Your the coach w/poll

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Your Dan B. and its time to announce your starting goalie for Game 1 vs Ottawa.

Start Fleury
29
25%
Start Vokoun
88
75%
 
Total votes : 117

Re: Your the coach w/poll

Postby Crankshaft on Mon May 13, 2013 10:43 am

I'm torn between the two. Changing out Fleury for Vokoun was a way to send a message to the team in addition to settling down Fleury. He's your franchise guy. Playing him in game one doesn't have to do with anything about his ego, psyche, or anything else. It's about going to the guy who has the highest talent level. The guy, who despite hasn't played well the last few years, HAS been there before and has had success. In addition, Fleury has had success against Ottawa this year.

I also realize that Vokoun was a stabilizing force the last two games against the Islanders and conventional knowledge would dictate you go with the hot hand. The team also plays better in front of Vokoun, for whatever reason. I'm not worried about him being older and handling the workload. He's been around and knows what to do.

However, I would go with Fleury during game one. You have to win 16 games in a 2 month stretch. Vokoun is the consummate professional. He'll be there when needed. You need both guys to succeed. Starting Vokoun because the team tightens up defensively is just a band aid. To win 3 more series, you need to fix the root issues and fast. This team needs to play well in front of whoever is in goal. They might be able to squeak by an inexperienced Islander team this way, but it won't fly for much longer.

You may disagree, however, that doesn't make people who would go with MAF a troll or immature or "high school" aged.
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Re: Your the coach w/poll

Postby Arlow on Mon May 13, 2013 10:46 am

GSdrums87 wrote:Torn, but I feel Fleury. I know its risky to "experiment" and see if he's ready, but it stands the chance to boost his confidence. What if Vokoun stays in and becomes average, and the other option is a cold and demoralized Fleury? We all know when Fleury gets going, you can ride that train far, but the question is getting coal in the engine.


Why this notion "let's roll with him for game one and see what happens"? I hate the thought of acting like any game in a seven game series doesn't matter and to try an "experiment" in game one by putting him back between the pipes is ridiculous. The Fleury era of roller-coaster play needs to end now.
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Re: Your the coach w/poll

Postby DelPen on Mon May 13, 2013 10:47 am

Did the team really tighten up defensively? Not really, we still gave up a ton of shots, a lot of them quality chances. Vokoun just didn't crap himself when a puck went behind the net and kick them in. Fleury has no business starting a game until Vokoun has a melt down.
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Re: Your the coach w/poll

Postby Crankshaft on Mon May 13, 2013 10:57 am

DelPen wrote:Did the team really tighten up defensively? Not really, we still gave up a ton of shots, a lot of them quality chances. Vokoun just didn't crap himself when a puck went behind the net and kick them in. Fleury has no business starting a game until Vokoun has a melt down.


In game 5 they played completely different than they did the previous 3 games. In game 6, I agree that they loosened up. It's just a weird situation.

My feeling is this. This team, for whatever reason, rebounds when the goalie change is made. If you ride Vokoun to the point where the team craps the bed defensively in front of Vokoun, will they rebound the same way in front of Fleury? My gut feeling is no. That's why I go back to Fleury. Ottawa is a MUCH better match up for this team. Hopefully a quick series will build the confidence across the board where this won't even be an issue anymore.
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Re: Your the coach w/poll

Postby Lt. Dish on Mon May 13, 2013 11:04 am

burghsportsguys wrote:
Gaucho wrote:At this point I have to assume headh is trolling the board.


I'm going with the "still in high school" option.

I was pretty irrational in my support of players back then, too. When you are young, it's all sunshine, rainbows, and ice cream.



If (and again, that's IF) DB starts MAF in game 1 or 2, then brace yourself for the gusts of hot wind of ranters who'll proclaim their fervent hope the Pens lose as penance for a horrific decision with which they don't agree. Rational and mature: right.

So, you know, there's a middle ground, where some of us are going to wait, see what happens, and root for the team regardless.
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Re: Your the coach w/poll

Postby Henry Hank on Mon May 13, 2013 11:05 am

To say they tightened up defensively minimizes Vokoun's performance. Period one of game five was no different from the way the previous few games were going. Game six was perhaps their worst overall performance. Vokoun provided composure that Fleury lacks and helped them avoid meltdowns.

