Did Fleury play his last game as a Penguin?

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Fleury's gone
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At least next season
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Total votes : 106

Re: Did Fleury play his last game as a Penguin?

Postby DropEmJayBird on Fri May 10, 2013 10:55 am

If the penguins play as well as they did last night - they won't have a problem with MAF in net.

Some awful rebounds by Vokoun wen't away with a simple clear of the puck by a defenseman. Only 2 shots were deflected toward the net. Traffic was non existent. The penguins got the puck quickly out of their zone and when they did not - they clogged the lanes and kept the isles outside.

It was game 1 all over again - and just like in game 1 - our goalie recorded the shut out. Good things happen when you don't turn the puck over and manage the pucik, bad things happen when you don't.

Vokoun made some great saves on the chances they isles did get, and I remember MAF making similar saves in games 2,3,4. The difference was when those saves were made, the penguins got out of their zone.

I'm an optimist - team plays well then goalie looks good.
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Re: Did Fleury play his last game as a Penguin?

Postby Henry Hank on Fri May 10, 2013 10:56 am

tfrizz wrote:
Henry Hank wrote:Winning is more important than coddling a headcase. If Fleury can't handle being rightfully benched, that's even more reason to cut ties with him for good. The appropriate response from him if he does get another chance is to play the best hockey of his career.

We've all made too many excuses for Fleury. They need to do what's best for the team to win, not what will make Fleury feel good about himself. What he made this season in relation to Vokoun is irrelevant. If Vokoun really does give them a better chance to win, maybe the fact that Fleury is a significantly higher cap hit is kind of a problem, maybe the kind of problem they need to solve with a trade or buyout. Fleury being "the guy" just because he's been their starter for a while isn't good enough reason to play him when he's been doing everything he can to help them lose in the playoffs over the last few years.


That's probably not going to happen. You don't just magically re-gain your confidence by sitting on the bench, unfortunately.


But he should be much more motivated and focused on playing good hockey when he gets a chance. That's the way I'd hope he responds. If he's sitting there pouting and down on himself, I definitely don't want him playing another game here.
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Re: Did Fleury play his last game as a Penguin?

Postby Steve on Fri May 10, 2013 11:01 am

It's all speculation at this point and just for fun I guess - but If the Pens win game 6 and Vokoun is as strong as last night, I just don't see the Pens starting the 2nd round with MAF in net.
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Re: Did Fleury play his last game as a Penguin?

Postby DontToewsMeBro on Fri May 10, 2013 11:02 am

DropEmJayBird wrote:If the penguins play as well as they did last night - they won't have a problem with MAF in net.

Some awful rebounds by Vokoun wen't away with a simple clear of the puck by a defenseman. Only 2 shots were deflected toward the net. Traffic was non existent. The penguins got the puck quickly out of their zone and when they did not - they clogged the lanes and kept the isles outside.

It was game 1 all over again - and just like in game 1 - our goalie recorded the shut out. Good things happen when you don't turn the puck over and manage the pucik, bad things happen when you don't.

Vokoun made some great saves on the chances they isles did get, and I remember MAF making similar saves in games 2,3,4. The difference was when those saves were made, the penguins got out of their zone.

I'm an optimist - team plays well then goalie looks good.


I know you are the Captain of the S.S. Fleury currently sinking in the harbor, but did you wake up midway through the second period? The Islanders were the better team in the 1st and we were lucky to get out of that period scoreless. Vokoun stopped at least 3 quality chances. You really think Fleury would have stopped all 14 shots? Better yet, you really think he would have stopped the pucks that didn't even hit the net? The difference in body language between Fleury and Vokoun was night and day.

No flopping. Keep it simple. That is what the Penguins need. They haven't had great goaltending in the playoffs since their 1st trip to the SC Finals--now that we might get it, we want to abandon it because we feel bad for Fleury? Not a chance.
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Re: Did Fleury play his last game as a Penguin?

Postby tfrizz on Fri May 10, 2013 11:04 am

Henry Hank wrote:
tfrizz wrote:
Henry Hank wrote:Winning is more important than coddling a headcase. If Fleury can't handle being rightfully benched, that's even more reason to cut ties with him for good. The appropriate response from him if he does get another chance is to play the best hockey of his career.

We've all made too many excuses for Fleury. They need to do what's best for the team to win, not what will make Fleury feel good about himself. What he made this season in relation to Vokoun is irrelevant. If Vokoun really does give them a better chance to win, maybe the fact that Fleury is a significantly higher cap hit is kind of a problem, maybe the kind of problem they need to solve with a trade or buyout. Fleury being "the guy" just because he's been their starter for a while isn't good enough reason to play him when he's been doing everything he can to help them lose in the playoffs over the last few years.


