Bylsma can't win with this roster?

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Re: Bylsma can't win with this roster?

Postby nhl94 on Wed Jun 05, 2013 11:33 am

Idoit40fans wrote:
nhl94 wrote:can you please tell me how you can get a RBI while playing defense in baseball?


you go down 0-2 in the count with the bases loaded, foul 3 pitches off, take a ball, foul 2 pitches off, take a ball, take another ball, foul a pitch off, ball 4, run scores, RBI because you protected the plate. You weren't playing a defensive position at the time but you were definitely playing defensively.


or you can intentionally walk a slugger as a defensive strategy...we aren't talking about strategic moves here...

You can admit it when you are wrong instead of giving retarded examples
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Re: Bylsma can't win with this roster?

Postby pfim on Wed Jun 05, 2013 11:34 am

I like where this is going.

The guy was given a role, he hasn't fulfilled it.
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Re: Bylsma can't win with this roster?

Postby Idoit40fans on Wed Jun 05, 2013 11:35 am

nhl94 wrote:
Idoit40fans wrote:
nhl94 wrote:can you please tell me how you can get a RBI while playing defense in baseball?


you go down 0-2 in the count with the bases loaded, foul 3 pitches off, take a ball, foul 2 pitches off, take a ball, take another ball, foul a pitch off, ball 4, run scores, RBI because you protected the plate. You weren't playing a defensive position at the time but you were definitely playing defensively.


or you can intentionally walk a slugger as a defensive strategy...we aren't talking about strategic moves here...

You can admit it when you are wrong instead of giving retarded examples


Please elaborate, I'm not fully following you.
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Re: Bylsma can't win with this roster?

Postby BurghersAndDogsSports on Wed Jun 05, 2013 11:36 am

ScottishPenguin wrote:
Defence21 wrote:And, if you think hockey is so much more complex than baseball, you certainly don't watch enough baseball to be making that comment.


Well, I don't watch baseball, so indulge me. Please explain how baseball is as complex a sport as hockey.


Not that I want to get into this argument as it turned to baseballl. But I was a dominating LF and part time defensive CF back in my day. I couldn't play RF to save my life. I could run down any ball hit and track it perfectly, except RF never got used too the slice.

I agree they Iginla is out of position but there is no way a move from LW to RW should make you absolutely terrible.
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Re: Bylsma can't win with this roster?

Postby Idoit40fans on Wed Jun 05, 2013 11:37 am

BurghersAndDogsSports wrote:
ScottishPenguin wrote:
Defence21 wrote:And, if you think hockey is so much more complex than baseball, you certainly don't watch enough baseball to be making that comment.


Well, I don't watch baseball, so indulge me. Please explain how baseball is as complex a sport as hockey.


Not that I want to get into this argument as it turned to baseballl. But I was a dominating LF and part time defensive CF back in my day. I couldn't play RF to save my life. I could run down any ball hit and track it perfectly, except RF never got used too the slice.

I agree they Iginla is out of position but there is no way a move from LW to RW should make you absolutely terrible.


Probably had a weak arm too. :pop:
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Re: Bylsma can't win with this roster?

Postby nhl94 on Wed Jun 05, 2013 11:39 am

Idoit40fans wrote:
nhl94 wrote:
Idoit40fans wrote:
nhl94 wrote:can you please tell me how you can get a RBI while playing defense in baseball?


you go down 0-2 in the count with the bases loaded, foul 3 pitches off, take a ball, foul 2 pitches off, take a ball, take another ball, foul a pitch off, ball 4, run scores, RBI because you protected the plate. You weren't playing a defensive position at the time but you were definitely playing defensively.


or you can intentionally walk a slugger as a defensive strategy...we aren't talking about strategic moves here...

You can admit it when you are wrong instead of giving retarded examples


Please elaborate, I'm not fully following you.


btw, you compared defensively while you are in offense. Can you play offensively while your team is pitching? Your counterarguments are completely wrong.
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Re: Bylsma can't win with this roster?

Postby BurghersAndDogsSports on Wed Jun 05, 2013 11:42 am

Idoit40fans wrote:
BurghersAndDogsSports wrote:
ScottishPenguin wrote:
Defence21 wrote:And, if you think hockey is so much more complex than baseball, you certainly don't watch enough baseball to be making that comment.


Well, I don't watch baseball, so indulge me. Please explain how baseball is as complex a sport as hockey.