There's simply no reason this has to be Fleury's team. Vokoun is the better goalie right now and there's no long-term commitment to Fleury anymore. If he's as fragile as people here think he is, then they should definitely go all in with Vokoun and look to get rid of Fleury in the offseason. If fragile Fleury can't handle being benched, I don't want him starting the series and potentially putting them behind from the start.
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Re: Your the coach w/poll

Postby slappybrown on Mon May 13, 2013 11:05 am

Who is rooting against the Pens if MAF starts? What???
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Re: Your the coach w/poll

Postby Henry Hank on Mon May 13, 2013 11:14 am

slappybrown wrote:Who is rooting against the Pens if MAF starts? What???


The typical response if you say something critical about the Pens. If you're not full on tunnel vision, black and gold colored glasses, head in the sand then you're obviously just rooting for them to lose so you can be right. Who cares about being right on an anonymous message board? I'd love to be wrong about this team but I'm not going to ignore the obvious.
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Re: Your the coach w/poll

Postby Lt. Dish on Mon May 13, 2013 11:16 am

slappybrown wrote:Who is rooting against the Pens if MAF starts? What???


I was just presenting the other extreme.
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Re: Your the coach w/poll

Postby Lt. Dish on Mon May 13, 2013 11:20 am

Henry Hank wrote:
slappybrown wrote:Who is rooting against the Pens if MAF starts? What???


The typical response if you say something critical about the Pens. If you're not full on tunnel vision, black and gold colored glasses, head in the sand then you're obviously just rooting for them to lose so you can be right. Who cares about being right on an anonymous message board? I'd love to be wrong about this team but I'm not going to ignore the obvious.


I actually don't think my response that there's a middle ground is a typical response to this topic.
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Re: Your the coach w/poll

Postby MRandall25 on Mon May 13, 2013 11:34 am

Tico Rick wrote:I guess we should ignore the fact that our most recent shutout came from Vokoun, after Fleury imploded.


IMO, that shows it doesn't matter who is in net. If the team plays good, solid defense, our goalies can put up shutouts. When the team is bad, the goalies give up goals (bad or otherwise).
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Re: Your the coach w/poll

Postby headh on Mon May 13, 2013 11:41 am

Gaucho wrote:
headh wrote:he had a shutout in the first game. he's a goalie. the thread is about goalies and which one should play.



What about games 2, 3, and 4?


Those three games looked to be very similar to game 6. Fleury stinks sometimes. That's just who he is and adding TV was by design a good plan. TV stinks sometimes also. You need to mentally prepare yourself for a MAF start sooner rather than later.
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Re: Your the coach w/poll

Postby headh on Mon May 13, 2013 11:42 am

MRandall25 wrote:
Tico Rick wrote:I guess we should ignore the fact that our most recent shutout came from Vokoun, after Fleury imploded.


IMO, that shows it doesn't matter who is in net. If the team plays good, solid defense, our goalies can put up shutouts. When the team is bad, the goalies give up goals (bad or otherwise).



This
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Re: Your the coach w/poll

Postby tfrizz on Mon May 13, 2013 11:43 am

Penspal wrote:Even having an option makes me smile. I chose MAF because he's shown higher end top game play. And if you go with MAF early and he's not good, you go to Vokoun like they did last series.


If Fleury is going to get a start against Ottawa, I'd rather it be in Game 1, at home, when a loss doesn't put the team in a big hole rather than having to do it out of necessity.
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Re: Your the coach w/poll

Postby tfrizz on Mon May 13, 2013 11:44 am

slappybrown wrote:Why would you keep starting someone who keeps imploding?


FWIW, Fleury has recorded shutouts in 2 of this last 3 "Game 1"s. Could come in handy :pop:
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Re: Your the coach w/poll

Postby tfrizz on Mon May 13, 2013 11:46 am

Henry Hank wrote:To say they tightened up defensively minimizes Vokoun's performance. Period one of game five was no different from the way the previous few games were going. Game six was perhaps their worst overall performance. Vokoun provided composure that Fleury lacks and helped them avoid meltdowns.

There's simply no reason this has to be Fleury's team. Vokoun is the better goalie right now and there's no long-term commitment to Fleury anymore. If he's as fragile as people here think he is, then they should definitely go all in with Vokoun and look to get rid of Fleury in the offseason. If fragile Fleury can't handle being benched, I don't want him starting the series and potentially putting them behind from the start.


