Did Fleury play his last game as a Penguin?

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?!?!?!?!?

Fleury's gone
21
20%
At least next season
25
24%
Resign?
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5%
Kittens
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52%
 
Total votes : 106

Re: Did Fleury play his last game as a Penguin?

Postby Idoit40fans on Fri May 10, 2013 10:43 am

AlexPKeaton wrote:
shmenguin wrote:yay, miller! we need another undersized fragile headcase


I'd rather take a chance on Miller, a once top 3 goaltender, over Fleury, who completely and utterly sucks and might be lucky to land a job greeting at Walmart after this playoff.


The sarcasm of that post is perplexing. What makes Miller a headcase? That he speaks his mind during interviews?
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Re: Did Fleury play his last game as a Penguin?

Postby Great58 on Fri May 10, 2013 10:47 am

murphydump55 wrote: Fleury was killing this team with his spaz play and soft goals. It plays on the the players minds and therefore gets them off their game. Vokoun was calm, steady, and didn't spaz out, and this reflected in the play of the rest of the team.

I disagree, I think the team was off it's game way before any soft goals went in in Game 2. They didn't refind their game until last night.

Vokoun starts game 6. If he wins it, he will start game 1 against OTT. Otherwise Fleury plays game 7, and into OTT if we win.
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Re: Did Fleury play his last game as a Penguin?

Postby Steve on Fri May 10, 2013 10:49 am

I think at least for the next season or two, we may just see this year's goalie situation - where you ride MAF in the regular season, and into the playoffs if he's playing well - but you have Vokoun or (hopefully) comparable backup, that's capable of stepping in.

Last year, the Pens had absolutely no chance in the playoffs if we needed to bring in Johnson - I don't think we'll ever see that situation again as long as Shero and MAF are here.
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Re: Did Fleury play his last game as a Penguin?

Postby Idoit40fans on Fri May 10, 2013 10:50 am

Not gonna have a backup as good as Vokoun when he leaves.
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Re: Did Fleury play his last game as a Penguin?

Postby DropEmJayBird on Fri May 10, 2013 10:56 am

murphydump55 wrote:
DropEmJayBird wrote:If the penguins play as well as they did last night - they won't have a problem with MAF in net.

Some awful rebounds by Vokoun wen't away with a simple clear of the puck by a defenseman. Only 2 shots were deflected toward the net. Traffic was non existent. The penguins got the puck quickly out of their zone and when they did not - they clogged the lanes and kept the isles outside.

It was game 1 all over again - and just like in game 1 - our goalie recorded the shut out. Good things happen when you don't turn the puck over and manage the pucik, bad things happen when you don't.

Vokoun made some great saves on the chances they isles did get, and I remember MAF making similar saves in games 2,3,4. The difference was when those saves were made, the penguins got out of their zone.

I'm an optimist - team plays well then goalie looks good.


Wrong, Vokoun made many saves last night that probably would have gone in if it were the fragile, headcase, Fleury in net. The Pens didn't come out playing really well and Vokoun held them in the game. Fleury would have sunk them by letting in a goal or two. That was the difference, they gained confidence and finally got to their game.

Vokoun also plays the puck and stops dump ins much better than Fleury. Fleury was killing this team with his spaz play and soft goals. It plays on the the players minds and therefore gets them off their game. Vokoun was calm, steady, and didn't spaz out, and this reflected in the play of the rest of the team.

[/quote]

I don't buy the "goalie affects team" bit because the islanders sure as hell don't stop when Nabokov lets in a floater. If the team is that mentally weak - we've got a much bigger problem than goalie. Vokoun had a few bad rebounds in the first period - and the penguins cleared them instead of losing the battle in front and falling on Vokoun while he tried to stop said rebounds.... makes a huge difference.

I watched Vokoun play a few pucks right to the islanders last night, the difference between game 4 and game 5 is the penguins defense didn't allow a 80 second cycle shortly after.

When the team **** themselves with Vokoun in the net (See Florida game early this year, see Montreal OT game) he gives up goals just like Fleury does. You play well, the goalies look good, and they look much better when you spend more time down at the other end of the ice.
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Re: Did Fleury play his last game as a Penguin?

