Vokoun will be the game changer.

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Re: Vokoun will be the game changer.

Postby ExPatriatePen on Sun May 26, 2013 3:50 pm

murphydump55 wrote:
Sarcastic wrote:
murphydump55 wrote:
Headshot77 wrote:It will be interesting to see Vokoun face a team that is actually capable of creating a serious net-front presence.


It's their 4th line that seems to do the most damage in front of the net. Paille, Thornton, and Campbell is a pretty good 4th line! However, we're one of the few teams out there that can actually counter and match up well with our 4th line, whoever that may be.

I do think that Vokoun will be exposed a bit more against the Bruins, but I still think he can succeed.


Well, any goalie would find it difficult to play the Bruins. They're the second best team in the East and have some seriously good offense. I can't expect him to have same stats as he had during past 2 series. I will focus on how he plays and if he's giving the team a chance to win.


By seriously good offense, you mean in the bottom half of all the teams in the East in goals for?

Statistically you're right, but if regular statistics meant anything in the playoffs, we'd have disposed of the Isles in four games.
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Re: Vokoun will be the game changer.

Postby Sarcastic on Sun May 26, 2013 7:21 pm

I don't even know how they ranked in offense, but I do know they have a dangerous set of forwards who can score goals.
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Re: Vokoun will be the game changer.

Postby Tim Thomasen on Mon May 27, 2013 1:30 am

Sarcastic wrote:I don't even know how they ranked in offense, but I do know they have a dangerous set of forwards who can score goals.


Yeah but so do we. This Penguins team can stand toe to toe with the Bruins and beat them in seven. We have a set of forwards that can just explode when it comes to goals, a good defensive unit and a goalie who had been playing great right how. So for how good Boston's forwards are, the forwards for the Pens are just as good if not better.

Just putting that out there.
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Re: Vokoun will be the game changer.

Postby dbizzle66 on Mon May 27, 2013 7:31 am

Interesting Vokoun Stat - and I know that stats are sometimes overrated - but this is a pretty large sample size -
for goalies who've faced 10,000+ shots in their career, he's fifth in save percentage.

1. Dominik Hasek (.922)
2. Tim Thomas (.921)
3. Henrik Lundqvist (.920)
4. Roberto Luongo (.919)
5. Tomas Vokoun (.917)
6. Niklas Backstrom (.917)
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Re: Vokoun will be the game changer.

Postby ScottishPenguin on Mon May 27, 2013 10:57 am

dbizzle66 wrote:Interesting Vokoun Stat - and I know that stats are sometimes overrated - but this is a pretty large sample size -
for goalies who've faced 10,000+ shots in their career, he's fifth in save percentage.

1. Dominik Hasek (.922)
2. Tim Thomas (.921)
3. Henrik Lundqvist (.920)
4. Roberto Luongo (.919)
5. Tomas Vokoun (.917)
6. Niklas Backstrom (.917)


It's a large sample size but you're only tracking one variable. To produce a meaningful comparison you need to take into account the era in which those shots were faced and the relative quality of his contemporaries, the quality and nature of the defence in front of the goalie, the quality and nature of the offence he's facing, the design on his mask, the colour of the moon, whether or not he knows the kings of England and quotes the fights historical, and how entertaining his twitter is.

You also have to consider what you're trying to take from this stat. The career-long save percentage might be relevant if you're considering admission to the hall of fame or having an argument on the internet, but it's totally worthless for our purposes. For one thing, none of the other five starting goalies still in the hunt would appear anywhere on your list. Secondly, how Tomas Vokoun played in Nashville or Florida, or even in April has no bearing on our chances of winning the cup. He's currently in 1.85, .941 form with a record of 6-1-0. If stats matter, then these are the stats that matter, but lets not get carried away. He's not a candidate for greatest goalie of all time, he's a very good goalie who has finally been given a realistic opportunity to win a cup and has risen to the occasion.
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Re: Vokoun will be the game changer.

Postby Sarcastic on Mon May 27, 2013 2:03 pm

Tim Thomasen wrote:
Sarcastic wrote:I don't even know how they ranked in offense, but I do know they have a dangerous set of forwards who can score goals.


Yeah but so do we. This Penguins team can stand toe to toe with the Bruins and beat them in seven. We have a set of forwards that can just explode when it comes to goals, a good defensive unit and a goalie who had been playing great right how. So for how good Boston's forwards are, the forwards for the Pens are just as good if not better.

Just putting that out there.


I think we're better. I'm just saying they're a good team and we should be prepared for a hard series.
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Re: Vokoun will be the game changer.

Postby columbia on Wed May 29, 2013 7:21 am

From Sunday:

“He's been really, really good,” defenseman Matt Niskanen said. “He's been that stable force back there that gives us a chance every night. He's making all the big saves right now.”

Vokoun's calming personality, Niskanen said, is almost as important as the big saves.

“That's just kind of the way he is, so calm,” Niskanen said. “Everything about him is calm. He's a good veteran to have in obviously an important division. When you see him and how he handles himself, it just rubs off on everyone.”


