm callous, but I don't think that it is a coach's job to address weak mental fundamentals.
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Re: Vokoun will be the game changer.

Postby sil on Thu May 09, 2013 11:41 am

tfrizz wrote:
Henry Hank wrote:Meloche very well might not be a good coach but I think bringing him up is making more excuses for Fleury. Just like the idea that he was overworked last year is the reason he was bad in the playoffs. Or even that the D in front of him struggling causes him to crack. Eventually, the excuses need to stop and he just needs to perform.


That's the thing though. If Fleury has a weak mental game and no fundamentals - which have been the case his entire career - he's never going to perform at the level he should. Those are the two main reasons he's fallen apart in the playoffs - things get rough and he has nothing but speed and reflexes to fall back on. It's not an excuse, it's just calling a spade a spade.


Thank goodness he was able to do it for those two years (2008 and 2009) and help get us a cup in the process...but the dude done broke. :/
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Re: Vokoun will be the game changer.

Postby the riddler on Thu May 09, 2013 11:45 am

After the cup win I thought Fleury would take his game to another level. But it just hasn't happened. He's had middle of the road statistics during the regular season and subpar playoff performances. Yes, wins mean more than stats, but they paid him anticipating he was going to improve even more and be a dominant goalie. At this point if he can't get it done in the playoffs, there are probably cheaper options out there. I hope he gets a chance to redeem himself this playoffs and proves me wrong because I've always been a huge fan of him.
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Re: Vokoun will be the game changer.

Postby slappybrown on Thu May 09, 2013 11:48 am

Wins do not mean more than stats (specifically save%) when it comes to evaluating goalies. Wins are practically meaningless. Bobrovsky won fewer games than Fleury this year. Fleury's win totals are inflated because he plays behind one of the most talented teams in the league.
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Re: Vokoun will be the game changer.

Postby tfrizz on Thu May 09, 2013 11:54 am

sil wrote:
tfrizz wrote:
Henry Hank wrote:Meloche very well might not be a good coach but I think bringing him up is making more excuses for Fleury. Just like the idea that he was overworked last year is the reason he was bad in the playoffs. Or even that the D in front of him struggling causes him to crack. Eventually, the excuses need to stop and he just needs to perform.


That's the thing though. If Fleury has a weak mental game and no fundamentals - which have been the case his entire career - he's never going to perform at the level he should. Those are the two main reasons he's fallen apart in the playoffs - things get rough and he has nothing but speed and reflexes to fall back on. It's not an excuse, it's just calling a spade a spade.


Thank goodness he was able to do it for those two years (2008 and 2009) and help get us a cup in the process...but the dude done broke. :/


I actually give full marks to Ty Conklin for 2008. He was actively coaching Fleury and his weaknesses virtually disappeared - he played the puck very well, and he was extremely sound fundamentally. Fleury was the best goalie in the league over that 3-4 month span, bar none.

But, as has been pointed out, he was nothing special in 2009. Very inconsistent but managed to come up with key saves when needed.
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Re: Vokoun will be the game changer.

Postby the riddler on Thu May 09, 2013 11:56 am

I'm not sure that they're meaningless. I don't think it's possible for anyone to win games in the NHL as a goalie. I'm not going to go as far as to say Fleury's success has been because of the people surrounding him. He's earned a lot of wins and has played well throughout his career. But at this point unless something changes with him, going forward I don't think it makes sense to keep him around if he can't be the number 1 goalie in the playoffs.
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Re: Vokoun will be the game changer.

Postby slappybrown on Thu May 09, 2013 11:59 am

the riddler wrote:I'm not sure that they're meaningless. I don't think it's possible for anyone to win games in the NHL as a goalie. I'm not going to go as far as to say Fleury's success has been because of the people surrounding him. He's earned a lot of wins and has played well throughout his career. But at this point unless something changes with him, going forward I don't think it makes sense to keep him around if he can't be the number 1 goalie in the playoffs.


A goalie could lose 1-0 and stop 31 of 32 shots, but win 5-4 and stop 16 of 20. That's what I mean.
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Re: Vokoun will be the game changer.

Postby iWonTheCup87 on Thu May 09, 2013 12:03 pm

the riddler wrote:After the cup win I thought Fleury would take his game to another level. But it just hasn't happened. He's had middle of the road statistics during the regular season and subpar playoff performances. Yes, wins mean more than stats, but they paid him anticipating he was going to improve even more and be a dominant goalie. At this point if he can't get it done in the playoffs, there are probably cheaper options out there. I hope he gets a chance to redeem himself this playoffs and proves me wrong because I've always been a huge fan of him.


i basically feel the same way. I would love to see him come back from this and play lights out but is TV plays really well i dont know if you can go back to Fleury until TV has a bad game.
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Re: Vokoun will be the game changer.

