'13 Playoffs Game 2 vs Bos - Thoughts from the Morning After

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Re: '13 Playoffs Game 2 vs Bos - Thoughts from the Morning A

Postby Bioshock on Tue Jun 04, 2013 9:11 am

-This team is done. The dynamic of this franchise isn't one that you can win with anymore.
-What i mean by my previous statement is every year this team needs veteran leadership and melts down easily. The players are at fault and need removed.
-Fleury is done as the goalie here in Pittsburgh. You could see it in his body language last night and on that first shot. He is just mentally gone. Toast.
-The coaching staff is at fault (Again) for not having this team prepared or having them play defense properly.
-The players are at fault for not even remotely executing the gameplan laid out by the coaching staff. It's not completely Bylsma's fault that Letang, Crosby, Neal, Iginla and Kunitz are all MIA. Bylsma doesn't tell Letang to completely go rouge for whole periods at a time.

Long story short, no one escapes blame. I think the players are toxic, the goalie is dead and the coaching staffs' message has been tuned out.

I get mad, furious even with Bylsma and some of his decisions, but these meltdowns against the Flyers and Bruins are more on the players than the coaches. I'm not saying Bylsma shouldn't be fired, I'm just saying that don't be surprised if this kind of crap continues under a new regime if they decide to keep the same core of guys.

I wish i was over reacting and i pray i'm wrong on every account and the Pens redeem themselves in the next week but there is nothing, absolutely nothing that gives me hope that they can turn it around.
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Re: '13 Playoffs Game 2 vs Bos - Thoughts from the Morning A

Postby MarioLives on Tue Jun 04, 2013 9:13 am

One more thing... Why do we care so much? It is a blessing and a curse. When they win it feels so good, when the lose, it sucks! We are so lucky to have been blessed with the best players ever, but I just want more
Cups!!
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Re: '13 Playoffs Game 2 vs Bos - Thoughts from the Morning A

Postby pfim on Tue Jun 04, 2013 9:16 am

Just seems like every time the Pens go out of their way to finish a check it doesn't faze the Bruins. I don't think the Pens are an overly physical team and they seem to get off their game when they are.

You could make a case that 87 was the worst skater on the ice last night. That can't happen if the Pens want to have any chance.

Really can't say that anyone played well in this game. Tired of seeing 12 clog up the second line and generally being clueless in the defensive zone while Neal is playing on the left on Malkin's backhand. Tired of seeing 58 and 2 continually turn the puck over. Tired of seeing 7 puck-watching in front of his net. Jokinen looks like he's carrying a piano on his back. Time to bring some speed (48) and skill (19) back into the lineup.
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Re: '13 Playoffs Game 2 vs Bos - Thoughts from the Morning A

Postby murphydump55 on Tue Jun 04, 2013 9:16 am

Gaucho wrote:Pens win: talent

Pens lose: coaching

*shrug*


When the Pens lose, they lose bad. It's usually a game where they look completely lost, have no puck possession and end up chasing the other team all night long looking like an AHL team.

That is coaching. That is systems. Last night was a combination of every player having an off night, while also being severely outcoached along the way.
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Re: '13 Playoffs Game 2 vs Bos - Thoughts from the Morning A

Postby Dickie Dunn on Tue Jun 04, 2013 9:20 am

The Pens refuse to play playoff hockey. Simple, fundamental hockey. Greatest show on ice, high flying trapeze act, finesse hockey does not work in the playoffs. After the first goal the Penguins dominated offensive zone time for the next 10 minutes but generated few chances and ever fewer shots on goal because to them the perfect pass is more enticing than a shot towards the net. Twenty turnovers in two games compared to three for the Bruins. Keep it simple stupid.

I have zero confidence in Fleury.

Letang was awful and quite frankly looked like a moron who had never played defense before. http://www.mitchkorn.com/defensemanschools.html Should be a big help for next season.

Can't help but wonder how Letang would look if he was paired with Despres. Unfortunately, Disco Dan's complete lack of trust in a talented young defenseman who is easily one of the six best defenseman on the roster continues to hurt the team. Why do Despres' mistakes carry so much weight when the other 7 defenseman make the same rookie mistakes on a nightly basis, with your superstar being the biggest culprit?

