Bylsma Hockey

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Re: Bylsma Hockey

Postby tfrizz on Wed May 08, 2013 1:08 pm

MRandall25 wrote:
skullman80 wrote:
MRandall25 wrote:
Rocco wrote:So if we can't blame Bylsma for anything, does that mean we can't credit him for anything and he's just there?


People play the blame game all the time. Problem is, they don't give him credit for anything.

There's a clear difference between a systematic issue and a player decision issue. These turnovers are player decision issues.

But people tend to ignore that because it doesn't fit what they want.

I hope Jesse comes with a post about it, but I'm not holding my breath.


You can't honestly believe there is nothing wrong with his system and his lack of adjustments at this point can you? Its not all his fault but it certainly plays a large role in it.


His "system" wasn't causing turnovers a month ago. How do you explain that?

And if you think he hasn't adjusted at all, I don't know what to tell you.


It didn't in game 1 either, then Capuano made adjustments and Bylsma is too stubborn (or arrogant) to re-adjust. I mean, Capuano told reporter that he knows Bylsma is going to have the Penguins play the same system every game. How much more obvious can it be?
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Re: Bylsma Hockey

Postby IntangibleBeer on Wed May 08, 2013 2:08 pm

tfrizz wrote:It didn't in game 1 either, then Capuano made adjustments and Bylsma is too stubborn (or arrogant) to re-adjust. I mean, Capuano told reporter that he knows Bylsma is going to have the Penguins play the same system every game. How much more obvious can it be?


And as you may recall last year prior to the playoffs, it was the Islanders that showed the league where the Pens system broke down. We needed 2 games against them to avoid playing the Flyers. And the Isles won both. I'm pretty sure the Flyers studied those games in order to beat us.

Despite the fact that Capuono looks like a punk straight out of an 80's B movie, he seems to have enough hockey smarts to deploy his limited weapons at the Pens; weakpoints - Bylsma's system. As another poster pointed out, playing the Bylsma system requires speed. And the fastest team in this series? Well, it ain't the Pens.

Bylsma hockey is not getting the job done. IF and it's a big IF at this point, the series can be saved it's going to take some changes in approach. The Pens have too much talent to squander it on this ridiculous frontal assault. The counterpunchers and especially those with speed like the Islanders are forcing the turnovers and then capitalizing. On the PP, you can see the Pens' talent advantages coming to the fore. I think that's why we're still in this.

Bylsma Hockey: IT'S NOT WORKING. :scared:
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Re: Bylsma Hockey

Postby MRandall25 on Wed May 08, 2013 2:14 pm

http://www.faceoff-factor.com/1pittsbur ... one-game-4

From Jesse, with diagrams.

Bylsma adjusted. The players did not.
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Re: Bylsma Hockey

Postby shmenguin on Wed May 08, 2013 2:31 pm

i'm not sure what the debate is here. bylsma has a system that he sticks to. it doesn't look like he's "adjusting" anything. it's arguable that it's not his fault the players aren't executing tight enough, but he doesn't deserve bonus points for implementing a system that the islanders seem to be able to solve with regularity. malkin's play was a doozy, but most of our turnovers have come along the boards where the islanders are perched and ready to pounce. when this happens enough times, it's not surprising that a guy like malkin will go rogue and start pushing the puck up the middle.
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Re: Bylsma Hockey

Postby offsides on Wed May 08, 2013 2:37 pm

MRandall25 wrote:http://www.faceoff-factor.com/1pittsburgh-penguins/4815/ff-telestrator-round-one-game-4

From Jesse, with diagrams.

Bylsma adjusted. The players did not.


So the players aren't doing what their told. Do we keep HCDB and blow up the team since we can't practice to adjust things?
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Re: Bylsma Hockey

Postby Henry Hank on Wed May 08, 2013 2:39 pm

Mistakes and undisciplined play happen over and over again because there is no accountability. Players coach Bylsma coddles these babies when they clearly need some tough love sometimes. Bad habits have been developing for years and nothing has ever been done to correct them.

It's not like this was stated over and over last year at this time. It's so damn frustrating watching all this crap kill them again.
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Re: Bylsma Hockey

Postby AlexPKeaton on Wed May 08, 2013 2:44 pm

How can the players implement a new breakout strategy when DB holds optional skates between games? If you don't want to overwork the players, have a light practice without pads and just work on breakouts the entire time.
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Re: Bylsma Hockey

Postby IanMoran on Wed May 08, 2013 2:45 pm

MRandall25 wrote:http://www.faceoff-factor.com/1pittsburgh-penguins/4815/ff-telestrator-round-one-game-4

From Jesse, with diagrams.