That's probably not going to happen. You don't just magically re-gain your confidence by sitting on the bench, unfortunately.


But he should be much more motivated and focused on playing good hockey when he gets a chance. That's the way I'd hope he responds. If he's sitting there pouting and down on himself, I definitely don't want him playing another game here.


Fleury doesn't strike me as a guy who every really lacks motivation or focus. He lacks is any semblance of structure to his game (fundamentals), and seems to have some serious issues with confidence. One of those is easily fixed, the other isn't.
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Re: Did Fleury play his last game as a Penguin?

Postby tfrizz on Fri May 10, 2013 11:06 am

NashvilleCat wrote:
tfrizz wrote:
slappybrown wrote:
shafnutz05 wrote:Has Fleury ever had "excellent form"?

(inb4 Lidstromsave.jpeg)

The 2007-2008 Cup run that ended in a loss to Detroit, he was excellent. By far the best hockey he's ever played in his career (2nd in the playoffs in save% that season at .933). 933!


Coincidentally (or not) he also had Ty Conklin working with him on his technique, puck handling, and mental game on a daily basis over that stretch.

Meloche needs to go first. See if someone can help the Flower "get to his game." He has the tools needs to get help with all the above.


I've been in that corner for years now, but Meloche is one of Mario's buddies and that means job security. Realistically, the Pens could afford to take that kind of chance next seasons and use a compliance buyout on Fleury in 2014 if it doesn't work out. Vokoun is signed through next season, so worst case scenario is he starts and Fleury backs him up. Letang and Malkin won't new contracts on the books until the 2014-15 season, so they're not an issue for next season.

The only way Fleury's contract really becomes an issue is if Iginla wants to re-sign but they can't find the space.
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Re: Did Fleury play his last game as a Penguin?

Postby Pavel Bure on Fri May 10, 2013 11:07 am

Grab Ray Emery in FA and platoon him and Vokoun? Nah. The FA market for goalies is pretty darn bare. Fleury will be here next year.
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Re: Did Fleury play his last game as a Penguin?

Postby AlexPKeaton on Fri May 10, 2013 11:12 am

Is Miller done in Buffalo? Buy out MAF, trade for Miller.
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Re: Did Fleury play his last game as a Penguin?

Postby tfrizz on Fri May 10, 2013 11:14 am

Pavel Bure wrote:Grab Ray Emery in FA and platoon him and Vokoun? Nah. The FA market for goalies is pretty darn bare. Fleury will be here next year.


UFA Goalies, 2013
RFA Goalies, 2013

Very shallow bunch of free agents. The UFA options are pretty well limited to Smith and Emery unless you want to run with two 35+ goalies. The RFA options aren't much better. Rask, Bobrovsky, and Markstrom are going to be re-signed by their respective teams. The only other one worth a shot is Jonathan Bernier, but he's going to garner A LOT of attention.

Even the trade options aren't pretty. The only goalies on the market are Luongo and Miller. Both are headcases in their own right, and both come with a bigger price tag than Fleury.


Smith and Emery are going to cash in big time thanks to the poor selection.
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Re: Did Fleury play his last game as a Penguin?

Postby tfrizz on Fri May 10, 2013 11:16 am

AlexPKeaton wrote:Is Miller done in Buffalo? Buy out MAF, trade for Miller.


He is, but Buffalo is reportedly going to rebuild and will be asking a hefty price of picks, prospects, and young players for Miller. Not to mention Miller's cap hit is $1.25-million higher than Fleury's which isn't going to help their cap situation at all. Unless Shero could get Buffalo to retain some salary, I don't see Miller being an option; and with the lack of available free agents, and the number of teams that'll be interested in Miller, there's no way they retain salary.

In other words, if you get Miller you can throw any notion of signing Iginla out the window. Luongo is a bit more modestly priced ($5.3-million) but he's signed for 9 more seasons and has been a bigger playoff bust than Fleury, if that's even possible.
Last edited by tfrizz on Fri May 10, 2013 11:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Did Fleury play his last game as a Penguin?

Postby murphydump55 on Fri May 10, 2013 11:16 am

DropEmJayBird wrote:If the penguins play as well as they did last night - they won't have a problem with MAF in net.

Some awful rebounds by Vokoun wen't away with a simple clear of the puck by a defenseman. Only 2 shots were deflected toward the net. Traffic was non existent. The penguins got the puck quickly out of their zone and when they did not - they clogged the lanes and kept the isles outside.