Not that I want to get into this argument as it turned to baseballl. But I was a dominating LF and part time defensive CF back in my day. I couldn't play RF to save my life. I could run down any ball hit and track it perfectly, except RF never got used too the slice.

I agree they Iginla is out of position but there is no way a move from LW to RW should make you absolutely terrible.


Probably had a weak arm too. :pop:


Actually average arm from the outfield but good arm for an infielder when I played there. Man, now that I am writing about it baseball IS complex! :scared:
Last edited by BurghersAndDogsSports on Wed Jun 05, 2013 11:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Bylsma can't win with this roster?

Postby Idoit40fans on Wed Jun 05, 2013 11:42 am

I disagree with you, I think they are perfectly apt considering you started an apples to oranges comparison.
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Re: Bylsma can't win with this roster?

Postby Defence21 on Wed Jun 05, 2013 11:43 am

pfim wrote:I like where this is going.

The guy was given a role, he hasn't fulfilled it.

Thank you. It's not that hard to understand. All the comparisons are loose and too many are trying to make them out to be literal and exact.
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Re: Bylsma can't win with this roster?

Postby nhl94 on Wed Jun 05, 2013 11:50 am

Idoit40fans wrote:I disagree with you, I think they are perfectly apt considering you started an apples to oranges comparison.


you led me to try to find something i thought you could understand by pointing to another sport as an example. How else can i illustrate that someone who was born right-handed will probably not play his best in the left side, especially if he played right side his whole life. You apparently couldn't grasp that even though you claimed to played sports...
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Re: Bylsma can't win with this roster?

Postby nhl94 on Wed Jun 05, 2013 11:54 am

BurghersAndDogsSports wrote:
Idoit40fans wrote:
BurghersAndDogsSports wrote:
ScottishPenguin wrote:
Defence21 wrote:And, if you think hockey is so much more complex than baseball, you certainly don't watch enough baseball to be making that comment.


Well, I don't watch baseball, so indulge me. Please explain how baseball is as complex a sport as hockey.


Not that I want to get into this argument as it turned to baseballl. But I was a dominating LF and part time defensive CF back in my day. I couldn't play RF to save my life. I could run down any ball hit and track it perfectly, except RF never got used too the slice.

I agree they Iginla is out of position but there is no way a move from LW to RW should make you absolutely terrible.


Probably had a weak arm too. :pop:


Actually average arm from the outfield but good arm for an infielder when I played there. Man, now that I am writing about it baseball IS complex! :scared:


http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/sportSkills

go figure =) remember to read the columns to see what was analyzed - it's not just comparing which is tougher as in drawing blood, but overall skills involved...
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Re: Bylsma can't win with this roster?

Postby Idoit40fans on Wed Jun 05, 2013 11:54 am

That is a difficult thing to explain considering how many people play on their off wing. I can't grasp a multi million dollar player's inability to put forth effort at one position over the other when I spent my life paying to play sports and would give everything I had no matter which side of the ice/field/court I was on. And you aren't "locked" into one side of the ice when you take on a position...especially with Malkin as your center who comes down the left wing more often than not.
Last edited by Idoit40fans on Wed Jun 05, 2013 11:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Bylsma can't win with this roster?

Postby Sarcastic on Wed Jun 05, 2013 11:56 am

In an article at penguinslive I read last night it was suggested Pens should stick him on the right on line 3, along with morrow on left and jokinen in the middle. They could bring Bennet and put him back with Malkin. Any opinion on such setup against the Bruins?
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Re: Bylsma can't win with this roster?

Postby pfim on Wed Jun 05, 2013 11:58 am

Sarcastic wrote:In an article at penguinslive I read last night it was suggested Pens should stick him on the right on line 3, along with morrow on left and jokinen in the middle. They could bring Bennet and put him back with Malkin. Any opinion on such setup against the Bruins?


Defensive nightmare for the Pens imo. Not sure how Sutter would look with those two, but Jokinen looks like he's skating in mud.
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Re: Bylsma can't win with this roster?

Postby nhl94 on Wed Jun 05, 2013 12:14 pm

Idoit40fans wrote:That is a difficult thing to explain considering how many people play on their off wing. I can't grasp a multi million dollar player's inability to put forth effort at one position over the other when I spent my life paying to play sports and would give everything I had no matter which side of the ice/field/court I was on. And you aren't "locked" into one side of the ice when you take on a position...especially with Malkin as your center who comes down the left wing more often than not.


There is a difference between giving your 100% and not playing 100% while giving your 100% due to situational reasons like not playing your normal position that you practiced for maybe more than half your life...
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Re: Bylsma can't win with this roster?