Postby Steve on Fri May 10, 2013 10:57 am

We were lucky that Vokoun became available - but I don't believe Shero will enter the postseason with MAF as our starter, and an unreliable/injured Brent Johnson type as our backup - or a backup similar to Johnson's predecessors. (Johnson really dropped off last season)
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Re: Did Fleury play his last game as a Penguin?

Postby tfrizz on Fri May 10, 2013 10:58 am

RxBandit66 wrote:Imagine the Pens are locked up in a late game 7 tie against the Blackhawks (or Sunday against the Isles for that matter). Three minutes are left, an opposing defenseman takes a routine shot from the point, and the puck bounces crazy towards the Pens goal crease. The puck is moving very slowly, and all the goaltender has to do is be in position, track the puck calmly, and cover it up for a faceoff.

Which goalie currently on the Pens roster would make you feel more comfortable in a situation like that, in the heat of the moment?

If the answer to the question is Tomas Vokoun, then he should be the starter until something changes. Hands down. The players may not be saying it outright, but their confidence in Fleury has to be shaky at this point.


Either. Fleury's been fine on anything generated in front of him. The Islanders planned on exploiting his biggest weakness - tracking the puck around or below the goal line - and did so to the fullest possible extent.
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Re: Did Fleury play his last game as a Penguin?

Postby Idoit40fans on Fri May 10, 2013 10:58 am

The islanders are in their first taste of playoff hockey as a team, they could be down 10-0 in the third while down 3-1 in the series and they wouldnt' be affected. The Penguins can't create that attitude for themselves so the goalie playing like crap is affecting them.
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Re: Did Fleury play his last game as a Penguin?

Postby tfrizz on Fri May 10, 2013 11:03 am

Steve wrote:We were lucky that Vokoun became available - but I don't believe Shero will enter the postseason with MAF as our starter, and an unreliable/injured Brent Johnson type as our backup - or a backup similar to Johnson's predecessors. (Johnson really dropped off last season)


He doesn't have to. Fleury is only signed for two more seasons, and Vokoun is signed through next year. That gives him the flexibility to see how next season goes and plan from there. Fleury's value on the market isn't going to get any lower than it is now, so they'll likely have to use a compliance buyout either way. Luckily, the buyouts are available in either 2013 or 2014.

I'm with mikey and the others in thinking that there's very little chance Fleury isn't a Penguin next season, if for no other reason than the lack of an available replacement. Riding out another year (or two, if absolutely necessary) give Shero time to find someone if they've given up on Fleury.
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Re: Did Fleury play his last game as a Penguin?

Postby DropEmJayBird on Fri May 10, 2013 11:03 am

tfrizz wrote:
RxBandit66 wrote:Imagine the Pens are locked up in a late game 7 tie against the Blackhawks (or Sunday against the Isles for that matter). Three minutes are left, an opposing defenseman takes a routine shot from the point, and the puck bounces crazy towards the Pens goal crease. The puck is moving very slowly, and all the goaltender has to do is be in position, track the puck calmly, and cover it up for a faceoff.

Which goalie currently on the Pens roster would make you feel more comfortable in a situation like that, in the heat of the moment?

If the answer to the question is Tomas Vokoun, then he should be the starter until something changes. Hands down. The players may not be saying it outright, but their confidence in Fleury has to be shaky at this point.


Either. Fleury's been fine on anything generated in front of him. The Islanders planned on exploiting his biggest weakness - tracking the puck around or below the goal line - and did so to the fullest possible extent.


I would argue that's not just Fleury's weakness, it's also most goalie's weakness.... and actually probably more so a penguins defense weakness than a goalie weakness. When a team lives all day back there, at some point our goalie stops trusting the defense.
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Re: Did Fleury play his last game as a Penguin?

Postby DontToewsMeBro on Fri May 10, 2013 11:05 am

Idoit40fans wrote:The islanders are in their first taste of playoff hockey as a team, they could be down 10-0 in the third while down 3-1 in the series and they wouldnt' be affected. The Penguins can't create that attitude for themselves so the goalie playing like crap is affecting them.


I agree to a point. The 2nd goal last night was a complete backbreaker for them. You could see it suck the life out of the Islanders. The whole series, they didn't care about Nabokov because they knew they could win if Fleury was worse (which is actually debatable even for the games we lost, sadly). After the 2nd goal the Islanders actually lost some of their composure and got away from what made them successful.

If we can attribute our losses (at least partially) to our poor execution, the Islanders can do the same and we should recognize that.
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Re: Did Fleury play his last game as a Penguin?