It was game 1 all over again - and just like in game 1 - our goalie recorded the shut out. Good things happen when you don't turn the puck over and manage the pucik, bad things happen when you don't.

Vokoun made some great saves on the chances they isles did get, and I remember MAF making similar saves in games 2,3,4. The difference was when those saves were made, the penguins got out of their zone.

I'm an optimist - team plays well then goalie looks good.


Wrong, Vokoun made many saves last night that probably would have gone in if it were the fragile, headcase, Fleury in net. The Pens didn't come out playing really well and Vokoun held them in the game. Fleury would have sunk them by letting in a goal or two. That was the difference, they gained confidence and finally got to their game.

Vokoun also plays the puck and stops dump ins much better than Fleury. Fleury was killing this team with his spaz play and soft goals. It plays on the the players minds and therefore gets them off their game. Vokoun was calm, steady, and didn't spaz out, and this reflected in the play of the rest of the team.
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Re: Did Fleury play his last game as a Penguin?

Postby brwi on Fri May 10, 2013 11:17 am

Steve wrote:It's all speculation at this point and just for fun I guess - but If the Pens win game 6 and Vokoun is as strong as last night, I just don't see the Pens starting the 2nd round with MAF in net.


You would have to be an idiot to start MAF if Vokoun looks solid in Game 6. You ride the hot hand always and MAF's contract isn't so humongous that if you have to part ways with him it's a real issue these days with 2 amnesty buyouts. Before the new CBA....might be a different story here where you have to live or die on certain players due to their contracts.

I hope it doesn't ever come to that point with MAF, but that's a worst case scenario. I really doubt he's going to have a hissy fit to the media or be a negative drain on the team as a backup. He might be a headcase at times on the ice, but I haven't ever heard of him having issues off the ice or ever going to the media over injustices or whatever if he ain't happy.
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Re: Did Fleury play his last game as a Penguin?

Postby tfrizz on Fri May 10, 2013 11:22 am

murphydump55 wrote:
DropEmJayBird wrote:If the penguins play as well as they did last night - they won't have a problem with MAF in net.

Some awful rebounds by Vokoun wen't away with a simple clear of the puck by a defenseman. Only 2 shots were deflected toward the net. Traffic was non existent. The penguins got the puck quickly out of their zone and when they did not - they clogged the lanes and kept the isles outside.

It was game 1 all over again - and just like in game 1 - our goalie recorded the shut out. Good things happen when you don't turn the puck over and manage the pucik, bad things happen when you don't.

Vokoun made some great saves on the chances they isles did get, and I remember MAF making similar saves in games 2,3,4. The difference was when those saves were made, the penguins got out of their zone.

I'm an optimist - team plays well then goalie looks good.


Wrong, Vokoun made many saves last night that probably would have gone in if it were the fragile, headcase, Fleury in net. The Pens didn't come out playing really well and Vokoun held them in the game. Fleury would have sunk them by letting in a goal or two. That was the difference, they gained confidence and finally got to their game.

Vokoun also plays the puck and stops dump ins much better than Fleury. Fleury was killing this team with his spaz play and soft goals. It plays on the the players minds and therefore gets them off their game. Vokoun was calm, steady, and didn't spaz out, and this reflected in the play of the rest of the team.


I'm not sure how you can say that with absolute confidence. Fleury has come out with strong 1st periods in every game of the series, just like Vokoun did last night, but the team never settled in ahead of him. If you go back and watch the 4 goals he's given up in 1st periods, as I did earlier, not a single one of them was even remotely soft.

Statistically, in terms of composure, and in terms of soft goals, Fleury has consistently start strong and gotten worse throughout in every game this series except the first... but the team looked bad before Fleury even gave them a reason to. That means that either they didn't trust Fleury from the very start (even after recording a game 1 shutout), or they thought the Islanders were going to roll over once they scored the first 7 goals of the series.
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Re: Did Fleury play his last game as a Penguin?

Postby shmenguin on Fri May 10, 2013 11:22 am

yay, miller! we need another undersized fragile headcase
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Re: Did Fleury play his last game as a Penguin?

Postby RxBandit66 on Fri May 10, 2013 11:22 am

Imagine the Pens are locked up in a late game 7 tie against the Blackhawks (or Sunday against the Isles for that matter). Three minutes are left, an opposing defenseman takes a routine shot from the point, and the puck bounces crazy towards the Pens goal crease. The puck is moving very slowly, and all the goaltender has to do is be in position, track the puck calmly, and cover it up for a faceoff.