9-87-12
14-71-18
24-16-19
27-46-48

44-7
58-47
2-3

92
29

Do it and win, don't do it and lose and I can move on to watching the Pirates' summer collapse.
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Re: '13 Playoffs Game 2 vs Bos - Thoughts from the Morning A

Postby bdevido on Tue Jun 04, 2013 9:22 am

when both teams have an equal amount of time to prepare for each other it comes down to one thing: coaching. bylsma should be fired if they lose this series, and as of now, they aren't losing they are getting humiliated.
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Re: '13 Playoffs Game 2 vs Bos - Thoughts from the Morning A

Postby PAPLine on Tue Jun 04, 2013 9:25 am

My sense from last night is that there is enough blame to go around. The Penguins were out coached (Julien's line matching was flawless), they were out played (read everyone) they were out hustled (how many 50/50 pucks did we come up with, and how many penalties did we draw) and generally looked like they thought they should win just by showing up.
Noone really stuck out as playing well. The "big guns," Crosby, Malkin, Neal, Kunitz, Iginla, Dupuis, Letang were all silenced by the the B's defense, not just d-men but forwards as well.
It seemed to me that every time we started a rush, we ended up taking a shot from the boards which usually got blocked before it got anywhere near the net. No rebounds to speak of and no good shots from the slot. We need to change our offecsive philosophy or the B's will eat us up.
Note to Pens15, you are correct. When the other team is defensively oriented, and knows what you are trying to do, they they can clog up the middle and give you the outside shot. We, Bylsma, hasn't figured that out yet. If he doesn't figure it out soon, we have played our last home game of the year.
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Re: '13 Playoffs Game 2 vs Bos - Thoughts from the Morning A

Postby iWonTheCup87 on Tue Jun 04, 2013 9:29 am

what is there to really say? They were awful and even though the Bruins didnt do much after the first besides sit back and trap, the Pens got almost nothing going all game.

All I know is game 3 will tell you if they have given up or they are willing to fight and get back in this.
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Re: '13 Playoffs Game 2 vs Bos - Thoughts from the Morning A

Postby since1970 on Tue Jun 04, 2013 9:34 am

.....why can't we give Boston credit right now? They've come out with resolve and purpose, and it's obvious their coaching staff did their homework and took the blueprint the Islanders gave them and with better talent are making the Penguins look very bad. I wonder about our staff?? Did they not see teams would take this approach and have some sort of plan to counter other than running the same system that execpt for vastly inferior talent almost lost you the first round. Talent can win out in a lot of instances, especially against teams like the Isles/Sens due to a huge advantage, but when the talent gap closes that's when coaching comes into play, and if your X/O guys aren't as good as theirs, this is usually what happens.
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Re: '13 Playoffs Game 2 vs Bos - Thoughts from the Morning A

Postby Dickie Dunn on Tue Jun 04, 2013 9:37 am

burghsportsguys wrote:
DelPen wrote:9-87-14
19-71-18
10-36-12
24-16-46

Can't hurt.


Jokinen has been painful in the playoffs. He has to sit. Vitale and Kennedy play. How in the hell does Kennedy become the odd man out last night? Adams played a solid game last night, too, but I could see sitting him for Bennett.

And put Despres in there.


I think the Kennedy for Vitale while keeping Jokinen in the lineup was motivated by the desire to have two good faceoff guys dressed.
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Re: '13 Playoffs Game 2 vs Bos - Thoughts from the Morning A

Postby shmenguin on Tue Jun 04, 2013 9:43 am

Dickie Dunn wrote:
burghsportsguys wrote:
DelPen wrote:9-87-14
19-71-18
10-36-12
24-16-46

Can't hurt.


Jokinen has been painful in the playoffs. He has to sit. Vitale and Kennedy play. How in the hell does Kennedy become the odd man out last night? Adams played a solid game last night, too, but I could see sitting him for Bennett.

And put Despres in there.


