Vokoun to Start

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Re: Vokoun to Start

Postby IanMoran on Wed May 08, 2013 2:26 pm

MarioLives wrote:, but this has to reflect on Crosby as a captain as well.
He needs to step it up from a leadership
Standpoint.

Crosby's fine
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Re: Vokoun to Start

Postby Puck Drama on Wed May 08, 2013 2:27 pm

jimjom wrote:I endorse the decision, but this is something that could go very well or backfire horribly. If it goes well, ride TV until the wheels fall off and put MAF back in. If it goes wrong, TV lays an egg, MAF starts in an elimination game on the road with shaky confidence and self esteem, and it's Isles in 6.

I think the fatherhood issue has some bearing on his play. I also believe that the fans are in his head. I think the tendency to do poorly in big games is the main issue and I am not sure how that gets fixed no matter the outcome of this series.


So Fleury is a mental case. Maybe he should take up a new profession. I can't imagine Bylsma having to walk on eggs in order to not crush MAF's fragile ego.
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Re: Vokoun to Start

Postby Shyster on Wed May 08, 2013 2:27 pm

burghsportsguys wrote:
Shyster wrote:There are some hockey games where a goaltender gets pulled and replaced not because that goalie is himself playing all that badly, but because the team is playing bad in front of him and the coach is trying to send a message to the rest of them. I view this as an equivalent situation. I certainly hope the message gets through.

This is more like the situation where both the goalie AND the team are playing awful, but you can't bench the whole team.

Agreed. Fleury isn't playing that well either, but you can't really bench many other players.
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Re: Vokoun to Start

Postby thepittman on Wed May 08, 2013 2:28 pm

Puck Drama wrote:
jimjom wrote:I endorse the decision, but this is something that could go very well or backfire horribly. If it goes well, ride TV until the wheels fall off and put MAF back in. If it goes wrong, TV lays an egg, MAF starts in an elimination game on the road with shaky confidence and self esteem, and it's Isles in 6.

I think the fatherhood issue has some bearing on his play. I also believe that the fans are in his head. I think the tendency to do poorly in big games is the main issue and I am not sure how that gets fixed no matter the outcome of this series.


So Fleury is a mental case. Maybe he should take up a new profession. I can't imagine Bylsma having to walk on eggs in order to not crush MAF's fragile ego.


Is that you Rocco?
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Re: Vokoun to Start

Postby tfrizz on Wed May 08, 2013 2:28 pm

IanMoran wrote:
tfrizz wrote:
murphydump55 wrote:It's been said before:

It's not about the saves you make, but the saves you don't make.

Fleury saps any momentum out of this team with his softies that he routinely allows game after game. TV has to start and as I predicted in another thread, we will win the next two games because of this.


And if Vokoun doesn't win the next two games? So many people assume that going from Fleury to Vokoun is going to magically turn to wins, but it's still entire possible that the team continues to play like garbage and/or Vokoun also plays poorly.

I don't think anyone can criticize the move to Vokoun no matter how it turns out. At this point DB's job is on the line... I think his best bet is with Vokoun


I fully agree with the decision to start Vokoun, I'm just not as confident that it'll be some magical solution as others are.
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Re: Vokoun to Start

Postby jimjom on Wed May 08, 2013 2:29 pm

I don't know if he's a mental case, but he makes mental mistakes an awful lot. Agree?
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Re: Vokoun to Start

Postby America on Wed May 08, 2013 2:29 pm

The team is scoring 4 and 5 goals a night. They should win every game in the playoffs scoring that much. The team overall really hasn't been the issue, it's goaltending and kind of defensive really.
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Re: Vokoun to Start

Postby thehockeyguru on Wed May 08, 2013 2:30 pm

I actually find it comical that people are suggesting that after Vokoun rights the ship that playing Fleury again is an option. I think people need to come to the realitization that Fleury might not be on this team next season.
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Re: Vokoun to Start

Postby Kraftster on Wed May 08, 2013 2:30 pm

Rocco wrote:
tfrizz wrote:
murphydump55 wrote:It's been said before:

It's not about the saves you make, but the saves you don't make.

Fleury saps any momentum out of this team with his softies that he routinely allows game after game. TV has to start and as I predicted in another thread, we will win the next two games because of this.


And if Vokoun doesn't win the next two games? So many people assume that going from Fleury to Vokoun is going to magically turn to wins, but it's still entire possible that the team continues to play like garbage and/or Vokoun also plays poorly.


It's the devil you know or the devil you don't know. At this point MAF looks toast. You can't preach accountability and leave him in there.