Postby tfrizz on Fri May 10, 2013 11:06 am

DropEmJayBird wrote:
tfrizz wrote:
RxBandit66 wrote:Imagine the Pens are locked up in a late game 7 tie against the Blackhawks (or Sunday against the Isles for that matter). Three minutes are left, an opposing defenseman takes a routine shot from the point, and the puck bounces crazy towards the Pens goal crease. The puck is moving very slowly, and all the goaltender has to do is be in position, track the puck calmly, and cover it up for a faceoff.

Which goalie currently on the Pens roster would make you feel more comfortable in a situation like that, in the heat of the moment?

If the answer to the question is Tomas Vokoun, then he should be the starter until something changes. Hands down. The players may not be saying it outright, but their confidence in Fleury has to be shaky at this point.


Either. Fleury's been fine on anything generated in front of him. The Islanders planned on exploiting his biggest weakness - tracking the puck around or below the goal line - and did so to the fullest possible extent.


I would argue that's not just Fleury's weakness, it's also most goalie's weakness.... and actually probably more so a penguins defense weakness than a goalie weakness. When a team lives all day back there, at some point our goalie stops trusting the defense.


You're right, most goalies do have a hard time tracking the puck behind the goal line. I think the problem is that Fleury get's a little too ansty when it's behind him, and that results in some holes that shouldn't be there.
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Re: Did Fleury play his last game as a Penguin?

Postby MalkinIsMyHomeboy on Fri May 10, 2013 2:01 pm

Kittens take a demanding lead
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Re: Did Fleury play his last game as a Penguin?

Postby FLPensFan on Mon May 13, 2013 9:42 am

I don't see trading Fleury or dumping him as an option. It is REALLY HARD to find a franchise goalie. He's still relatively young. Has he struggled in the playoffs since the cup, yes. But he's also been dominate in the regular season. The Pens don't get to where they are in the playoffs without him. He had some god awful games. But he is your #1 goalie, you give him a chance to show that he can shake it off and play the way he's capable of in Round 2. If he struggles again, I'm more inclined to ride Vokoun at that point. You wouldn't bench Malkin for poor play, constant turnovers leading to goals, etc, have Jossi Jokinen play well, and leave Malkin on the bench. Hartzell, Zatkoff, etc I don't see as a long-term solution.

Fleury needs work on his positioning when the puck is behind him, and work on playing the puck out of his net. I thought Vokoun would help because he is pretty solid out of the net, but I haven't seen an improvement there.
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Re: Did Fleury play his last game as a Penguin?

Postby eddiefromirwin on Mon May 13, 2013 9:55 am

I don't see Fleury as a buyout. There are a number of teams that struggle to get to the spending floor that need a goalie. In fact, we just finished a series with one of those teams!
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Re: Did Fleury play his last game as a Penguin?

Postby jwest21 on Mon May 13, 2013 9:56 am

No. Not even his last game this year
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Re: Did Fleury play his last game as a Penguin?

Postby slappybrown on Mon May 13, 2013 9:58 am

FLPensFan wrote:I don't see trading Fleury or dumping him as an option. It is REALLY HARD to find a franchise goalie. He's still relatively young. Has he struggled in the playoffs since the cup, yes. But he's also been dominate in the regular season. The Pens don't get to where they are in the playoffs without him. He had some god awful games. But he is your #1 goalie, you give him a chance to show that he can shake it off and play the way he's capable of in Round 2. If he struggles again, I'm more inclined to ride Vokoun at that point. You wouldn't bench Malkin for poor play, constant turnovers leading to goals, etc, have Jossi Jokinen play well, and leave Malkin on the bench. Hartzell, Zatkoff, etc I don't see as a long-term solution.

Fleury needs work on his positioning when the puck is behind him, and work on playing the puck out of his net. I thought Vokoun would help because he is pretty solid out of the net, but I haven't seen an improvement there.

Fleury has been dominant in the regular season???

I don't think I buy him out, but that's more a function of the market and lack of alternatives (though I obviously can't know the trade market like RS). Every team is stuck with a contract or three they wish they could negotiate down, and I am resigned to the fact that we are paying 5mm for a 2.5mm goalie for the next two years.
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Re: Did Fleury play his last game as a Penguin?

