Geno running for another Conn Smythe

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Re: Geno running for another Conn Smythe

Postby farnham16 on Sat May 11, 2013 10:32 pm

Henry Hank wrote:Malkin picked it up huge towards the end of the game. He made several huge defensive plays, even. That just proves why he's so frustrating. If he played like that a lot earlier, that's another reason this series wouldn't have been this close. The points are great, but they need his head in the game more in other ways.


This series was close because the team as a whole didn't play consistently.
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Re: Geno running for another Conn Smythe

Postby burghsportsguys on Sat May 11, 2013 10:33 pm

What exactly is "Malkin hatred" - is that the same as having the ability to objectively judge a player both for his exceptional play and his boneheaded plays? Throw Letang in the mix, as he had some real head-scratchers this series, including what could have been the Isles game-winner tonight.

Malkin has exceptional talent, but it's undeniable that he goes into coast/lazy mode from time to time. And when he's playing that way, he can really hurt the team. To say otherwise is basically having your head up your ass. If he was at 100% effort at all times, he'd probably outproduce Crosby.
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Re: Geno running for another Conn Smythe

Postby GaryRissling on Sat May 11, 2013 10:33 pm

Just so I'm clear: malkin's critics just don't like how he looks on the ice. That he has significant quantifiable contributions is irrelevant. That about right?
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Re: Geno running for another Conn Smythe

Postby MRandall25 on Sat May 11, 2013 10:35 pm

I dunno, Gary. Maybe if you watched the games and didn't just look at the stat line, you would know why people aren't happy with Malkin's play.
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Re: Geno running for another Conn Smythe

Postby farnham16 on Sat May 11, 2013 10:35 pm

MRandall25 wrote:
farnham16 wrote:And its laughable to call Malkin lazy. That backcheck he had on the PP to block a shot that saved a goal really was lazy wasn't it.


One play does not make an overall body of work.

Again, I'm not "hating" on Malkin. I'm being realistic. He played like **** for the majority of this series. The stat line is not a good indicator of his play.


I just disagree. I think he overall played an okay series. Not as good as he needs to be, but not nearly as bad as some are making out.

The entire team played under their capabilities. Everyone. Not even Crosby was great the whole time.
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Re: Geno running for another Conn Smythe

Postby GaryRissling on Sat May 11, 2013 10:38 pm

MRandall25 wrote:I dunno, Gary. Maybe if you watched the games and didn't just look at the stat line, you would know why people aren't happy with Malkin's play.


I'm just saying he's been one of the few assets on team of liabilities. If you were going to itemize this team's problems against the Isles, Malkin's overall play shouldn't be in the top 10.
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Re: Geno running for another Conn Smythe

Postby darkstar57 on Sat May 11, 2013 10:45 pm

Malkin started playing better when Kunitz was put on his line. He just never gelled wiith inginla, plus Malkin plays his best hockey when there is a defensive minded player on his line. Kunitz provides a lot of d zone coverage for Malkin.

I feel like the geno line is going to come up huge I. This next series
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Re: Geno running for another Conn Smythe

Postby Eismann on Sat May 11, 2013 10:47 pm

Geno's hurt, I believe. Lack of net-jam is the ultimate proof.

Go hard, Geno.
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Re: Geno running for another Conn Smythe

Postby Henry Hank on Sat May 11, 2013 11:00 pm

farnham16 wrote:
Henry Hank wrote:Malkin picked it up huge towards the end of the game. He made several huge defensive plays, even. That just proves why he's so frustrating. If he played like that a lot earlier, that's another reason this series wouldn't have been this close. The points are great, but they need his head in the game more in other ways.


This series was close because the team as a whole didn't play consistently.


I know. That's why I said Malkin was one reason. I'm just pointing out, it was very evident that he turned his game on late in the third tonight. It just frustrates me to see he's capable of that but he didn't bring that until late in game six. He and the rest of the team need to wake up a lot sooner if they want to go any further. I'd argue a lot of the team still hadn't woken up by the time tonight's game ended.
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Re: Geno running for another Conn Smythe

Postby Lt. Dish on Sat May 11, 2013 11:09 pm

I expect lots of needling and nudging by the Sens vs. Geno.
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Re: Geno running for another Conn Smythe

Postby Eismann on Sat May 11, 2013 11:12 pm

Lt. Dish wrote:I expect lots of needling and nudging by the Sens vs. Geno.