Which goalie currently on the Pens roster would make you feel more comfortable in a situation like that, in the heat of the moment?

If the answer to the question is Tomas Vokoun, then he should be the starter until something changes. Hands down. The players may not be saying it outright, but their confidence in Fleury has to be shaky at this point.
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Re: Did Fleury play his last game as a Penguin?

Postby JoseCuervo on Fri May 10, 2013 11:27 am

mikey287 wrote:Now, these don't always work out certainly...but with how goaltending is around the league today, all you have to do is protect them well enough and you'll get results. Most goalies can only strive to have a neutral, or, non-negative, impact on the game and they are considered successful. If we really needed to go that route, I'm confident we could find a capable goaltender. We probably couldn't find the rare goalie that can have a positive impact on the game (Fleury in 2008 and 2009 for instance) but that's not the way the league is heading right now anyway...


Not to be too negative, but are you really that confident? This organization has a pretty bad track record with goalies. Also, you mention all these goalies from Europe, but I'm still not positive that the pens have any scouts over there, yet (half sarcasm, half truth).
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Re: Did Fleury play his last game as a Penguin?

Postby rjb2112 on Fri May 10, 2013 11:29 am

tfrizz wrote:
Pavel Bure wrote:Grab Ray Emery in FA and platoon him and Vokoun? Nah. The FA market for goalies is pretty darn bare. Fleury will be here next year.


UFA Goalies, 2013
RFA Goalies, 2013

Very shallow bunch of free agents. The UFA options are pretty well limited to Smith and Emery unless you want to run with two 35+ goalies. The RFA options aren't much better. Rask, Bobrovsky, and Markstrom are going to be re-signed by their respective teams. The only other one worth a shot is Jonathan Bernier, but he's going to garner A LOT of attention.

Even the trade options aren't pretty. The only goalies on the market are Luongo and Miller. Both are headcases in their own right, and both come with a bigger price tag than Fleury.


Smith and Emery are going to cash in big time thanks to the poor selection.

Montreal appears to be an ideal trading partner at this time, sending MAF back home and reuniting him with MT.
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Re: Did Fleury play his last game as a Penguin?

Postby AlexPKeaton on Fri May 10, 2013 11:30 am

shmenguin wrote:yay, miller! we need another undersized fragile headcase


I'd rather take a chance on Miller, a once top 3 goaltender, over Fleury, who completely and utterly sucks and might be lucky to land a job greeting at Walmart after this playoff.
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Re: Did Fleury play his last game as a Penguin?

Postby count2infinity on Fri May 10, 2013 11:33 am

rjb2112 wrote:
tfrizz wrote:
Pavel Bure wrote:Grab Ray Emery in FA and platoon him and Vokoun? Nah. The FA market for goalies is pretty darn bare. Fleury will be here next year.


UFA Goalies, 2013
RFA Goalies, 2013

Very shallow bunch of free agents. The UFA options are pretty well limited to Smith and Emery unless you want to run with two 35+ goalies. The RFA options aren't much better. Rask, Bobrovsky, and Markstrom are going to be re-signed by their respective teams. The only other one worth a shot is Jonathan Bernier, but he's going to garner A LOT of attention.

Even the trade options aren't pretty. The only goalies on the market are Luongo and Miller. Both are headcases in their own right, and both come with a bigger price tag than Fleury.


Smith and Emery are going to cash in big time thanks to the poor selection.

Montreal appears to be an ideal trading partner at this time, sending MAF back home and reuniting him with MT.


what? they have price, why would they want MAF?
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Re: Did Fleury play his last game as a Penguin?

Postby rjb2112 on Fri May 10, 2013 11:36 am

count2infinity wrote:
rjb2112 wrote:
tfrizz wrote:
Pavel Bure wrote:Grab Ray Emery in FA and platoon him and Vokoun? Nah. The FA market for goalies is pretty darn bare. Fleury will be here next year.


UFA Goalies, 2013
RFA Goalies, 2013

Very shallow bunch of free agents. The UFA options are pretty well limited to Smith and Emery unless you want to run with two 35+ goalies. The RFA options aren't much better. Rask, Bobrovsky, and Markstrom are going to be re-signed by their respective teams. The only other one worth a shot is Jonathan Bernier, but he's going to garner A LOT of attention.

Even the trade options aren't pretty. The only goalies on the market are Luongo and Miller. Both are headcases in their own right, and both come with a bigger price tag than Fleury.


Smith and Emery are going to cash in big time thanks to the poor selection.