Bylsma adjusted. The players did not.

Didn't read, but it was really obvious the Pens came in with a much different break out
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Re: Bylsma Hockey

Postby IanMoran on Wed May 08, 2013 2:46 pm

EVERY time they've had Kunitz - Geno - Neal together they've been AMAZING

Kunitz- Sid - Dupuis isn't some magical format... he makes a lot of players great. They put COLBY ARMSTRONG on Sid's line on both of their ROOKIE seasons and Colby had 40 points in 47 games

Dupuis - Sid- Iggy
Kunitz - Geno- Neal

Its so obvious that needs to happen, Iggy on LW isn't working
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Re: Bylsma Hockey

Postby RxBandit66 on Wed May 08, 2013 2:56 pm

Henry Hank wrote:Mistakes and undisciplined play happen over and over again because there is no accountability. Players coach Bylsma coddles these babies when they clearly need some tough love sometimes. Bad habits have been developing for years and nothing has ever been done to correct them.

It's not like this was stated over and over last year at this time. It's so damn frustrating watching all this crap kill them again.


HH, you have posted this before, and I agree with this every time. One year ago, we were having the same discussion. The focus is on Bylsma because he's the head coach, but the assistants could have easily been replaced after the Philly loss and they were all brought back.

This, in my mind, was a validation of all their failures. How could anybody in the front office have watched that series last spring and not make a single change to that staff?
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Re: Bylsma Hockey

Postby shmenguin on Wed May 08, 2013 2:59 pm

RxBandit66 wrote:This, in my mind, was a validation of all their failures. How could anybody in the front office have watched that series last spring and not make a single change to that staff?


i dunno...i thought we made a lot of progress in the offseason. i mean, after our PK failed at a historic level in the playoffs, we got rid of our 2 best penalty killers and replaced them with tanner glass.
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Re: Bylsma Hockey

Postby MRandall25 on Wed May 08, 2013 3:03 pm

Our PK is the least of our problems.

They also say "Your goalie is your best penalty killer"
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Re: Bylsma Hockey

Postby RxBandit66 on Wed May 08, 2013 3:16 pm

Guinness wrote:
MRandall25 wrote:
skullman80 wrote:You defend bylsma no matter what I'll give you that.


Because Bylsma isn't the one telling Kris Letang and Evgeni Malkin to make idiotic decisions with the puck.


He is the one apparently not holding them accountable, however.


Well, I think MT went a bit overboard with getting in players' faces and blowing up in press conferences. But the job of a coach is to keep players focused. The team went to the finals and won a Cup with Letang and Geno before, so they should in theory be experienced playoff veterans that don't repeat mistakes like this. At some point, you have to either trade those two players or remove the head coach, because this first round nonsense can't happen every year.
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Re: Bylsma Hockey

Postby Scott on Wed May 08, 2013 4:09 pm

AlexPKeaton wrote:
67pens wrote:This isn't a drive by post, even though my post count would indicate otherwise - but I do have an honest question: why, for the last several years, do we keep hearing "this is a bad match up for the Pens"? Philly, Tampa, now its the Isles. I've been a fan of the sport for 40 years or so, and I don't ever remember hearing the "bad match up" excuse for any other team as frequently as I have heard it for the post Cup Pens. Anyone have any insight?


I didn't hear bad match up before this series from anyone. I just heard that there is no way the Pens would lose as long as Fleury played at least average. That is turning out to be true lol.


Maybe I didn't post it on here but I certainly said it enough. I was rooting for the Senators to lose that last day with vigor because this was the one team I wanted no business in playing.
Do you recall that one game several months ago that the Islanders came in to Pittsburgh and made the Pens look silly? The Pens had everyone available (before Iginla and Morrow murray) and they got obliterated. It wasn't one of those games where Fluery was off or freakish bounces could be blamed. No. They got whipped. Badly. The Pens need speed to implement Bylsma hockey. They have speed and are faster than most teams. The Isle are a team the Pens are slower than and not by a little bit. This has Playoff upset written all over it. Terrible matchup. It shouldn't be if Bylsma could adjust. But nope!
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Re: Bylsma Hockey

Postby Jesse on Wed May 08, 2013 4:18 pm

AlexPKeaton wrote:How can the players implement a new breakout strategy when DB holds optional skates between games? If you don't want to overwork the players, have a light practice without pads and just work on breakouts the entire time.