Postby tfrizz on Mon May 13, 2013 9:59 am

eddiefromirwin wrote:I don't see Fleury as a buyout. There are a number of teams that struggle to get to the spending floor that need a goalie. In fact, we just finished a series with one of those teams!


Fleury's modified NTC is a huge sticking point. The condition on it is that he has to provide a list of 8 teams he would accept a trade to, so he can blacklist 21 potential trade partners. It's basically a full NTC given that you can easily list off 8+ teams that have absolutely no interest in him.
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Re: Did Fleury play his last game as a Penguin?

Postby Idoit40fans on Mon May 13, 2013 9:59 am

jwest21 wrote:No. Not even his last game this year


Last game this Spring? Last game until the Fall?
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Re: Did Fleury play his last game as a Penguin?

Postby Idoit40fans on Mon May 13, 2013 10:00 am

tfrizz wrote:
eddiefromirwin wrote:I don't see Fleury as a buyout. There are a number of teams that struggle to get to the spending floor that need a goalie. In fact, we just finished a series with one of those teams!


Fleury's modified NTC is a huge sticking point. The condition on it is that he has to provide a list of 8 teams he would accept a trade to, so he can blacklist 21 potential trade partners. It's basically a full NTC given that you can easily list off 8+ teams that have absolutely no interest in him.


Depends on when that list needed turned in. Before this year, would Buffalo have been a team that had any interest in a goalie?
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Re: Did Fleury play his last game as a Penguin?

Postby tfrizz on Mon May 13, 2013 10:02 am

slappybrown wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:I don't see trading Fleury or dumping him as an option. It is REALLY HARD to find a franchise goalie. He's still relatively young. Has he struggled in the playoffs since the cup, yes. But he's also been dominate in the regular season. The Pens don't get to where they are in the playoffs without him. He had some god awful games. But he is your #1 goalie, you give him a chance to show that he can shake it off and play the way he's capable of in Round 2. If he struggles again, I'm more inclined to ride Vokoun at that point. You wouldn't bench Malkin for poor play, constant turnovers leading to goals, etc, have Jossi Jokinen play well, and leave Malkin on the bench. Hartzell, Zatkoff, etc I don't see as a long-term solution.

Fleury needs work on his positioning when the puck is behind him, and work on playing the puck out of his net. I thought Vokoun would help because he is pretty solid out of the net, but I haven't seen an improvement there.

Fleury has been dominant in the regular season???

I don't think I buy him out, but that's more a function of the market and lack of alternatives (though I obviously can't know the trade market like RS). Every team is stuck with a contract or three they wish they could negotiate down, and I am resigned to the fact that we are paying 5mm for a 2.5mm goalie for the next two years.


Yeah, dominant is a bit strong but he has definitely been above average, even statistically. His $5-million cap hit will slip into the 15th-20th range next season and possibly into the 20th-25th range in 2013-14, so it's hard to argue that he's massively overpaid when goalie contracts are rising very quickly.

On the bright side, if they can and do keep him around they should get him cheap on his next deal - something like 1-2 years at $2.5- to $3-million per year. Find a reliable playoff goalie in the $3- to $4-million range, platoon them in the regular season, and bench Fleury come playoffs.
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Re: Did Fleury play his last game as a Penguin?

Postby slappybrown on Mon May 13, 2013 10:04 am

tfrizz wrote:
slappybrown wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:I don't see trading Fleury or dumping him as an option. It is REALLY HARD to find a franchise goalie. He's still relatively young. Has he struggled in the playoffs since the cup, yes. But he's also been dominate in the regular season. The Pens don't get to where they are in the playoffs without him. He had some god awful games. But he is your #1 goalie, you give him a chance to show that he can shake it off and play the way he's capable of in Round 2. If he struggles again, I'm more inclined to ride Vokoun at that point. You wouldn't bench Malkin for poor play, constant turnovers leading to goals, etc, have Jossi Jokinen play well, and leave Malkin on the bench. Hartzell, Zatkoff, etc I don't see as a long-term solution.

Fleury needs work on his positioning when the puck is behind him, and work on playing the puck out of his net. I thought Vokoun would help because he is pretty solid out of the net, but I haven't seen an improvement there.

Fleury has been dominant in the regular season???