Postby MayIsForHockey on Wed Jun 05, 2013 12:19 pm

nhl94 wrote:http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/sportSkills

go figure =) remember to read the columns to see what was analyzed - it's not just comparing which is tougher as in drawing blood, but overall skills involved...

That chart is absurd. It lumps baseball & softball together. That's maybe reasonable if you ignore pitching, hitting and stealing. To compound that absurdity, they define hand-eye coordination as:

HAND-EYE COORDINATION: The ability to react quickly to sensory perception. Example: A hitter reacting to a breaking pitch; a drag racer timing acceleration to the green light.

There's no doubt that hockey is harder to master than baseball, in general. Playing on ice tends to make the whole thing a bit more difficult. However, this apples-vs-oranges argument was about moving from one wing to the other - not which sport is harder to master. While you can make good points about the difficulty of hockey, you're basically arguing that changing sides is so difficult for a forward (due to hockey's complexity) that Iginla shouldn't be asked to do it.

For what it's worth, I think it's probably fair to say that hockey forwards change positions pretty frequently - more than almost every other position in professional sports. So, it's rather difficult to comprehend the argument that making the change is excessively complex.
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Re: Bylsma can't win with this roster?

Postby nhl94 on Wed Jun 05, 2013 12:26 pm

MayIsForHockey wrote:
nhl94 wrote:http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/sportSkills

go figure =) remember to read the columns to see what was analyzed - it's not just comparing which is tougher as in drawing blood, but overall skills involved...

That chart is absurd. It lumps baseball & softball together. That's maybe reasonable if you ignore pitching, hitting and stealing. To compound that absurdity, they define hand-eye coordination as:

HAND-EYE COORDINATION: The ability to react quickly to sensory perception. Example: A hitter reacting to a breaking pitch; a drag racer timing acceleration to the green light.

There's no doubt that hockey is harder to master than baseball, in general. Playing on ice tends to make the whole thing a bit more difficult. However, this apples-vs-oranges argument was about moving from one wing to the other - not which sport is harder to master. While you can make good points about the difficulty of hockey, you're basically arguing that changing sides is so difficult for a forward (due to hockey's complexity) that Iginla shouldn't be asked to do it.

For what it's worth, I think it's probably fair to say that hockey forwards change positions pretty frequently - more than almost every other position in professional sports. So, it's rather difficult to comprehend the argument that making the change is excessively complex.


the whole reason baseball came up was just to point what happens to a right hand hitter decides to try batting left. Maybe that is a tougher situation than a hockey winger playing the wrong wing, but it does make a difference as well.
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Re: Bylsma can't win with this roster?

Postby Desiato on Wed Jun 05, 2013 12:27 pm

I think RW to LW is less of an adaptation than from Franchise Player to 3rd option on his line. Playing with Malkin and Neal requires deference, dirty work, and extra attention to defense; something he's really struggled with.

That's why I've always wanted to see him on the 3rd line, where other guys would play around him, and cover him defensively.

If he does move up to Sid's line, it cannot be in the same role as the 2nd line or the results will be the same. Someone would need to cover for he and Sid defensively and be the 3rd option; and more importantly, accept that role and play it well.

I think Iginla has more than lived up to reasonable expectations. He wasn't the player he used to be well before the Pens traded for him. The reason why is obvious.
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Re: Bylsma can't win with this roster?

Postby pens9192 on Wed Jun 05, 2013 1:23 pm

The Pens at times (like now) remind me of a company that is losing money. Instead of looking for ways to cut unnecessary expenses while trying to improve their business, they just spin their wheels in the mud doing the same things over and over and spend away while not really improving. Then one day the company goes bankrupt or out of business and they wonder, "What happened? Well, maybe we didn't try enough and never got to our processes".

Apply that to the Pens. They keep trying to "play their game" when it is apparently not working and then making the same mistakes *cough* Letang *cough* while saying the same things "Got to get to our game". Hopefully for the Pens they aren't saying, "What happened?" a week from now.
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Re: Bylsma can't win with this roster?

Postby ScottishPenguin on Wed Jun 05, 2013 1:42 pm

Defence21 wrote:
ScottishPenguin wrote:
Defence21 wrote:And, if you think hockey is so much more complex than baseball, you certainly don't watch enough baseball to be making that comment.


Well, I don't watch baseball, so indulge me. Please explain how baseball is as complex a sport as hockey.