I'm also pretty comfortable with seeing him between the pipes.
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Re: Vokoun will be the game changer.

Postby Sarcastic on Wed May 29, 2013 1:15 pm

So when Fleury freaks out so does the rest of the team and then it all goes to hell. Thanks for the explanation, Nisky.

:fist:
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Re: Vokoun will be the game changer.

Postby Getting To My Game on Wed May 29, 2013 1:35 pm

columbia wrote:From Sunday:

“He's been really, really good,” defenseman Matt Niskanen said. “He's been that stable force back there that gives us a chance every night. He's making all the big saves right now.”

Vokoun's calming personality, Niskanen said, is almost as important as the big saves.

“That's just kind of the way he is, so calm,” Niskanen said. “Everything about him is calm. He's a good veteran to have in obviously an important division. When you see him and how he handles himself, it just rubs off on everyone.”


I'm also pretty comfortable with seeing him between the pipes.


Man, that really is a striking indictment on what this team feels about Fleury.
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Re: Vokoun will be the game changer.

Postby Malkamaniac on Wed May 29, 2013 1:59 pm

I think it's fairly obvious the team waits to see when MAF gives up a goal and then how he reacts to it with his play. In the playoffs, I'd imagine those feelings are magnified.
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Re: Vokoun will be the game changer.

Postby headh on Wed May 29, 2013 2:25 pm

dbizzle66 wrote:Interesting Vokoun Stat - and I know that stats are sometimes overrated - but this is a pretty large sample size -
for goalies who've faced 10,000+ shots in their career, he's fifth in save percentage.

1. Dominik Hasek (.922)
2. Tim Thomas (.921)
3. Henrik Lundqvist (.920)
4. Roberto Luongo (.919)
5. Tomas Vokoun (.917)
6. Niklas Backstrom (.917)


Another interesting stat. Have not read entire thread sorry if a duplicate :)

Regular season shutouts
A goaltender achieves a shutout when he does not allow a goal against him, and plays the full game.
Martin Brodeur, 119
Roberto Luongo, 60
Evgeni Nabokov, 52
Tomas Vokoun, 48
Nikolai Khabibulin, 45
Miikka Kiprusoff, 44
Henrik Lundqvist, 43
Marty Turco, 41
Jean-Sebastien Giguere, 36
Jose Theodore, 33
Tim Thomas, 31
Ilya Bryzgalov, 29
Dwayne Roloson, 29
Martin Biron, 28
Ryan Miller, 28
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Re: Vokoun will be the game changer.

Postby Idoit40fans on Wed May 29, 2013 2:31 pm

The only potential knock on Vokoun was that he hadn't done much in the playoffs. I don't think anyone could argue that he wasn't a great goalie or that any of his inept teams inflated his numbers. Dude was a tank for a long time and carried a lot of wins and overtime points for those Florida teams especially that should have been blowouts. Faced huge workloads both in numbers of games and shots faced per game as well.
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Re: Vokoun will be the game changer.

Postby Sarcastic on Wed May 29, 2013 5:42 pm

There is a discussion on Vokoun on hfboards in the Pens' section and I share their sentiment. I don't know why so many people assume Vokoun can't handle being #1. He looks good to me and if we want to look at the stats...

http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/players/1541/career
http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/players/3341/career
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Re: Vokoun will be the game changer.

Postby Fast B on Wed May 29, 2013 6:13 pm

Idoit40fans wrote:The only potential knock on Vokoun was that he hadn't done much in the playoffs. I don't think anyone could argue that he wasn't a great goalie or that any of his inept teams inflated his numbers. Dude was a tank for a long time and carried a lot of wins and overtime points for those Florida teams especially that should have been blowouts. Faced huge workloads both in numbers of games and shots faced per game as well.


To add to your point, the main reason that Vokoun never did much in the playoffs was that he played for lousy teams to begin with. People seem to forget this when discussing his playoff history, which drives me nuts.
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Re: Vokoun will be the game changer.

Postby DontToewsMeBro on Wed May 29, 2013 6:18 pm

Fast B wrote:
Idoit40fans wrote:The only potential knock on Vokoun was that he hadn't done much in the playoffs. I don't think anyone could argue that he wasn't a great goalie or that any of his inept teams inflated his numbers. Dude was a tank for a long time and carried a lot of wins and overtime points for those Florida teams especially that should have been blowouts. Faced huge workloads both in numbers of games and shots faced per game as well.


To add to your point, the main reason that Vokoun never did much in the playoffs was that he played for lousy teams to begin with. People seem to forget this when discussing his playoff history, which drives me nuts.


I think people kind of understood that the reason he had never won a playoff series was because he was either on a.) abysmal Panther teams or b.) offensively inept Predator teams. His consistency has been welcome and he seems to have some influence in the locker room. Good on him.
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Re: Vokoun will be the game changer.

Postby Idoit40fans on Thu May 30, 2013 8:01 am

Sadly, I don't think people understood that.
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Re: Vokoun will be the game changer.

