Geno running for another Conn Smythe

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Re: Geno running for another Conn Smythe

Postby headh on Mon May 13, 2013 9:01 am

Idoit40fans wrote:
headh wrote:
meow wrote:Is the Conn Smythe given to the player with the most unforced turnovers? Then yes, give it to Malkin.


Sid has one less Giveaway and played one fewer games

http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.htm? ... layerStats


If this thread was titled "Crosby running for Conn Smythe", that would be relevant. Also Crosby is 1:1 giveaways:takeaways, Malkin is 3:1, since you seem so keen on comparing the two.



http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.htm? ... layerStats

you'll notice some pretty decent hockey players who have committed more turnovers than Geno on this list. So much for Geno leading the league in turnovers. Complete myth
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Re: Geno running for another Conn Smythe

Postby CERV96 on Mon May 13, 2013 9:01 am

Human element is a factor in determining what is considered a giveaway or takeaway at times. Unless it is a blatant and obvious. Can be a miss leading statistic based on what the NHL statistician believes. I am just stating the fact and not trying to support anyone's arguments.
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Re: Geno running for another Conn Smythe

Postby Bioshock on Mon May 13, 2013 9:04 am

Malkin clearly doesn't get it.
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Re: Geno running for another Conn Smythe

Postby headh on Mon May 13, 2013 9:05 am

Idoit40fans wrote:
headh wrote:
meow wrote:Is the Conn Smythe given to the player with the most unforced turnovers? Then yes, give it to Malkin.


Sid has one less Giveaway and played one fewer games

http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.htm? ... layerStats


If this thread was titled "Crosby running for Conn Smythe", that would be relevant. Also Crosby is 1:1 giveaways:takeaways, Malkin is 3:1, since you seem so keen on comparing the two.


I am actually more marveling at the how the two are treated by the Penguin fan base considering how well they both play. I am a huge fan of both players.
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Re: Geno running for another Conn Smythe

Postby Idoit40fans on Mon May 13, 2013 9:06 am

I just don't understand why a criticism of one of them instantly brings up a comparison to the other, rather than just addressing/acknowledging the criticism itself.
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Re: Geno running for another Conn Smythe

Postby Bioshock on Mon May 13, 2013 9:09 am

Idoit40fans wrote:I just don't understand why a criticism of one of them instantly brings up a comparison to the other, rather than just addressing/acknowledging the criticism itself.


Because people are defensive of who they like. Even to the point of being irrational.
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Re: Geno running for another Conn Smythe

Postby headh on Mon May 13, 2013 9:31 am

Idoit40fans wrote:I just don't understand why a criticism of one of them instantly brings up a comparison to the other, rather than just addressing/acknowledging the criticism itself.



I compare the two because they are the two best players in the world.

In this case Geno is being criticized for leading the league in turnovers. Factually speaking the league leader in turnovers has 13 and Geno only has 6. So then I looked to see what the other best player in the world had. It's not complex nor is it some devious plot to support one player while degrading the other.
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Re: Geno running for another Conn Smythe

Postby meow on Mon May 13, 2013 9:36 am

headh wrote:
meow wrote:Is the Conn Smythe given to the player with the most unforced turnovers? Then yes, give it to Malkin.


Sid has one less Giveaway and played one fewer games

http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.htm? ... layerStats

One, I was joking. I guess that's not allowed when I take a run at your boy Malkin. Two, there was a little word in there "unforced." Three, look at the Islanders last three goals from Game 4.
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Re: Geno running for another Conn Smythe

Postby mikey287 on Mon May 13, 2013 9:36 am

If they think Geno only has six turnovers, it explains why clubs don't take those stats seriously and keep their own stats internally (for ones that matter, at least).
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Re: Geno running for another Conn Smythe

Postby tfrizz on Mon May 13, 2013 9:43 am

mikey287 wrote:If they think Geno only has six turnovers, it explains why clubs don't take those stats seriously and keep their own stats internally (for ones that matter, at least).


Yeah, the official giveaways/takeaways figures are a joke. I remember checking the box score after a game where a Malkin neutral zone giveaway led to a breakaway goal, and he was credited with 0 giveaways on the game. Needless to say, they're not accurate in the least.
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Re: Geno running for another Conn Smythe

Postby mikey287 on Mon May 13, 2013 9:47 am

Right. I think someone commented after game 1 (was it you? I don't recall) about Letang's giveaway mid 3rd period at center that really nearly spoiled Fleury's shutout...it was the definition of a giveaway and Letang wasn't credited with one.

In some of my other research, I've found a number of errors in ice time logging as well.
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Re: Geno running for another Conn Smythe

Postby Gaucho on Mon May 13, 2013 9:51 am

mikey287 wrote:

In some of my other research, I've found a number of errors in ice time logging as well.


Nerd.
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Re: Geno running for another Conn Smythe

Postby champeen on Mon May 13, 2013 9:57 am

mikey287 wrote:Right. I think someone commented after game 1 (was it you? I don't recall) about Letang's giveaway mid 3rd period at center that really nearly spoiled Fleury's shutout...it was the definition of a giveaway and Letang wasn't credited with one.

In some of my other research, I've found a number of errors in ice time logging as well.