Would be great. Lose energy on the russian concussion. Get waysted by teh Sidz.
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Re: Geno running for another Conn Smythe

Postby NashvilleCat on Sat May 11, 2013 11:12 pm

farnham16 wrote:
MRandall25 wrote:
farnham16 wrote:And its laughable to call Malkin lazy. That backcheck he had on the PP to block a shot that saved a goal really was lazy wasn't it.


One play does not make an overall body of work.

Again, I'm not "hating" on Malkin. I'm being realistic. He played like **** for the majority of this series. The stat line is not a good indicator of his play.


I just disagree. I think he overall played an okay series. Not as good as he needs to be, but not nearly as bad as some are making out.

The entire team played under their capabilities. Everyone. Not even Crosby was great the whole time.

I agree he was okay and still had 11 points. Can't wait till he plays better. Who knows what he'll do.
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Re: Geno running for another Conn Smythe

Postby NashvilleCat on Sat May 11, 2013 11:13 pm

Need a gif of Nabokov looking left and right after Orpik's shot went in. Classic "where'd that go" reaction he had all series.
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Re: Geno running for another Conn Smythe

Postby murphydump55 on Sat May 11, 2013 11:20 pm

farnham16 wrote:And its laughable to call Malkin lazy. That backcheck he had on the PP to block a shot that saved a goal really was lazy wasn't it.


The sole reason he had to backcheck like that was because he was standing still on the blueline and not anticipating at all.

When the TSN analysts spend time between periods showing his shifts in the defensive zone and how lazy and disengaged he is, there's something to it. When Don Cherry (who I despise and hate), has clips showing Malkin coasting and being lazy, there's something to it.

I'm not saying these guys know everything and that everything they say is gospel, but people are starting to see a trend here and calling him out for it. We need to stop defending him and accept that yes he isn't bringing it for 60 minutes, especially in the defensive zone.

In game 5, Geno was a beast defensively, just insane. Tonight, left a lot to be desired.
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Re: Geno running for another Conn Smythe

Postby Eismann on Sat May 11, 2013 11:21 pm

I will allow murphydump to post for me from teh now onz.
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Re: Geno running for another Conn Smythe

Postby topshelf66 on Sat May 11, 2013 11:24 pm

11 points. All on a breakfast of chipped beef and scotch.
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Re: Geno running for another Conn Smythe

Postby eddiefromirwin on Sat May 11, 2013 11:50 pm

He's scored, but he and his linemates have looked like defensive liabilities in the series far too often. However, I think the next series will play out much differently than this one.
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Re: Geno running for another Conn Smythe

Postby Eismann on Sun May 12, 2013 12:34 am

topshelf66 wrote:11 points. All on a breakfast of chipped beef and scotch.


If that was your breakfast, then you're cash.
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Re: Geno running for another Conn Smythe

Postby eberhard on Sun May 12, 2013 1:21 am

Malkin has always been an inconsistent player. He has glorious physical abilities, but is prone to mood swings (retaliating, sulking, later confidently pouring it on) and loses focus (e.g. losing his Tavares assignment in the first).

That's who Malkin is. Players have weaknesses.
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Re: Geno running for another Conn Smythe

Postby André on Sun May 12, 2013 3:21 am

André wrote:
ulf wrote:I've watched all games, and I think what you're saying is weird. Minus the major, stand out gaffes people seem to overlook Geno's created more chances on equal strength. "Head and shoulders above" is just wrong. Watch the replays. Or you just don't know what to look for.

Minus a fantastic goal and an awesome assist Sid was actually relatively quiet last night.

Was that last part sarcasm?


No and I'm not alone thinking that.

http://www.faceoff-factor.com/2grading-the-pens/4817/pens-vs-islanders-game-5-grades

You haven't watched Sid alot? He can be absolutely mind boggling. Completely dominating periods and games. He is the best player in the world these past three years. His game five was very good with two fantastic moments but it wasn't one of his best games.
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Re: Geno running for another Conn Smythe

Postby André on Sun May 12, 2013 3:39 am

Some of the posts in these last two pages are absolutely insane. And once again proof of the how Geno's judged harder by an LGP jury if he and Sid were to commit the same crime.

From other guys I'm not surprised but from Henry Hank, that's a negative suprise. If Geno had showed up more the series would've been shorter? Jesus christ. Yeah he was part of messing up game four but his gaffes didn't cost more than his contributions. Minus game six he created more equal strength chances than Sid all series long.

