Time to re-assess the "core"

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Time to re-assess the "core"

Postby Puck Drama on Thu Jun 06, 2013 12:49 am

Craig Patrick formed a core that led to a Stanley Cup. Since then, the core has wilted into a perennial disappointment. Shero has tried to salvage the core by bringing in past prime players and trading away his mediocre draft choices, Is it time to break up the core? I think Shero needs to get whatever he can for Fleury. Sheo needs to decide which player, Malkin or Crosby - gives the Pens the best chance. After Crosby became a late playoff run no show for the 4th time - it is time to cash in on him and build around Malkin. As far s Fleury and Letang? Letang has value, maybe you might find a team who will take a chance on MAF - I highly doubt it. He become the Pens release at no cost player.
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Re: Time to re-assess the "core"

Postby CERV96 on Thu Jun 06, 2013 12:51 am

As Idoit would say welcome to the foe zone
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Re: Time to re-assess the "core"

Postby Scott on Thu Jun 06, 2013 1:01 am

Puck Drama wrote:Craig Patrick formed a core that led to a Stanley Cup. Since then, the core has wilted into a perennial disappointment. Shero has tried to salvage the core by bringing in past prime players and trading away his mediocre draft choices, Is it time to break up the core? I think Shero needs to get whatever he can for Fleury. Sheo needs to decide which player, Malkin or Crosby - gives the Pens the best chance. After Crosby became a late playoff run no show for the 4th time - it is time to cash in on him and build around Malkin. As far s Fleury and Letang? Letang has value, maybe you might find a team who will take a chance on MAF - I highly doubt it. He become the Pens release at no cost player.


I try not to be sarcastic on here but that post is pure ridiculous.

first of all...there is no "CORE" any longer. The core broke apart the moment Staal left. So the core talk is old, and no longer trendy to use. Spare us all please...

Secondly, Fleury is not going to any team. No team will want a 5 million shaken goalie. Those can be had for the league minimum. They are going to have to spend extra money and find the most premier goalie coach in the world and get back to basics with fleury.

Lastly, Crosby is the team. Playoff this, playoff that...Crosby is the face of the franchise and will remain so until he retires.
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Re: Time to re-assess the "core"

Postby FallenHero96 on Thu Jun 06, 2013 1:07 am

A team would definitely take Fleury, don't be crazy.
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Re: Time to re-assess the "core"

Postby GDR on Thu Jun 06, 2013 1:08 am

the Canucks had teams interested in Luongo, who is even more of a mental case and even more expensive than Fleury is.
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Re: Time to re-assess the "core"

Postby Scott on Thu Jun 06, 2013 1:10 am

FallenHero96 wrote:A team would definitely take Fleury, don't be crazy.


For free in a training camp, sure.....for 5 million dollars per year no way!! The whole world has watched him fall apart. The only way Fleury is not a Penguin is if they choose to cut him but then they are on the hook for his 5 million per year and the remainder of the contract,,,,and get zero service from him.

Not gonna happen.
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Re: Time to re-assess the "core"

Postby KBone on Thu Jun 06, 2013 1:12 am

FallenHero96 wrote:A team would definitely take Fleury, don't be crazy.


Which ones?

And for what in return?
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Re: Time to re-assess the "core"

Postby FallenHero96 on Thu Jun 06, 2013 1:16 am

Scott wrote:
FallenHero96 wrote:A team would definitely take Fleury, don't be crazy.


For free in a training camp, sure.....for 5 million dollars per year no way!! The whole world has watched him fall apart. The only way Fleury is not a Penguin is if they choose to cut him but then they are on the hook for his 5 million per year and the remainder of the contract,,,,and get zero service from him.

Not gonna happen.


Dude. He only makes 5 mil for 2 more years. A change of scenery can do a lot for a player sometimes. It's not like the guy has no talent. Yeah he is rattled now, but some team will take a chance on him and try to rebuild him. He's already shown he's good for 40 wins in a season.

That same Fleury you see broken now could come back and dominate in 2 years. You just never know, and some teams will gladly take a chance on picking up a former 1st overall pick with a stanley cup ring.
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Re: Time to re-assess the "core"

Postby FallenHero96 on Thu Jun 06, 2013 1:17 am

KBone wrote:
FallenHero96 wrote:A team would definitely take Fleury, don't be crazy.