The breakout changed yesterday. These are professionals. They can look at it on a whiteboard and adjust on the fly.

That's not what today was about. Today was about video. And I have a feeling Bylsma went into the room today and put everyone on blast. Especially Malkin. When you're turning the puck over like this and forcing plays that aren't there, it's time to sit back, watch the video, and hold people accountable.

Put someone in front of their teammates that fight for them night after night and show video of Malkin bypassing an easy chip play off the wall en lieu of forcing a puck up the middle to Neal and turning it over. That sends a message louder than screaming at everyone will.
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Re: Bylsma Hockey

Postby Steve on Wed May 08, 2013 4:21 pm

MRandall25 wrote:http://www.faceoff-factor.com/1pittsburgh-penguins/4815/ff-telestrator-round-one-game-4

From Jesse, with diagrams.

Bylsma adjusted. The players did not.


This is great stuff. I'm trying to learn more about strategy, which is a little difficult via watching on TV since we can't see all of the skaters on the ice at the same time - but these pics break it down nicely.
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Re: Bylsma Hockey

Postby farnham16 on Wed May 08, 2013 4:21 pm

Bylsma tried to make adjustments, they just weren't big enough to make any difference.

No clue how anyone can attempt to defend Bylsma right now after seeing his team implode again in the playoffs and play with zero composure.

There is no defense for anyone on this team right now, especially Bylsma.
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Re: Bylsma Hockey

Postby Scott on Wed May 08, 2013 4:59 pm

MRandall25 wrote:People play the blame game all the time. Problem is, they don't give him credit for anything.

There's a clear difference between a systematic issue and a player decision issue. These turnovers are player decision issues.

But people tend to ignore that because it doesn't fit what they want.

I hope Jesse comes with a post about it, but I'm not holding my breath.


When people play blame the players game its because they have no clue how the world of sports work or never coached anything beyond tee-ball baseball or ...I could go on.

A big question for you. That is Bylsma's product on the ice. Correct? Let's break this down ever further here. He is a manager. He manages these employees( players) to implement good service (performance). This all relates into the customer being satisfied (wins). No different than a manager at a fancy restaurant with a team of employees. Sure he can go around and fire people but he needs to make it all work with the people he has. If the service drops he is responsible because that is his product as a whole.

Anyone and I mean anyone can tell a team to do something and if there is a break down throw the hands up in the air and say it is the players fault.

A good coach adjusts, adapts, and MOST importantly has a way of reaching each and every player. This isn't just x and o's with a sharpie on a board along the bench during the game. It is mental warfare within the bench to find a way to reach those players so they don't keep making ill advised plays. I've said about this for years with Bylsma he has no idea how to manage the modern day athlete. It is hard to do. Long gone are the days of an athlete being beneath the coach. Sadly this goes all the way down to little league baseball and up from there. High school sports? Yeah same thing. You dare not challenge a kid to get him to improve. If you do you also better watch how you do it. It is 2013 folks. The days we are living in the players rule the universe. :thumbdown:
There are still some people out there who don't care and will coach to win.
Michael Therrien was too abrasive. The players hated the trap and they shut him out. Bylsma comes in and the players love him and his system. But he is no longer living off the newness of his system and the novelty of energy the players had.

There are ways to reach the Prima donna's on this team without having them shut down. He is terrified to do so. He witnessed what the team did to Michael Therrien and he refuses to go anywhere close to that in fear of losing his job. The ironic part is if he doesn't implement a little bit of Michael Therrien, so to speak, he is going to lose it.
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Re: Bylsma Hockey

Postby offsides on Wed May 08, 2013 5:01 pm

Jesse wrote:
AlexPKeaton wrote:How can the players implement a new breakout strategy when DB holds optional skates between games? If you don't want to overwork the players, have a light practice without pads and just work on breakouts the entire time.


The breakout changed yesterday. These are professionals. They can look at it on a whiteboard and adjust on the fly.

That's not what today was about. Today was about video. And I have a feeling Bylsma went into the room today and put everyone on blast. Especially Malkin. When you're turning the puck over like this and forcing plays that aren't there, it's time to sit back, watch the video, and hold people accountable.