And starting Vokoun over MAF in G5 while making no other changes or taking no other action in game, if necessary, is but a mere disingenuous wave at accountability.
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Re: Vokoun to Start

Postby Defence21 on Wed May 08, 2013 2:32 pm

For those saying this decision could impact Bylsma's future, you might be right. But leaving Fleury in is just as big a risk. I think it's entirely possible Shero was involved in this decision, maybe even forcing Bylsma to make the change. I say this for two reasons. 1) Bylsma has been very guarded with his lineup to date, but announced a goaltending change more than 24 hours in advance, and 2) Shero spent big bucks (in backup goalie terms) to land Vokoun, noting at the time that he was here to spell Fleury when needed. Such a spell is needed right now -- and should have happened at the end of period two, when Fleury gave up the momentum sucking, horrific goal. Make the change then, and the Pens might not be in such a dangerous position now, and might also be able to turn back to Fleury for Game 5.
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Re: Vokoun to Start

Postby Kraftster on Wed May 08, 2013 2:33 pm

America wrote:The team is scoring 4 and 5 goals a night. They should win every game in the playoffs scoring that much. The team overall really hasn't been the issue, it's goaltending and kind of defensive really.


The team is getting absolutely dominated 5 on 5 and being bailed out (if you can even call it that) by their PP. Are you watching the games?
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Re: Vokoun to Start

Postby 66 Fighters of Foo on Wed May 08, 2013 2:34 pm

If I recall correctly, the Hurricanes were successful with juggling 2 goalies during their 1st trip to the Cup Finals. Irbe was the original starter, but had a couple bad games and then got swapped for Weekes. When Weekes began to get shaky, it was back to Irbe.

It's not ideal, but that's an option the Penguins have with MAF and Vokoun. No reason it can't be successful.
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Re: Vokoun to Start

Postby brwi on Wed May 08, 2013 2:34 pm

Glad to see this move. It may not work out well either, but at least DB is doing something here to try and plug a massively gaping hole in net.

I have a feeling we also see TK next game and likely Vitale. The team needs a spark just beyond the net. Pounding into their thick heads that skill alone won't be enough and to minimize killer turnovers would be nice also.

Time for every Penguin to look themselves in the mirror and ignore a 2-2 series tie and focus instead on why after a 5-0 demolition it has come to this.
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Re: Vokoun to Start

Postby Rocco on Wed May 08, 2013 2:37 pm

Kraftster wrote:
Rocco wrote:
tfrizz wrote:
murphydump55 wrote:It's been said before:

It's not about the saves you make, but the saves you don't make.

Fleury saps any momentum out of this team with his softies that he routinely allows game after game. TV has to start and as I predicted in another thread, we will win the next two games because of this.


And if Vokoun doesn't win the next two games? So many people assume that going from Fleury to Vokoun is going to magically turn to wins, but it's still entire possible that the team continues to play like garbage and/or Vokoun also plays poorly.


It's the devil you know or the devil you don't know. At this point MAF looks toast. You can't preach accountability and leave him in there.


And starting Vokoun over MAF in G5 while making no other changes or taking no other action in game, if necessary, is but a mere disingenuous wave at accountability.


Sure, but there are only so many guys you can scratch or bench. Since Game 1 MAF has been awful, and this has been a routine playoff occurrence for him.
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Re: Vokoun to Start

Postby Rocco on Wed May 08, 2013 2:37 pm

thepittman wrote:
Puck Drama wrote:
jimjom wrote:I endorse the decision, but this is something that could go very well or backfire horribly. If it goes well, ride TV until the wheels fall off and put MAF back in. If it goes wrong, TV lays an egg, MAF starts in an elimination game on the road with shaky confidence and self esteem, and it's Isles in 6.

I think the fatherhood issue has some bearing on his play. I also believe that the fans are in his head. I think the tendency to do poorly in big games is the main issue and I am not sure how that gets fixed no matter the outcome of this series.


So Fleury is a mental case. Maybe he should take up a new profession. I can't imagine Bylsma having to walk on eggs in order to not crush MAF's fragile ego.


Is that you Rocco?


I'm offended.
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Re: Vokoun to Start

Postby IanMoran on Wed May 08, 2013 2:39 pm

thepittman wrote:
Puck Drama wrote:
jimjom wrote:I endorse the decision, but this is something that could go very well or backfire horribly. If it goes well, ride TV until the wheels fall off and put MAF back in. If it goes wrong, TV lays an egg, MAF starts in an elimination game on the road with shaky confidence and self esteem, and it's Isles in 6.