Postby Beveridge on Thu May 09, 2013 12:38 pm

Unless we win game 5 and 6, I think we'll see Fleury again this series.

If we lose tonight, I think you see him in game 6. If we win tonight but then lose Saturday, we see him in game 7 Sunday.


If we do win tonight and Saturday, then you either start Fleury in game 1 next round or you ride Vokoun.
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Re: Vokoun will be the game changer.

Postby SolidSnake on Thu May 09, 2013 12:52 pm

Goalie coaches are something you never hear much about, regardless of what happens this season maybe it's time for the Pens to get rid of Meloche and look for another goalie coach
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Re: Vokoun will be the game changer.

Postby tfrizz on Thu May 09, 2013 12:54 pm

SolidSnake wrote:Goalie coaches are something you never hear much about, regardless of what happens this season maybe it's time for the Pens to get rid of Meloche and look for another goalie coach


Absolutely. Whether they keep Fleury nor not is irrelevant, I want to see Meloche replaced.
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Re: Vokoun will be the game changer.

Postby tfrizz on Thu May 09, 2013 12:58 pm

Just looked up Vokoun's game log... it's been almost 3 weeks since he last played. Yikes :?
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Re: Vokoun will be the game changer.

Postby slappybrown on Thu May 09, 2013 1:14 pm

tfrizz wrote:Just looked up Vokoun's game log... it's been almost 3 weeks since he last played. Yikes :?

Everything about this situation is yikes. I don't expect more than competence from Vokoun though, and that would be enough. I just hope he can do that after two weeks of watching.
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Re: Vokoun will be the game changer.

Postby MRandall25 on Thu May 09, 2013 1:15 pm

slappybrown wrote:
tfrizz wrote:Just looked up Vokoun's game log... it's been almost 3 weeks since he last played. Yikes :?

Everything about this situation is yikes. I don't expect more than competence from Vokoun though, and that would be enough. I just hope he can do that after two weeks of watching.


At least it means he's fresh and healthy.
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Re: Vokoun will be the game changer.

Postby helmespc on Thu May 09, 2013 1:20 pm

If TV lets in less than 3 soft goals, it'll be an improvement.
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Re: Vokoun will be the game changer.

Postby HockeyDaddy on Thu May 09, 2013 1:20 pm

MRandall25 wrote:
slappybrown wrote:
tfrizz wrote:Just looked up Vokoun's game log... it's been almost 3 weeks since he last played. Yikes :?

Everything about this situation is yikes. I don't expect more than competence from Vokoun though, and that would be enough. I just hope he can do that after two weeks of watching.


At least it means he's fresh and healthy.


Just hope he doesn't get hurt in the warmups, ala Backstrom.
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Re: Vokoun will be the game changer.

Postby tfrizz on Thu May 09, 2013 1:24 pm

HockeyDaddy wrote:
MRandall25 wrote:
slappybrown wrote:
tfrizz wrote:Just looked up Vokoun's game log... it's been almost 3 weeks since he last played. Yikes :?

Everything about this situation is yikes. I don't expect more than competence from Vokoun though, and that would be enough. I just hope he can do that after two weeks of watching.


At least it means he's fresh and healthy.


Just hope he doesn't get hurt in the warmups, ala Backstrom.


Unfortunately, that's always a possibility with older goalies.
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Re: Vokoun will be the game changer.

Postby SolidSnake on Thu May 09, 2013 10:25 pm

:thumb:
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Re: Vokoun will be the game changer.

Postby DocEmrick on Thu May 09, 2013 10:29 pm

VINDICATION
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Re: Vokoun will be the game changer.

Postby SolidSnake on Thu May 09, 2013 10:57 pm

DocEmrick wrote:VINDICATION

:fist:
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Re: Vokoun will be the game changer.

Postby Getting To My Game on Thu May 09, 2013 11:03 pm

I don't think we can credit all of this to Tommy. The Isles leading goal scorer didnt even play tonight.
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Re: Vokoun will be the game changer.

Postby DontToewsMeBro on Thu May 09, 2013 11:18 pm

Getting To My Game wrote:I don't think we can credit all of this to Tommy. The Isles leading goal scorer didnt even play tonight.


Fleury? He was on the bench I think.
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