I think the Kennedy for Vitale while keeping Jokinen in the lineup was motivated by the desire to have two good faceoff guys dressed.


on the same line :lol:
a line that plays like 8 minutes a game :lol: :lol:

i hope you're not right. freaking out over short term faceoff stats is categorically absurd.
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Re: '13 Playoffs Game 2 vs Bos - Thoughts from the Morning A

Postby pressure=9Pa on Tue Jun 04, 2013 9:44 am

I've always been a Bylsma supporter, but I'll merge two themes of this thread in my next statement. If there were ever a player in the history of the NHL who needed a FHCMT type instead of a HCDB type, it's K. Letang.
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Re: '13 Playoffs Game 2 vs Bos - Thoughts from the Morning A

Postby Take the Body Shoot the Puck on Tue Jun 04, 2013 9:45 am

tfrizz wrote:
Penspal wrote:Misread the team tweet this morning

#Pens Coach Dan Bylsma mum on who his starting goalie in Game 3 will be - 9 hours ago

I read it that HCDB's Mom was going to be the starter for game 3 ;)


If they want to hook me up with some goalie equipment, I'll meet the team in Boston. Chara has to promise no slappers, though.



Hell, put in Hartzell at this point. Vokoun hasn't been stellar, but he hasn't been horrible either (I'm looking at your blown defensive zone coverage). Fleury was given a chance to redeem himself last night and let in a a wrister that had no business going in an a slapshot from the point that he had a clean look at the entire way with no traffic in front.
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Re: '13 Playoffs Game 2 vs Bos - Thoughts from the Morning A

Postby Idoit40fans on Tue Jun 04, 2013 9:46 am

I wish I would have been the first response in this thread and just linked to PFiDC's "AHHHHHHHHH" thread.
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Re: '13 Playoffs Game 2 vs Bos - Thoughts from the Morning A

Postby penmyst on Tue Jun 04, 2013 9:46 am

Gaucho wrote:Pens win: talent

Pens lose: coaching

*shrug*



This happens because in close talent matchups, coaching is often the difference.

If these were 1 goal games, that might not be as true. It could just be one or two players making clutch plays to win it for their team.

When you see lopsided wins, there is a much bigger difference than one guy making a key play.

Now, look at this current malaise with the Philadelphia debacle in your mind. That wasn't even a close talent matchup, like this one is. And to be honest, Boston isn't THIS good. They are looking THIS good thanks to these same ol' Pens that aren't the least bit interested in playing defense-first, patient, team hockey. But instead are forcing the "get to our game" mindset. Which wasn't what they did against Boston in the regular season.

They don't need to force offense. They need to play better defence, and allow the offense to come from the opportunities created by opponent mistakes (forced and unforced).
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Re: '13 Playoffs Game 2 vs Bos - Thoughts from the Morning A

Postby penny lane on Tue Jun 04, 2013 9:52 am

Bioshock wrote:-This team is done. The dynamic of this franchise isn't one that you can win with anymore.
-What i mean by my previous statement is every year this team needs veteran leadership and melts down easily. The players are at fault and need removed.
-Fleury is done as the goalie here in Pittsburgh. You could see it in his body language last night and on that first shot. He is just mentally gone. Toast.
-The coaching staff is at fault (Again) for not having this team prepared or having them play defense properly.
-The players are at fault for not even remotely executing the gameplan laid out by the coaching staff. It's not completely Bylsma's fault that Letang, Crosby, Neal, Iginla and Kunitz are all MIA. Bylsma doesn't tell Letang to completely go rouge for whole periods at a time.

Long story short, no one escapes blame. I think the players are toxic, the goalie is dead and the coaching staffs' message has been tuned out.

I get mad, furious even with Bylsma and some of his decisions, but these meltdowns against the Flyers and Bruins are more on the players than the coaches. I'm not saying Bylsma shouldn't be fired, I'm just saying that don't be surprised if this kind of crap continues under a new regime if they decide to keep the same core of guys.

I wish i was over reacting and i pray i'm wrong on every account and the Pens redeem themselves in the next week but there is nothing, absolutely nothing that gives me hope that they can turn it around.


didn't you have the team done with the isles?
:D
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Re: '13 Playoffs Game 2 vs Bos - Thoughts from the Morning A

Postby DontToewsMeBro on Tue Jun 04, 2013 9:53 am

The crowd grows restless with chants of "FLEURY, FLEURY, FLEURY, FLEURY", The Chosen One runs to the locker room to grab his helmet, it's go time. Sutter scores. Marchand shoots and a nuclear bomb levels the crowd. That was a made for TV moment right there.
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Re: '13 Playoffs Game 2 vs Bos - Thoughts from the Morning A

Postby penguinsbabex25 on Tue Jun 04, 2013 9:54 am

Hawkeynut wrote:About the ONLY thing giving me a glimmer of hope is that the Pens went down 0-2 Vs the Caps back in 2009. They won the next 2. Granted, they lost the first 2 on the road.