I don't think I buy him out, but that's more a function of the market and lack of alternatives (though I obviously can't know the trade market like RS). Every team is stuck with a contract or three they wish they could negotiate down, and I am resigned to the fact that we are paying 5mm for a 2.5mm goalie for the next two years.


Yeah, dominant is a bit strong but he has definitely been above average, even statistically. His $5-million cap hit will slip into the 15th-20th range next season and possibly into the 20th-25th range in 2013-14, so it's hard to argue that he's massively overpaid when goalie contracts are rising very quickly.

On the bright side, if they can and do keep him around they should get him cheap on his next deal - something like 1-2 years at $2.5- to $3-million per year. Find a reliable playoff goalie in the $3- to $4-million range, platoon them in the regular season, and bench Fleury come playoffs.


lol at your last line

His next contract will be interesting.
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Re: Did Fleury play his last game as a Penguin?

Postby jwest21 on Mon May 13, 2013 10:05 am

Idoit40fans wrote:
jwest21 wrote:No. Not even his last game this Spring


Last game this Spring? Last game until the Fall?

I fixed it. I still think he is back before the playoffs are over.
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Re: Did Fleury play his last game as a Penguin?

Postby tfrizz on Mon May 13, 2013 10:05 am

Idoit40fans wrote:
tfrizz wrote:
eddiefromirwin wrote:I don't see Fleury as a buyout. There are a number of teams that struggle to get to the spending floor that need a goalie. In fact, we just finished a series with one of those teams!


Fleury's modified NTC is a huge sticking point. The condition on it is that he has to provide a list of 8 teams he would accept a trade to, so he can blacklist 21 potential trade partners. It's basically a full NTC given that you can easily list off 8+ teams that have absolutely no interest in him.


Depends on when that list needed turned in. Before this year, would Buffalo have been a team that had any interest in a goalie?


Good point. Nobody knows when the list had to be turned in, or if it's even been turned in yet. But between the NTC and the small list of teams that would be interested in Fleury, it's going to be almost impossible to move him.

I mean, the 5 or 6 teams in need of goaltending are more likely to take a shot on Smith, Emery, Khudobin, or Berner out of free agency; or to trade for Luongo or Miller over Fleury.
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Re: Did Fleury play his last game as a Penguin?

Postby tfrizz on Mon May 13, 2013 10:09 am

slappybrown wrote:
tfrizz wrote:
slappybrown wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:I don't see trading Fleury or dumping him as an option. It is REALLY HARD to find a franchise goalie. He's still relatively young. Has he struggled in the playoffs since the cup, yes. But he's also been dominate in the regular season. The Pens don't get to where they are in the playoffs without him. He had some god awful games. But he is your #1 goalie, you give him a chance to show that he can shake it off and play the way he's capable of in Round 2. If he struggles again, I'm more inclined to ride Vokoun at that point. You wouldn't bench Malkin for poor play, constant turnovers leading to goals, etc, have Jossi Jokinen play well, and leave Malkin on the bench. Hartzell, Zatkoff, etc I don't see as a long-term solution.

Fleury needs work on his positioning when the puck is behind him, and work on playing the puck out of his net. I thought Vokoun would help because he is pretty solid out of the net, but I haven't seen an improvement there.

Fleury has been dominant in the regular season???

I don't think I buy him out, but that's more a function of the market and lack of alternatives (though I obviously can't know the trade market like RS). Every team is stuck with a contract or three they wish they could negotiate down, and I am resigned to the fact that we are paying 5mm for a 2.5mm goalie for the next two years.


Yeah, dominant is a bit strong but he has definitely been above average, even statistically. His $5-million cap hit will slip into the 15th-20th range next season and possibly into the 20th-25th range in 2013-14, so it's hard to argue that he's massively overpaid when goalie contracts are rising very quickly.

On the bright side, if they can and do keep him around they should get him cheap on his next deal - something like 1-2 years at $2.5- to $3-million per year. Find a reliable playoff goalie in the $3- to $4-million range, platoon them in the regular season, and bench Fleury come playoffs.


lol at your last line

His next contract will be interesting.


It won't be that interesting. He's going to get considerably less than his previous contract. That means he'll almost certainly look for a short deal and hope he can increase his value over the course of that contract.

I don't think the platooning idea is that far-fetched, but the big question is going to be whether they'd want Fleury back at a reduced price or not. Though if he signs in that range, he's more likely to wind up in a place like Phoenix where he could play a starting role again.
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