Montreal appears to be an ideal trading partner at this time, sending MAF back home and reuniting him with MT.


what? they have price, why would they want MAF?

Do they actually still want him though, or could he use a change of scenery as well?
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Re: Did Fleury play his last game as a Penguin?

Postby slappybrown on Fri May 10, 2013 11:37 am

wat
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Re: Did Fleury play his last game as a Penguin?

Postby count2infinity on Fri May 10, 2013 11:38 am

Do they actually still want him??? what?
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Re: Did Fleury play his last game as a Penguin?

Postby Pavel Bure on Fri May 10, 2013 11:40 am

rjb2112 wrote:
tfrizz wrote:
Pavel Bure wrote:Grab Ray Emery in FA and platoon him and Vokoun? Nah. The FA market for goalies is pretty darn bare. Fleury will be here next year.


UFA Goalies, 2013
RFA Goalies, 2013

Very shallow bunch of free agents. The UFA options are pretty well limited to Smith and Emery unless you want to run with two 35+ goalies. The RFA options aren't much better. Rask, Bobrovsky, and Markstrom are going to be re-signed by their respective teams. The only other one worth a shot is Jonathan Bernier, but he's going to garner A LOT of attention.

Even the trade options aren't pretty. The only goalies on the market are Luongo and Miller. Both are headcases in their own right, and both come with a bigger price tag than Fleury.


Smith and Emery are going to cash in big time thanks to the poor selection.

Montreal appears to be an ideal trading partner at this time, sending MAF back home and reuniting him with MT.

Carey Price, they don't need nor want Fleury
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Re: Did Fleury play his last game as a Penguin?

Postby Steve on Fri May 10, 2013 11:42 am

murphydump55 wrote:
DropEmJayBird wrote:If the penguins play as well as they did last night - they won't have a problem with MAF in net.

Some awful rebounds by Vokoun wen't away with a simple clear of the puck by a defenseman. Only 2 shots were deflected toward the net. Traffic was non existent. The penguins got the puck quickly out of their zone and when they did not - they clogged the lanes and kept the isles outside.

It was game 1 all over again - and just like in game 1 - our goalie recorded the shut out. Good things happen when you don't turn the puck over and manage the pucik, bad things happen when you don't.

Vokoun made some great saves on the chances they isles did get, and I remember MAF making similar saves in games 2,3,4. The difference was when those saves were made, the penguins got out of their zone.

I'm an optimist - team plays well then goalie looks good.


Wrong, Vokoun made many saves last night that probably would have gone in if it were the fragile, headcase, Fleury in net. The Pens didn't come out playing really well and Vokoun held them in the game. Fleury would have sunk them by letting in a goal or two. That was the difference, they gained confidence and finally got to their game.

Vokoun also plays the puck and stops dump ins much better than Fleury. Fleury was killing this team with his spaz play and soft goals. It plays on the the players minds and therefore gets them off their game. Vokoun was calm, steady, and didn't spaz out, and this reflected in the play of the rest of the team.


I think if MAF starts this game, we're looking at a 5-4 result that could go either way. Vokoun made some very good scoring chances look very routine, especially early - and the Pens defense became less leaky as the game went on, and that had alot to do with Vokoun I believe.
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Re: Did Fleury play his last game as a Penguin?

Postby mikey287 on Fri May 10, 2013 11:42 am

JoseCuervo wrote:
mikey287 wrote:Now, these don't always work out certainly...but with how goaltending is around the league today, all you have to do is protect them well enough and you'll get results. Most goalies can only strive to have a neutral, or, non-negative, impact on the game and they are considered successful. If we really needed to go that route, I'm confident we could find a capable goaltender. We probably couldn't find the rare goalie that can have a positive impact on the game (Fleury in 2008 and 2009 for instance) but that's not the way the league is heading right now anyway...


Not to be too negative, but are you really that confident? This organization has a pretty bad track record with goalies. Also, you mention all these goalies from Europe, but I'm still not positive that the pens have any scouts over there, yet (half sarcasm, half truth).


Hmm...good point. I got ahead of myself there a little bit, didn't I?

Let me re-phrase: I'm confident, in a vacuum, that a team in a similar situation - with all things being equal - could find a capable replacement if necessary.

You make a pretty good point on both counts. What can we do goalie wise in terms of scouting? What kind of feelers do we have in Europe, I've commented that I believe they are scarce, especially where they are absolutely necessary for finding goalies (Sweden and Finland).

I don't think we have to worry about it though...Fleury isn't going anywhere as it stands right now...
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