Sure, it won't be easy but if any team can win 2 on the road it is this team. Then they have a best of 3 series with home ice.

Grasping straws here, I just really don't want to delve into the stupor of negativity.


Same thing against the Bruins in either '91 or '92 I believe. Lost the first 2 at Boston and then won the next 4. It's possible. We'll see.

Nothing new here, I'm pretty much sick of Bylsma at this point. I'm not really one to jump on a coach's back all that quickly, and I realize that to hope for multiple cups in a few years may be asking for a lot, but to not come even close to a cup these past 4 years is mind-boggling with the talent that we have on the ice. I mean when you look at the PP and see Malkin, Crosby, Neal, on the ice together you know there's something wrong when you're losing 6-1 to the Bruins at home.

Again, already been said, but Crosby, what are you doing? The golden boy of the team who get's everything he wants is doing more to hurt us than he is to help us. More trouble than he's worth last night.
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Re: '13 Playoffs Game 2 vs Bos - Thoughts from the Morning A

Postby Pitts on Tue Jun 04, 2013 9:56 am

Penspal wrote:
penny lane wrote:Adjustments have to be made.
I would add Beau. I was surprised TK was a scratch. Tanner Glass should play.
If Chris Kunitz cannot lift the puck or shoot?

60% of last night was on the penguins. They bumbled around the ice like I've never seen. It got to be almost comical. I couldn't believe what I saw from the entire line up.

Are they fed up with the fragile rep; will they realize they have to meet boston style of play, be better ?

I'd love to be at game 3.


Agree, Kuny doesn't seem to have it (shooting and hitting), likely injured (although is skating is good).
Agree, a little "Sunshine" would go a long way as scoring is as much an issue as D. Fresh young legs for the win.
Kudos to the Bruins for playing amazing shutdown hockey vs. bumbling penguins

Sit Kunitz. He's obviously injured more than he or the Pens are letting on.

Move Iginla to line 1 with Crosby and Dupuis, add Bennett with Malkin and Neal.

3rd line : Morrow/Sutter/Cooke

4th: Vitale/Adams/Kennedy

Back to basics, hunker down and win one to turn this train around.

Hopefully, come back to Pittsburgh even.

Word is Mario was hanging around the locker room after the game looking none too happy. Hopefully, after the media left, he had some stern words for a few players last night.
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Re: '13 Playoffs Game 2 vs Bos - Thoughts from the Morning A

Postby Dickie Dunn on Tue Jun 04, 2013 10:00 am

shmenguin wrote:
Dickie Dunn wrote:
burghsportsguys wrote:
DelPen wrote:9-87-14
19-71-18
10-36-12
24-16-46

Can't hurt.


Jokinen has been painful in the playoffs. He has to sit. Vitale and Kennedy play. How in the hell does Kennedy become the odd man out last night? Adams played a solid game last night, too, but I could see sitting him for Bennett.

And put Despres in there.


I think the Kennedy for Vitale while keeping Jokinen in the lineup was motivated by the desire to have two good faceoff guys dressed.


on the same line :lol:
a line that plays like 8 minutes a game :lol: :lol:

i hope you're not right. freaking out over short term faceoff stats is categorically absurd.


That was my rationale for it, but how they were used was moronic. Keeping Jokinen in the lineup would give you a skilled faceoff guy. Could feel comfortable sending him out to take an offensive zone faceoff for the top three lines and be confident that if he wins the draw they could produce something. Since that seems to be too abstract of a thought for Bylsma, he instead only took four faceoffs last night and contributed nothing else.
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Re: '13 Playoffs Game 2 vs Bos - Thoughts from the Morning A

Postby penny lane on Tue Jun 04, 2013 10:02 am

the golden boy of the team gets what he wants... oh my; way to make your first impression.
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Re: '13 Playoffs Game 2 vs Bos - Thoughts from the Morning A

Postby newarenanow on Tue Jun 04, 2013 10:03 am

Bioshock wrote:-This team is done. The dynamic of this franchise isn't one that you can win with anymore.
-What i mean by my previous statement is every year this team needs veteran leadership and melts down easily. The players are at fault and need removed.
-Fleury is done as the goalie here in Pittsburgh. You could see it in his body language last night and on that first shot. He is just mentally gone. Toast.
-The coaching staff is at fault (Again) for not having this team prepared or having them play defense properly.
-The players are at fault for not even remotely executing the gameplan laid out by the coaching staff. It's not completely Bylsma's fault that Letang, Crosby, Neal, Iginla and Kunitz are all MIA. Bylsma doesn't tell Letang to completely go rouge for whole periods at a time.