It could be worse. A guy on our team was credited with an assist on a shootout goal.
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Re: Geno running for another Conn Smythe

Postby burghsportsguys on Mon May 13, 2013 10:01 am

The Whitney bashing was completely unfair. But his ardent supporters go the last laugh. Here he is, a Norris Trophy Finalist while Letang hasn't really amounted to anything. I, for one, owe him a big apology.
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Re: Geno running for another Conn Smythe

Postby Idoit40fans on Mon May 13, 2013 11:27 am

burghsportsguys wrote:The Whitney bashing was completely unfair. But his ardent supporters go the last laugh. Here he is, a Norris Trophy Finalist while Letang hasn't really amounted to anything. I, for one, owe him a big apology.


lolwutpear.jpg
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Re: Geno running for another Conn Smythe

Postby MRandall25 on Mon May 13, 2013 11:40 am

Bioshock wrote:
Idoit40fans wrote:I just don't understand why a criticism of one of them instantly brings up a comparison to the other, rather than just addressing/acknowledging the criticism itself.


Because people are defensive of who they like. Even to the point of being irrational.


Apparently Malkin is supposed to be immune to criticism. Did you know he won the Conn Smythe 4 years ago?
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Re: Geno running for another Conn Smythe

Postby SolidSnake on Mon May 13, 2013 11:43 am

MRandall25 wrote:
Bioshock wrote:
Idoit40fans wrote:I just don't understand why a criticism of one of them instantly brings up a comparison to the other, rather than just addressing/acknowledging the criticism itself.


Because people are defensive of who they like. Even to the point of being irrational.


Apparently Malkin is supposed to be immune to criticism. Did you know he won the Conn Smythe 4 years ago?

Against team's 2nd D pairings and not their top lines. :pop: :scared:
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Re: Geno running for another Conn Smythe

Postby skullman80 on Mon May 13, 2013 11:48 am

MRandall25 wrote:
Bioshock wrote:
Idoit40fans wrote:I just don't understand why a criticism of one of them instantly brings up a comparison to the other, rather than just addressing/acknowledging the criticism itself.


Because people are defensive of who they like. Even to the point of being irrational.


Apparently Malkin is supposed to be immune to criticism. Did you know he won the Conn Smythe 4 years ago?


Apparently Dan Bylsma is supposed to be immune to criticism. Did you know he was a Stanley Cup winning coach 4 years ago? :wink: :wink:
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Re: Geno running for another Conn Smythe

Postby Idoit40fans on Mon May 13, 2013 11:54 am

skullman80 wrote:
MRandall25 wrote:
Bioshock wrote:
Idoit40fans wrote:I just don't understand why a criticism of one of them instantly brings up a comparison to the other, rather than just addressing/acknowledging the criticism itself.


Because people are defensive of who they like. Even to the point of being irrational.


Apparently Malkin is supposed to be immune to criticism. Did you know he won the Conn Smythe 4 years ago?


Apparently Dan Bylsma is supposed to be immune to criticism. Did you know he was a Stanley Cup winning coach 4 years ago? :wink: :wink:


excellent.
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Re: Geno running for another Conn Smythe

Postby MRandall25 on Mon May 13, 2013 11:58 am

Touché, but the majority opinion is that Bylsma is bad. I'm one of the few who disagrees.

You can't say anything bad about Malkin on this board because:

1. "He was MVP last year!"

2. "He already has 11 points!!"

3. "He's allowed to make turnovers in the defensive zone because he's good!"

etc. etc.
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Re: Geno running for another Conn Smythe

Postby count2infinity on Mon May 13, 2013 12:00 pm

MRandall25 wrote:Touché, but the majority opinion is that Bylsma is bad. I'm one of the few who disagrees.

You can't say anything bad about Malkin on this board because:

1. "He was MVP last year!"

2. "He already has 11 points!!"

3. "He's allowed to make turnovers in the defensive zone because he's good!"

etc. etc.


well... to be fair, he was MVP last year, already has 11 points, and he is good.
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Re: Geno running for another Conn Smythe

Postby MRandall25 on Mon May 13, 2013 12:01 pm

count2infinity wrote:
MRandall25 wrote:Touché, but the majority opinion is that Bylsma is bad. I'm one of the few who disagrees.

You can't say anything bad about Malkin on this board because:

1. "He was MVP last year!"

2. "He already has 11 points!!"

3. "He's allowed to make turnovers in the defensive zone because he's good!"

etc. etc.


well... to be fair, he was MVP last year, already has 11 points, and he is good.


But that shouldn't absolve him from lackadaisical play in his defensive zone and really bad turnovers that lead to goals.
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Re: Geno running for another Conn Smythe

Postby count2infinity on Mon May 13, 2013 12:03 pm

but... MVP.
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Re: Geno running for another Conn Smythe

Postby Gaucho on Mon May 13, 2013 12:21 pm

*scratch scratch*
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Re: Geno running for another Conn Smythe

Postby Tico Rick on Mon May 13, 2013 12:25 pm

MRandall25 wrote:
count2infinity wrote:
MRandall25 wrote:Touché, but the majority opinion is that Bylsma is bad. I'm one of the few who disagrees.

You can't say anything bad about Malkin on this board because:

1. "He was MVP last year!"

2. "He already has 11 points!!"

3. "He's allowed to make turnovers in the defensive zone because he's good!"

etc. etc.


well... to be fair, he was MVP last year, already has 11 points, and he is good.


But that shouldn't absolve him from lackadaisical play in his defensive zone and really bad turnovers that lead to goals.


Any coach's dilemma with a guy like Malkin is the same as with Letang: can you really afford to bench him when he makes bonehead plays?
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