There's nothing to suggest he can't handle being benched. He's done it before, and he'll do it again. My question is how he can solve the glaringly obvious confidence issues without playing. It really doesn't seem possible.
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Re: Your the coach w/poll

Postby Idoit40fans on Mon May 13, 2013 11:49 am

If thats the case, then Zatkoff should be backing up Vokoun.
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Re: Your the coach w/poll

Postby Gaucho on Mon May 13, 2013 11:50 am

Yeah, I guess it's come to the point where the fans, and not the goalie himself, have to be mentally prepared for a MAF start.
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Re: Your the coach w/poll

Postby headh on Mon May 13, 2013 11:55 am

Gaucho wrote:Yeah, I guess it's come to the point where the fans, and not the goalie himself, have to be mentally prepared for a MAF start.



I'd expect him to come back with a very strong showing after getting benched. He typically does just that.

Unfortunately he also deserves a benching from time to time also.
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Re: Your the coach w/poll

Postby Arlow on Mon May 13, 2013 12:01 pm

tfrizz wrote:
Henry Hank wrote:To say they tightened up defensively minimizes Vokoun's performance. Period one of game five was no different from the way the previous few games were going. Game six was perhaps their worst overall performance. Vokoun provided composure that Fleury lacks and helped them avoid meltdowns.

There's simply no reason this has to be Fleury's team. Vokoun is the better goalie right now and there's no long-term commitment to Fleury anymore. If he's as fragile as people here think he is, then they should definitely go all in with Vokoun and look to get rid of Fleury in the offseason. If fragile Fleury can't handle being benched, I don't want him starting the series and potentially putting them behind from the start.


There's nothing to suggest he can't handle being benched. He's done it before, and he'll do it again. My question is how he can solve the glaringly obvious confidence issues without playing. It really doesn't seem possible.


So the playoffs are the time to sort this out? He's had 3 years and 4 games to sort this out since he won the cup and his numbers continue to nosedive.
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Re: Your the coach w/poll

Postby tfrizz on Mon May 13, 2013 12:06 pm

Arlow wrote:
tfrizz wrote:
Henry Hank wrote:To say they tightened up defensively minimizes Vokoun's performance. Period one of game five was no different from the way the previous few games were going. Game six was perhaps their worst overall performance. Vokoun provided composure that Fleury lacks and helped them avoid meltdowns.

There's simply no reason this has to be Fleury's team. Vokoun is the better goalie right now and there's no long-term commitment to Fleury anymore. If he's as fragile as people here think he is, then they should definitely go all in with Vokoun and look to get rid of Fleury in the offseason. If fragile Fleury can't handle being benched, I don't want him starting the series and potentially putting them behind from the start.


There's nothing to suggest he can't handle being benched. He's done it before, and he'll do it again. My question is how he can solve the glaringly obvious confidence issues without playing. It really doesn't seem possible.


So the playoffs are the time to sort this out? He's had 3 years and 4 games to sort this out since he won the cup and his numbers continue to nosedive.


No, they aren't. As I posted in the Fleury thread - you don't fix confidence issues without playing through them, and you don't play through confidence issues in the playoffs.

Problem #2 is that confidence in the regular season != confidence in the playoffs. So no matter how calm and consistent he's been in the regular season - and he has for the past 3 years - it's not going to turn his playoff game around.
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Re: Your the coach w/poll

Postby Scott on Mon May 13, 2013 12:09 pm

start vokoun, but I would play Fleury in game two and take it from there.
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Re: Your the coach w/poll

Postby tfrizz on Mon May 13, 2013 12:12 pm

Scott wrote:start vokoun, but I would play Fleury in game two and take it from there.


I would definitely consider Fleury in Game 2 if they run the Friday/Saturday schedule, but the outcome of Game 1 would heavily impact the amount if consideration I give.
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Re: Your the coach w/poll

Postby Shakes on Mon May 13, 2013 12:30 pm

Interesting that this poll is exactly at 3:1 in favor of Vokoun. I figured it to be a very small group who want to see MAF back, but I guess not.

Game One is tomorrow, so we'll find out soon enough.
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Re: Your the coach w/poll

Postby shmenguin on Mon May 13, 2013 12:50 pm

tfrizz wrote:There's nothing to suggest he can't handle being benched. He's done it before, and he'll do it again. My question is how he can solve the glaringly obvious confidence issues without playing. It really doesn't seem possible.


if he can handle being benched, it means he doesn't need to play to overcome a lack of confidence. if he needs a few warm up games to get his mojo back, it means he can't handle being benched.
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