Put someone in front of their teammates that fight for them night after night and show video of Malkin bypassing an easy chip play off the wall en lieu of forcing a puck up the middle to Neal and turning it over. That sends a message louder than screaming at everyone will.


Thanks Jesse and good post as usual. I sure hope you're speculation is correct and the boys respond to whatever DB is doing. I haven't seen anything in the last three games that proves these guys can adjust to anything on the fly. Like I said, I hope you are right and the videos send them a message that they will respond to, because not much else is working.
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Re: Bylsma Hockey

Postby MRandall25 on Wed May 08, 2013 5:09 pm

Scott wrote:blah blah blah


I stopped reading your post after you accused me of having no clue how sports work.

Stay classy.
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Re: Bylsma Hockey

Postby Scott on Wed May 08, 2013 5:12 pm

MRandall25 wrote:
Scott wrote:blah blah blah


I stopped reading your post after you accused me of having no clue how sports work.

Stay classy.

MRandall I apologize. It really wasn't meant to be insulting. Bad choice of words there.
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Re: Bylsma Hockey

Postby sniper on Wed May 08, 2013 7:48 pm

The Penguins biggest problem is they can't get out of their zone and through the neutral zone clean. Basically, the Islanders know the Pens breakout and are taking it away. Bylsma and the Penguins however refuse to change their breakout and instead seem to think it's just an execution problem. Well, yeah they probably could execute better, but when the other team knows what you are going to do it makes for a very small margin of error. This results in a ton more turnovers than occurred during the regular season and as a result a major zone time slant to the Islanders side of things.

I think if the Penguins would simply come up with a new breakout, preferably several options to at least keep the Islanders guessing, they would be able to get out of their zone much easier and that alone would solve a ton of their problems. Hopefully starting Vokoun instead of Fleury solves the other big one, which is simply awful goals being given up that aren't earned.

The fact that the Penguins only watched video and didn't practice this morning comes as a bad sign to me. As did their lack of practice before game 4. Seems to me this makes it more likely Bylsma is still trying to show the Penguins that they simply aren't executing the breakout correctly instead of actually changing it. If they were changing the breakout, I'd think they would actually have to practice it...

If they continue to try follow the it's not broken, we just need to execute better philosophy they probably don't win this series and as a result Bylsma will be gone. They change it and I think they start getting a lot more offensive zone time and as a result win this games fairly easily.
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Re: Bylsma Hockey

Postby IanMoran on Wed May 08, 2013 7:50 pm

sniper wrote:The Penguins biggest problem is they can't get out of their zone and through the neutral zone clean. Basically, the Islanders know the Pens breakout and are taking it away. Bylsma and the Penguins however refuse to change their breakout and instead seem to think it's just an execution problem. Well, yeah they probably could execute better, but when the other team knows what you are going to do it makes for a very small margin of error. This results in a ton more turnovers than occurred during the regular season and as a result a major zone time slant to the Islanders side of things.

I think if the Penguins would simply come up with a new breakout, preferably several options to at least keep the Islanders guessing, they would be able to get out of their zone much easier and that alone would solve a ton of their problems. Hopefully starting Vokoun instead of Fleury solves the other big one, which is simply awful goals being given up that aren't earned.

The fact that the Penguins only watched video and didn't practice this morning comes as a bad sign to me. As did their lack of practice before game 4. Seems to me this makes it more likely Bylsma is still trying to show the Penguins that they simply aren't executing the breakout correctly instead of actually changing it. If they were changing the breakout, I'd think they would actually have to practice it...

If they continue to try follow the it's not broken, we just need to execute better philosophy they probably don't win this series and as a result Bylsma will be gone. They change it and I think they start getting a lot more offensive zone time and as a result win this games fairly easily.

Pens had a completely different breakout in game 4
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Re: Bylsma Hockey

Postby Fire0nice228 on Wed May 08, 2013 8:07 pm

I think it would go a long, long way if they utilized the stretch pass, that new play, and good ole fashion defensemen skating the puck (well, those that dont handle it like a grenade) to keep the Isles guessing. Plan those 3 and take what is given to you from there. Isles on the boards? Okay, skate the puck. Isles funneled to the middle, stretch pass up the wall. Total cluster F? Skate it.
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Re: Bylsma Hockey

Postby Digitalgypsy66 on Wed May 08, 2013 8:25 pm

Who wants to see the Pens run a 1-2-2 trap all game tomorrow?

<-----This guy.
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