Long story short, no one escapes blame. I think the players are toxic, the goalie is dead and the coaching staffs' message has been tuned out.

I get mad, furious even with Bylsma and some of his decisions, but these meltdowns against the Flyers and Bruins are more on the players than the coaches. I'm not saying Bylsma shouldn't be fired, I'm just saying that don't be surprised if this kind of crap continues under a new regime if they decide to keep the same core of guys.

I wish i was over reacting and i pray i'm wrong on every account and the Pens redeem themselves in the next week but there is nothing, absolutely nothing that gives me hope that they can turn it around.


This sums up exactly how I feel.
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Re: '13 Playoffs Game 2 vs Bos - Thoughts from the Morning A

Postby shmenguin on Tue Jun 04, 2013 10:04 am

yeah, i think you might be right, but that's just so incredibly misguided. without even checking the stats, i can tell you that the career faceoff averages of these guys on the bruins are probably under 60%. it's a long term stat, like batting averages in baseball. and in the long run, the difference between an elite faceoff man and an average one is like 10-12%. that's just a few extra wins per game. adjusting your lineup to give you a marginal improvement in a crap shoot is stupid.
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Re: '13 Playoffs Game 2 vs Bos - Thoughts from the Morning A

Postby tfrizz on Tue Jun 04, 2013 10:05 am

Take the Body Shoot the Puck wrote:
tfrizz wrote:
Penspal wrote:Misread the team tweet this morning

#Pens Coach Dan Bylsma mum on who his starting goalie in Game 3 will be - 9 hours ago

I read it that HCDB's Mom was going to be the starter for game 3 ;)


If they want to hook me up with some goalie equipment, I'll meet the team in Boston. Chara has to promise no slappers, though.



Hell, put in Hartzell at this point. Vokoun hasn't been stellar, but he hasn't been horrible either (I'm looking at your blown defensive zone coverage). Fleury was given a chance to redeem himself last night and let in a a wrister that had no business going in an a slapshot from the point that he had a clean look at the entire way with no traffic in front.


I guess nobody noticed Vitale providing a screen at the faceoff dot?

Image

Fleury was still off his angle, but he had nowhere near a clean look at the shot. He needed to either come out another foot or move half a step to his right.
Last edited by tfrizz on Tue Jun 04, 2013 10:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: '13 Playoffs Game 2 vs Bos - Thoughts from the Morning A

Postby RxBandit66 on Tue Jun 04, 2013 10:06 am

Dickie Dunn wrote:The Pens refuse to play playoff hockey. Simple, fundamental hockey. Greatest show on ice, high flying trapeze act, finesse hockey does not work in the playoffs. After the first goal the Penguins dominated offensive zone time for the next 10 minutes but generated few chances and ever fewer shots on goal because to them the perfect pass is more enticing than a shot towards the net. Twenty turnovers in two games compared to three for the Bruins. Keep it simple stupid.

I have zero confidence in Fleury.

Letang was awful and quite frankly looked like a moron who had never played defense before. http://www.mitchkorn.com/defensemanschools.html Should be a big help for next season.

Can't help but wonder how Letang would look if he was paired with Despres. Unfortunately, Disco Dan's complete lack of trust in a talented young defenseman who is easily one of the six best defenseman on the roster continues to hurt the team. Why do Despres' mistakes carry so much weight when the other 7 defenseman make the same rookie mistakes on a nightly basis, with your superstar being the biggest culprit?

9-87-12
14-71-18
24-16-19
27-46-48

44-7
58-47
2-3

92
29

Do it and win, don't do it and lose and I can move on to watching the Pirates' summer collapse.


This is by far one of the best posts I've read in a while, as it describes everything in a nutshell and I agree completely. Couldn't have said it better. And for the record, I do think the Pirates will fade again this year, but not as bad as in recent years. They'll finish a handful of games over .500 and end the streak.
Last edited by RxBandit66 on Tue Jun 04, 2013 10:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
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