Can't win the Cup without...

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Can't win the Cup without...

Postby Godric on Sat May 18, 2013 2:31 am

The 3rd and 4th Lines have got to find chemistry and step up.

I'm not talking about even producing offensively but they have to start playing tighter 5 on 5. Every time Sid and Geno come off the ice I think uh-oh here comes a scoring chance for the Sens.
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Re: Can't win the Cup without...

Postby Pavel Bure on Sat May 18, 2013 7:41 am

4th line have been cycling monsters. 3rd line needs Sutter to get back to playing how he should be
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Re: Can't win the Cup without...

Postby Luckybreak on Sat May 18, 2013 7:44 am

I wouldn't diminish the importance of scoring depth should Sid or Geno go cold/get shut down/injured. Sutter looks very different to the guy we saw early in the season, he's been slower and losing pucks off his stick with regularity. Vitale and TK's speed looks good on the 4th, they are getting in, applying pressure and hitting... then Adams catches up. I don't expect any changes as long as they are winning, but if HCDB had a seizure and scratched Adams I'd try:

Morrow-Sutter-Jokinen
Cooke-Vitale-Kennedy

At least Cooke could keep pace with the pocket rockets and perhaps JJ could get Sutter out of his slump?
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Re: Can't win the Cup without...

Postby pens_CT on Sat May 18, 2013 7:59 am

They need some offensive contributions from the bottom six, but better puck procession and cycling is the most important part of the games from those guys.

Just play smarter with the puck. Multiple breakaways against you might work against Ottawa, but you will not get away with it in later rounds.

We need someone with mobility to step up on the third d-pairing to play with Murray. It can't be Engelland, should really be Niskanen with someone else playing with Letang. If there is any issue that is going to kill us in later rounds, I think its this one.
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Re: Can't win the Cup without...

Postby Pavel Bure on Sat May 18, 2013 8:34 am

pens_CT wrote:They need some offensive contributions from the bottom six, but better puck procession and cycling is the most important part of the games from those guys.

Just play smarter with the puck. Multiple breakaways against you might work against Ottawa, but you will not get away with it in later rounds.

We need someone with mobility to step up on the third d-pairing to play with Murray. It can't be Engelland, should really be Niskanen with someone else playing with Letang. If there is any issue that is going to kill us in later rounds, I think its this one.

Agree on the D. If Engo is in there to police Neil he's doing a terrible job.
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Re: Can't win the Cup without...

Postby meow on Sat May 18, 2013 8:36 am

Engelland always seems to find Neil. That little game within the game has been entertaining.
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Re: Can't win the Cup without...

Postby ExPatriatePen on Sat May 18, 2013 8:45 am

The last two posts (back to back) had me going LULZ Wut?

I don't have my own opinion on Engelland v. Neil, but you can bet I'll be watching it closer now. :)
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Re: Can't win the Cup without...

Postby Jesse on Sat May 18, 2013 9:17 am

Um, Matt Cooke and Craig Adams haven't been on the ice for a single even strength goal against in the playoffs.

Brandon Sutter has been on the ice for 1 even strength goal against in the playoffs.

Also, Sutter/Cooke are among the team leaders in shots against per 60 minutes of time at even strength. The same is true of Vitale/Kennedy despite the small sample size.

So, I think they're doing fairly well. This is probably the last thing I am concerned about, in fact.

When the third line of Morrow/Sutter/Cooke aren't on the ice, the Penguins get scored on at a pace of about 4 more goals per 60 minutes of even strength hockey than they do when they're on the ice.
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Re: Can't win the Cup without...

Postby shmenguin on Sat May 18, 2013 9:34 am

There's nothing to complain about with that 4th line. Even though Adams is lousy, whatever they're doing is working.

The 3rd line is defense only. We're still scoring 4+ goals per game, so I'm ok with that for now. Sutter had his first good game of the playoffs last night despite being his typical ghost, offensively. he made some clutch plays on D.
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Re: Can't win the Cup without...

Postby SoCalPenguin on Sat May 18, 2013 10:49 am

I thought this thread would be about Mark Eaton
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Re: Can't win the Cup without...

Postby Luckybreak on Sat May 18, 2013 11:34 am

Jesse wrote:Um, Matt Cooke and Craig Adams haven't been on the ice for a single even strength goal against in the playoffs.

Brandon Sutter has been on the ice for 1 even strength goal against in the playoffs.

Also, Sutter/Cooke are among the team leaders in shots against per 60 minutes of time at even strength. The same is true of Vitale/Kennedy despite the small sample size.

So, I think they're doing fairly well. This is probably the last thing I am concerned about, in fact.

When the third line of Morrow/Sutter/Cooke aren't on the ice, the Penguins get scored on at a pace of about 4 more goals per 60 minutes of even strength hockey than they do when they're on the ice.


That's the key Jesse, the bottom six have been so sound defensively not to warrant any changes. The lines I suggested might generate some secondary scoring (should it be needed) and wouldn't be a liability defensively, but I guess if it ain't broke don't fix it!
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Re: Can't win the Cup without...