Postby ScottishPenguin on Thu May 30, 2013 10:09 am

DontToewsMeBro wrote:I think people kind of understood that the reason he had never won a playoff series was because he was either on a.) abysmal Panther teams or b.) offensively inept Predator teams. His consistency has been welcome and he seems to have some influence in the locker room. Good on him.


I went and checked; prior to this season, Vokoun's playoff stats were .922, 2.47. That's pretty decent. He's also won Olympic bronze, and gold at the World Championships twice, beating Canada and Russia in the finals...Remind me why this guy isn't good enough win a Stanley Cup?
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Re: Vokoun will be the game changer.

Postby columbia on Thu May 30, 2013 10:14 am

ScottishPenguin wrote:Remind me why this guy isn't good enough win a Stanley Cup?


This is a key point. I'm sure there is someone out there, who will say that the Pens have a better chance with MAF in net.
(I'd like to see that argument, BTW. :pop: )

However, trying to argue that Vokoun isn't good enough to help them win the cup is just silly.
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Re: Vokoun will be the game changer.

Postby ScottishPenguin on Thu May 30, 2013 10:31 am

columbia wrote:This is a key point. I'm sure there is someone out there, who will say that the Pens have a better chance with MAF in net.


I can see that your TV also has a magic button that makes Mike Milbury and Jeremy Roenick shut the **** up.
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Re: Vokoun will be the game changer.

Postby topshelf66 on Thu May 30, 2013 10:52 am

A lot of people seem to be saying that your backup goalie can't win the cup. Imagine if a team like Tampa Bay had picked up Vokoun and made him a starter. If they were entering the ECF, nobody would be saying that Vokoun can't win a cup bucause he should be a backup. They would be talking about what a shrewed pick up he was.

Also, should we win the cup with Vokoun in net, it does not mean that we are getting rid of Fleury. Next season would be an open competition with close to a 60/40 split in net based upon performance. When Vokoun's contract ends, we may not pick it back up and still have a fairly youngs and hopefully more experienced / mature Fleury in net.
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Re: Vokoun will be the game changer.

Postby WDWBurghGooner on Thu May 30, 2013 11:17 am

ScottishPenguin wrote:
columbia wrote:This is a key point. I'm sure there is someone out there, who will say that the Pens have a better chance with MAF in net.


I can see that your TV also has a magic button that makes Mike Milbury and Jeremy Roenick shut the **** up.


Amazing post
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Re: Vokoun will be the game changer.

Postby ScottishPenguin on Thu May 30, 2013 12:08 pm

topshelf66 wrote:A lot of people seem to be saying that your backup goalie can't win the cup.


Antti Niemi?

Also, should we win the cup with Vokoun in net, it does not mean that we are getting rid of Fleury. Next season would be an open competition with close to a 60/40 split in net based upon performance. When Vokoun's contract ends, we may not pick it back up and still have a fairly youngs and hopefully more experienced / mature Fleury in net.


Fleury is 28 now. He's had 8 seasons and 500 games to mature.
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Re: Vokoun will be the game changer.

Postby topshelf66 on Thu May 30, 2013 12:54 pm

Some goalies only have 4 seasons at the age of 28. I don't think giving up on Fleury is the right thing at this time. Clearly an evaluation will have to be made before his next contract comes due. I would not be surprised at all if we are having the same gaoltender debate going into next post-season. Fleury wins some games, has good numbers, but can he be trusted in the playoffs? Hopefully watching 92 will be a learning experience and things get better.

I am a big 29 fan, but when I have visions of us winning the cup this year, 92 is in net.
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Re: Vokoun will be the game changer.

Postby tfrizz on Thu May 30, 2013 3:05 pm

topshelf66 wrote:Some goalies only have 4 seasons at the age of 28. I don't think giving up on Fleury is the right thing at this time. Clearly an evaluation will have to be made before his next contract comes due. I would not be surprised at all if we are having the same gaoltender debate going into next post-season. Fleury wins some games, has good numbers, but can he be trusted in the playoffs? Hopefully watching 92 will be a learning experience and things get better.

I am a big 29 fan, but when I have visions of us winning the cup this year, 92 is in net.


FWIW, Vokoun didn't ascent to the "elite level" until returning from Europe after the lockout at the age of 29. Vokoun's NHL career numbers at the age of 28 were: 98-129-35, 2.55 GAA, .909 sv%, and 12 shutouts - and that was after 6 NHL seasons + 3 AHL/ECHL seasons. Basically... Fleury at age 28 is at virtually the same spot Vokoun was at age 28. Obviously, that doesn't mean Fleury is going to go on to be an elite goalie for the next 10 years... but it goes to show that you really can't give up on a goalie in the 20s, even if it's their late 20s.
Last edited by tfrizz on Thu May 30, 2013 3:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Vokoun will be the game changer.

Postby Crankshaft on Thu May 30, 2013 3:09 pm

I do wish they would invest in a better goalie coach.

Edit: Hard for me to quantify who is good or bad; but different. New perspectives might be nice.
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