I think the fatherhood issue has some bearing on his play. I also believe that the fans are in his head. I think the tendency to do poorly in big games is the main issue and I am not sure how that gets fixed no matter the outcome of this series.


So Fleury is a mental case. Maybe he should take up a new profession. I can't imagine Bylsma having to walk on eggs in order to not crush MAF's fragile ego.


Is that you Rocco?

I've thought this before
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Re: Vokoun to Start

Postby penny lane on Wed May 08, 2013 2:40 pm

I'll be watching how the forwards and D respond. They tend to be on good defensive play with the back up.

from 2001- hedberg-flower- vokoun play off goalies.
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Re: Vokoun to Start

Postby Malkamaniac on Wed May 08, 2013 2:41 pm

Good call. I'd rather use a guy they went after for this specific reason than not use him. They called MAF's bluff with him playing poorly.
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Re: Vokoun to Start

Postby DropEmJayBird on Wed May 08, 2013 2:45 pm

Vokoun better pray the team plays better in front of him. Given his lack of left-right speed, and the cane he needs to get back up after going down - he needs a tight ship in front of him as opposed to the free wheeling crashing islanders using penguins in front of the net as potential pinball options to score goals off of.
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Re: Vokoun to Start

Postby Rocco on Wed May 08, 2013 2:46 pm

IanMoran wrote:
thepittman wrote:
Puck Drama wrote:
jimjom wrote:I endorse the decision, but this is something that could go very well or backfire horribly. If it goes well, ride TV until the wheels fall off and put MAF back in. If it goes wrong, TV lays an egg, MAF starts in an elimination game on the road with shaky confidence and self esteem, and it's Isles in 6.

I think the fatherhood issue has some bearing on his play. I also believe that the fans are in his head. I think the tendency to do poorly in big games is the main issue and I am not sure how that gets fixed no matter the outcome of this series.


So Fleury is a mental case. Maybe he should take up a new profession. I can't imagine Bylsma having to walk on eggs in order to not crush MAF's fragile ego.


Is that you Rocco?

I've thought this before


I'm too vain to associate any of my posts with anyone else.
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Re: Vokoun to Start

Postby MarioLives on Wed May 08, 2013 2:47 pm

So just out of curiosity, what happens if this team plays better in front of Vokoun and they dominate? What does that say about the team? Why can't they do that when MAF is in there? It may be a moot point, we will see.
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Re: Vokoun to Start

Postby thepittman on Wed May 08, 2013 2:48 pm

DropEmJayBird wrote:Vokoun better pray the team plays better in front of him. Given his lack of left-right speed, and the cane he needs to get back up after going down - he needs a tight ship in front of him as opposed to the free wheeling crashing islanders using penguins in front of the net as potential pinball options to score goals off of.


He is a different style goalie than fleury. Maybe that is what we need
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Re: Vokoun to Start

Postby Malkamaniac on Wed May 08, 2013 2:49 pm

thepittman wrote:
DropEmJayBird wrote:Vokoun better pray the team plays better in front of him. Given his lack of left-right speed, and the cane he needs to get back up after going down - he needs a tight ship in front of him as opposed to the free wheeling crashing islanders using penguins in front of the net as potential pinball options to score goals off of.


He is a different style goalie than fleury. Maybe that is what we need


Not only that, the players know that he's not MAF. They'll/They Should play much more reserved in front of him.
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Re: Vokoun to Start

Postby tfrizz on Wed May 08, 2013 2:49 pm

MarioLives wrote:So just out of curiosity, what happens if this team plays better in front of Vokoun and they dominate? What does that say about the team? Why can't they do that when MAF is in there? It may be a moot point, we will see.


It says that they trust MAF too much, in my opinion. If they tighten up their play because Vokoun is in, but play looser because MAF is in, then they really need to re-evaluate things.
Last edited by tfrizz on Wed May 08, 2013 2:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Vokoun to Start

Postby AlexPKeaton on Wed May 08, 2013 2:49 pm

MarioLives wrote:So just out of curiosity, what happens if this team plays better in front of Vokoun and they dominate? What does that say about the team? Why can't they do that when MAF is in there? It may be a moot point, we will see.


I think those beer league goals tend to frustrate the Pens. I think the players are a lot less frustrated when they let up a goal they know is from a defensive breakdown or a great play by the Isles, rather than a Fleurism goal from behind the net. They are deflating the team and leading to frustration and forcing plays.
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