Postby RxBandit66 on Sat May 18, 2013 12:15 pm

Other than Sutter and Adams being painfully slow, they've done a good job overall IMO. In fact, has the entire bottom 6 even allowed a goal at even strength in the playoffs? Cooke hasn't been on te scoresheet much, but he's been a monster, and he actually seems to be drawing more penalties than he's taking.

Secondary scoring in the playoffs is all about timely goals. The Kennedy goal was huge last series. Getting a goal from Murray in the 3rd period of the game 3 overtime win against the Isles was huge, and then obviously the Orpik goal closed the series out. Vitale got a huge helper on the Dupuis goal last series, and Bennett scored the series opener against the Isles.

Obviously Sid and Geno are racking up points, but the bottom 6 plus unexpected defensive scoring has really been a factor thus far. That's how Cups are won. In 1991, Randy Gilhen had that huge goal. In 1992, the Muskegeon line stepped in and played well. In 2009, goals from Eaton vs. Philly and Boucher against Carolina were huge moments in those series.
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Re: Can't win the Cup without...

Postby Getting To My Game on Sat May 18, 2013 12:40 pm

The 3rd and 4th lines don't need to score all the time, just at the right times. I'm sure we'll see a huge goal from Sutter ot Cooke before the story is written about the 2013 playoffs.
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Re: Can't win the Cup without...

Postby Hawkeynut on Sat May 18, 2013 8:58 pm

Only think I am concerned about with the 3rd/4th line is the fact the Morrow falls just about every shift. Can this guy NOT stay on his skates? lol

Hasn't cost us yet, but that guy falls faster than a virgin on prom night.
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Re: Can't win the Cup without...

Postby sil on Sat May 18, 2013 9:24 pm

We got a huge goal from Sutter to give us the lead in game 4 against the Islanders...and then MAF and Geno teamed up to cost us that game. :?
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Re: Can't win the Cup without...

Postby She'sTheFastest on Sat May 18, 2013 9:41 pm

Can't win the cup without.... hockey sticks. :pop:
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Re: Can't win the Cup without...

Postby MRandall25 on Sat May 18, 2013 10:09 pm

Hawkeynut wrote:Only think I am concerned about with the 3rd/4th line is the fact the Morrow falls just about every shift. Can this guy NOT stay on his skates? lol

Hasn't cost us yet, but that guy falls faster than a virgin on prom night.


I disagree, a little. I think he's one of the strongest on his skates when he's working behind the net. The way he's able to maintain balance and also throw hits while carrying the puck is a great skill for the 3rd line.
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Re: Can't win the Cup without...

Postby Desiato on Sat May 18, 2013 10:57 pm

On the other hand, Malkin, Neal and Iginla are a combined -2 while Sutter, Cooke and Kennedy are a combined +8. They may not be scoring a lot, but they're winning their battles.

Additionally, with the top six scoring so proficiently thus far, I think the bottom six have been more focused on better shutting down the opposition.
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Re: Can't win the Cup without...

Postby thepittman on Sun May 19, 2013 12:30 am

scotch and bourbon
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Re: Can't win the Cup without...

Postby Digitalgypsy66 on Sun May 19, 2013 9:03 am

....without a Czech on the roster.
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Re: Can't win the Cup without...

Postby The Snapshot on Sun May 19, 2013 9:25 am

Everyone making their own contribution. It's not all goals and assists. In a Cup run, over the course of 4 series, everyone will do something that matters.

Beau Bennett scored the first goal of these playoffs and may not play again. His goal MATTERED though, because while we regressed and struggled with the Isles in 2 of 4 wins, that goal lit the fuse on a pretty sound beating. It also helped release the pressure valve after years of playoff disappointment.

Vitale has made an impact without scoring a goal.

Everybody that gets a sweater will need to do what they do, and some will be able to do more because of circumstance.
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Re: Can't win the Cup without...

Postby bhaw on Sun May 19, 2013 10:27 am

A lot of talk about Sutter. He's doing his job. He's not letting the other team score when his line is out there. His line isn't scoring either, but he's been an even +/- including the 6-4 abomination in Game 4.
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Re: Can't win the Cup without...

Postby Sarcastic on Sun May 19, 2013 10:32 am

I would like to see Jokinen at some point. :?
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Re: Can't win the Cup without...

Postby ScottishPenguin on Sun May 19, 2013 12:41 pm

This idea that you need scoring contributions from your bottom 6 is predicated on not having a top 6 that looks like ours. Generally speaking it seems like Penguins fans lust after goals. We put 26 past the Flyers last year but apparently lost because we weren't scoring enough. We've scored at least four goals in seven of our eight playoff games this year but Matt Cooke doesn't have a goal yet so we might as well give up. We've led the league in scoring for the last two years. This team does not have a problem scoring goals.

We are, however, a decidedly average team in terms of goals against. If our third and fourth lines are maintaining possession of the puck, keeping the other team off the scoreboard and generally grinding them down, then they're doing their job. Any goals they happen to produce is a bonus.
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Re: Can't win the Cup without...

Postby slappybrown on Mon May 20, 2013 2:08 pm

I'm just glad the continuation of the subject line statement wasn't "Can't win the Cup without MAF getting back in there." Because that is a thing that people are saying.
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