The major game four gaffes are inexcusable but don't let them overshadow the rest of games. He's been strong on the puck, setting up his team mates. Easily could've had another goal and a few more assists. Yes it's not the best Geno we've seen and production in relation to play is a tad high, but he's been great.

It just never ends.
Last edited by André on Sun May 12, 2013 4:00 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Geno running for another Conn Smythe

Postby André on Sun May 12, 2013 3:50 am

Compare Sid's game 5 and Geno's game 6. Relatively quiet nights except two great plays deciding the game.

Yes, Sid's two moments were better and overall his game 5 was better than Geno's game 6. But by how much? Say Sid's game 5 was 20% better than Geno's game 6 (just to visualize the comparison).

Then compare the reactions to their games. There's an atlantic ocean between those. Some cries of praise of Sid's game 5 is echoing through the universe. Jesse's tweet in capital letters on how there are not words to explain what Sid just did after the saucer pass to Letang, for example. Geno's game six, on the other hand? Nah, why didn't he show up for the whole game? His play alone extended the series. Bum.

I've gone there before without being popular but the Captain Canada vs the flashy (sometimes moody) russian could be part of it. What I think is a bigger factor though is people's need of a hero and idol, which is a need Sid fills very well if you're a hockey fan. He has tons of fans - me being one of them, jumping around in my couch at 3:00 AM after the goal the other night - but he also has alot of fan boys who you can tell in how they phrase their opinions feel threatened when their hero's place as number is challenged, or at times excelled, by Geno.

And I hate this, I really do. I love them both. We're so ridiculously spoiled to have had the best in the world (minus stretches of prime Ovy) from 06 up until today. That moment from game five that I just mentioned for example; will never forget it. Through the Sid bashing years I've defended him countless of times here in Sweden, before the opinion to some extent finally swayed after there was no denying his greatness anymore. Geno more easily being questioned here on LGP is obvious, however, and I'll try to just ignore it from now on. I guess it's not the same irl, going by the MVP chants from the Pittsburgh crowd during Geno's best runs (which I honestly believe some LGP'ers didn't enjoy that much, because "it should've been Sid".)
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Re: Geno running for another Conn Smythe

Postby farnham16 on Sun May 12, 2013 9:04 am

André wrote:Compare Sid's game 5 and Geno's game 6. Relatively quiet nights except two great plays deciding the game.

Yes, Sid's two moments were better and overall his game 5 was better than Geno's game 6. But by how much? Say Sid's game 5 was 20% better than Geno's game 6 (just to visualize the comparison).

Then compare the reactions to their games. There's an atlantic ocean between those. Some cries of praise of Sid's game 5 is echoing through the universe. Jesse's tweet in capital letters on how there are not words to explain what Sid just did after the saucer pass to Letang, for example. Geno's game six, on the other hand? Nah, why didn't he show up for the whole game? His play alone extended the series. Bum.

I've gone there before without being popular but the Captain Canada vs the flashy (sometimes moody) russian could be part of it. What I think is a bigger factor though is people's need of a hero and idol, which is a need Sid fills very well if you're a hockey fan. He has tons of fans - me being one of them, jumping around in my couch at 3:00 AM after the goal the other night - but he also has alot of fan boys who you can tell in how they phrase their opinions feel threatened when their hero's place as number is challenged, or at times excelled, by Geno.

And I hate this, I really do. I love them both. We're so ridiculously spoiled to have had the best in the world (minus stretches of prime Ovy) from 06 up until today. That moment from game five that I just mentioned for example; will never forget it. Through the Sid bashing years I've defended him countless of times here in Sweden, before the opinion to some extent finally swayed after there was no denying his greatness anymore. Geno more easily being questioned here on LGP is obvious, however, and I'll try to just ignore it from now on. I guess it's not the same irl, going by the MVP chants from the Pittsburgh crowd during Geno's best runs (which I honestly believe some LGP'ers didn't enjoy that much, because "it should've been Sid".)


I think its clearly because he's Russian for most people that constantly bash him. Most won't ever admit it but its the truth. I just don't think there is any other logical explanation for the amount of hate Malkin gets in Pittsburgh and on this board when you consider all the things he has accomplished for this organization.