In hockey you're receiving passes, playing the boards, and shooting from different perspectives at different positions. Depending on the way you carry your stick, moving from left to right (or vice versa) wing can be tricky to adjust to. The exact same is the case in baseball. If you're a third baseman moving to shortstop, your range better increase significantly. No longer can you rely on doing your primary fielding to your right, but now you're fielding an area that spans second to third base, must know how to cover the bag and tag players appropriately, must be able to turn and throw immediately after fielding, and the list goes on.


Okay, so, in essence, what you're saying is that the roles in baseball are more specialised, whereas in hockey there is a broader skillset which is (ideally) common to all players? Valid observation when arguing a needless analogy within the confines of a debate on which wing to play our career HOF right winger on (which is how we got here), but I'm far from convinced that this makes baseball the more complex sport. Hockey to me is a far more dynamic game, where the play develops and players must be constantly reacting to those developments while attempting to impose their will on the game. Baseball is a series of set pieces, in which the pitcher has a small, limited number of options available to him, and the batter need only determine which has been selected in order to swing his hittin' thing such as to contact the ball. I would suggest that hockey is the more complex sport, but that says nothing of the difficulty of the sports, nor the skill of the players involved.

Oh, and since you don't watch baseball, you'll be interested to know that in this sport, you are charged with hitting a small ball coming at you at 90-100 MPH with a thin piece of wood. Oh, and the ball isn't coming where you want it to. It's dipping, diving, curving, changing speeds, etc. Try shooting a one-timer with similar type passes.


In my country we have rounders. It is a game not dissimilar to your baseball, except it is played by small girls who don't take steroids.

I feel obliged to mention that I played cricket in my youth. The cricket ball is both harder and heavier than a baseball and is hemispherical, granting the bowler greater control over swing (which I understand to be synonymous with your curve). It has a pronounced seam and is generally delivered into the pitch, so not only does the batsman have to deal with changes in flight, he must also account for bounce and spin. Oh, and the bowler is perfectly entitled to aim at whatever he desires - including your head - without penalty. I'll grant you that a cricket bat is wider than a baseball bat, and it has the good graces to be flat rather than rounded, but that's not much consolation when you take a bouncer to the throat.

Might have wandered off topic a bit here. Iginla should quite obviously be playing on Crosby's right wing, and I've yet to hear anyone except Disco express an opinion to the contrary.
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Re: Bylsma can't win with this roster?

Postby bh on Wed Jun 05, 2013 1:43 pm

HCDB could win with this roster. He needs to prove that he can come up with a solution to the Bruins trap. We NEED to score the first goal and if we don't, we need to be patient. We got decimated after Boston got up on us becuase they just waited until they had a good chance the other way and capitalized. We can't give those types of chances. We'll need to muck it up and get a dirty goal if we get behind. High flying Penguins hockey will not work against this system.
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Re: Bylsma can't win with this roster?

Postby eddiefromirwin on Wed Jun 05, 2013 1:44 pm

I would have hoped that Shero and HCDB would have had a plan for Iginla before acquiring him. I would have also hoped that their plan did not include playing him out of position. Learning the system, the surroundings and meeting new teammates is one thing. Playing him out of position is just not right, and will go down as one of the major failings in this postseason.
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Re: Bylsma can't win with this roster?

Postby Lt. Dish on Wed Jun 05, 2013 1:47 pm

Idoit40fans wrote:
BurghersAndDogsSports wrote:
ScottishPenguin wrote:
Defence21 wrote:And, if you think hockey is so much more complex than baseball, you certainly don't watch enough baseball to be making that comment.


Well, I don't watch baseball, so indulge me. Please explain how baseball is as complex a sport as hockey.


Not that I want to get into this argument as it turned to baseballl. But I was a dominating LF and part time defensive CF back in my day. I couldn't play RF to save my life. I could run down any ball hit and track it perfectly, except RF never got used too the slice.

I agree they Iginla is out of position but there is no way a move from LW to RW should make you absolutely terrible.


Probably had a weak arm too. :pop:


Leave Barry Bonds out of this. :wink:
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Re: Bylsma can't win with this roster?

Postby bh on Wed Jun 05, 2013 1:50 pm

Iginla is not why we are losing in such bad fasion.
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Re: Bylsma can't win with this roster?

Postby Idoit40fans on Wed Jun 05, 2013 1:51 pm

bh wrote:Iginla is not why we are losing in such bad fasion.


Its not Iginla, its Bylsma's use of Iginla!
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