Malkin is always going to be compared to Crosby. That's just how it is. When you look at their careers, they are remarkably similar. Sid's numbers are better but not by much. And when you look at the hardware they have collected, again, very similar, but Malkin has the advantage here because he has a Conn Symthe (Which is the most important individual hockey award in my book). Their careers are so similar yet people get always getting mad at Malkin because he' not exactly like Crosby.

Who cares if he's not exactly like Crosby? Who can be? Overall, yes Crosby is a more consistent player than Malkin but Malkin is easily the closest thing to Crosby in the NHL when you are looking at production. And People love to talk about Sid's comeback from the concussion and how great he was right away, but what about Malkin? He came back from a torn up knee and won an Art Ross and MVP. That comeback was just as amazing if not more so.

People love to point to Malkin's puck management. Seemingly any time he makes a mistake with the puck fans are all over him for it. Sid might not turn it over as much as Geno, but Sid turns it over frequently also. And what about Letang? Now he's the real turnover machine on this team for me. And what kind of player do you tend to see more turnovers from in hockey? The best players actually. They have so much skill and so much confidence in their games that they always want to make the tough play. Which can result in turnovers sometimes. Even the best players in the world are going to make mistakes from time to time. No one is perfect.

Hate to say it, but for me at all comes back to the fact that one is Russian and the other is Canadian. Sid will be forever immune to long stretches of criticism from the fan base while Malkin will probably never enjoy that. Even though as mentioned before, he has accomplished just as much as Crosby has.
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Re: Geno running for another Conn Smythe

Postby burghsportsguys on Sun May 12, 2013 9:25 am

farnham16 wrote:Their careers are so similar yet people get always getting mad at Malkin because he' not exactly like Crosby.

...

Hate to say it, but for me at all comes back to the fact that one is Russian and the other is Canadian. Sid will be forever immune to long stretches of criticism from the fan base while Malkin will probably never enjoy that. Even though as mentioned before, he has accomplished just as much as Crosby has.

Do you think 98% of people on here even care if someone is American, Canadien, Russian, Slavic, German, etc.? Don Cherry and idiots like that might care, but the penguin fanbase doesn't have an anti-Russian bias.


I can't speak for everyone, but anyone I've ever talked with about Malkin get upset because, even though he has as much, if not more talent than Crosby, he simply doesn't always (ok, near-always, since everyone has an off night) give his fullest effort.

Last night is a PERFECT example. He was largely apathetic for 5/6 of the game, but then he took the game over. How can someone NOT BE frustrated by that? Imagine what kind of production Malkin would have if he played an entire season at that level.

The issue isn't Russian vs. Canadien. It's Malkin-Fanboys vs. Objective Analysis. I'll give you there may be people on the far extreme (1%-ers) that won't give Malkin his due. But most of us that are critical of him are just so frustrated that he can go from so dominant to so mind-bogglingly lazy at the drop of a hat. I've also seen Sid get lazy and apathetic at times (and it can happen when he goes a stretch getting shutdown by a solid opposing D-pairing), but the difference between Sid and Geno is that Sid is 100% effort about 95% of the time, and Geno is 100% effort about 60% to 70% of the time (maybe that's generous, and certainly is generous when you look at this series). If there are a group of people that favor Crosby, it's has to do with WORK ETHIC, shift in and shift out, game in and game out, and that's the bottom line.

Is he the biggest problem in this series? No. Worse than Fleury? No. Worse than Niskanen? Sutter? Most of the d-men? No. That's not the point, and it's not an excuse. This entire team played like **** for 70% of the series, but they are so much more talented than the NYI that they were able to get away with it. Malkin is a top 5 talent in the league (maybe top 2 or even the most talented), so he can get away with being lazy and still put up big numbers. Hell, Lemieux went through stretches where he was exactly the same way, but even at 75%, Mario was so much better than everyone else.

The more the fanboys blindly defend him based on stats like 11 points in 6 games, the more the objective fan will become irrational in pointing out his flaws, just to show that there are two sides to the story.
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Re: Geno running for another Conn Smythe

Postby shmenguin on Sun May 12, 2013 9:29 am

compared to the standards that he's set over the years, he wasn't good this series. citing his point production is hollow. iginila had what like 9 points and he wasn't very good either. the isles joke defense and goaltending facilitates star players eating them alive. if geno plays this way against ottawa, it's gonna be ugly. i think most of it is due to injury. it's not coincidence that his skating and execution went to hell the second JVR plowed him into the boards. he's hurting, and part of me thinks he'd be better off missing a couple games against ottawa if it meant he could heal.
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