Which ones?

And for what in return?


Do I look like Shero here? Wait and see, you will most likely be finding out soon.
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Re: Time to re-assess the "core"

Postby Scott on Thu Jun 06, 2013 1:18 am

GDR wrote:the Canucks had teams interested in Luongo, who is even more of a mental case and even more expensive than Fleury is.


Uuummmm....pardon me but no team had a serious interest in Luongo. More media kool-aid there you are drinking. What are they going to say? nobody wants him because he has no confidence and he is too expensive? The hockey media does not work like that. Luongo will be the first one to tell you that the sole reason he is still in Vancouver is because of his contract. The interest in Luongo is hollow as it would be with Fleury.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/h ... e10739692/

Typically candid, Luongo said exactly that at a press gathering following practice. When asked why he thought he remained in Vancouver, Luongo answered: “My contract sucks. That’s what the problem is. Unfortunately, it’s a big factor in trading me, and it’s probably why I’m still here.”


You don't spend 5 plus million dollars on a goalie with zero confidence.

P.S.

I love how Luongo said my contract sucks as to why he is still there....what an ass. You signed the contract you goof. Your contract sucks all the way to the bank...what an ass!
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Re: Time to re-assess the "core"

Postby Scott on Thu Jun 06, 2013 1:30 am

FallenHero96 wrote:
Dude. He only makes 5 mil for 2 more years. A change of scenery can do a lot for a player sometimes. It's not like the guy has no talent. Yeah he is rattled now, but some team will take a chance on him and try to rebuild him. He's already shown he's good for 40 wins in a season.

That same Fleury you see broken now could come back and dominate in 2 years. You just never know, and some teams will gladly take a chance on picking up a former 1st overall pick with a stanley cup ring.

I never pull this quote out...but I must this time. Good thing you aren't a GM of an NHL team. :face:

If this was the NHL prior to 2005, then yes someone would wing it and possibly take a shot on him. But with the Cap in place now and no longer are the empty contracts...every penny has to produce some results.

5 million dollars is way too much for a goalie in his current state.

As I said before...the pens need to spend a lot of money on the best goalie coach...and also spend some serious coin on a shrink. I'm not being sarcastic. fleury problem right now is two fold. He is sloppy...and he is a mental mess. The Pens are stuck with him so they need to find a way to get him back on stable playoff hockey ground.

If you think teams are so willing to throw money around in the Cap era...you are sadly mistaken. Luongo is stuck in Vancouver. Contract. briere is stuck in Philly. Contract. I could go on and on. Fleury is stuck here and it sucks because atleast with Briere you can hide him on the ice at times. If Fleury is going to play he can't be hidden.
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Re: Time to re-assess the "core"

Postby wondermoose on Thu Jun 06, 2013 1:51 am

Fleury is gone. There are teams that need to hit the floor and Fleury only has two years left, not 10 like many. He's lights-out in the regular season and could be one of those needs-a-change-in-scenery players.

And maybe it's time to consider trading Malkin or permanently moving him to wing to play with Sid. In recent years, the team has played a much tighter game. With two lines that just go balls-to-wall for offense, it messes up the identity.

And Kris Letang. Get him away from this team immediately or get him a coach that will **** force him to play with his head. Dude is just ridiculously stupid out there in his own zone. If there's a late man coming and he is on the ice, you better believe he's going to be open.
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Re: Time to re-assess the "core"

Postby Chefpatrick871 on Thu Jun 06, 2013 1:52 am

CERV96 wrote:As Idoit would say welcome to the foe zone

Lulz. He's a card carrying member. Maybe even club president.
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Re: Time to re-assess the "core"

Postby eddiefromirwin on Thu Jun 06, 2013 2:02 am

I think there may be clubs out there that would take Fleury and his 5 million dollar salary for a bag of pucks. These are clubs that have trouble getting to the minimum as far as the salary floor. I think that was what the Tim Thomas deal was all about. That being said, don't expect some high draft pick for him.

Trading Malkin is insane. Dude was a beast tonight. That being said, I dont think he could put one in the ocean right now.

Letang? He played a pretty good game tonight as well. I don't see them getting anyone who fills the role that he plays. Guy is an airhead and has some bad games, but he logs a ton of ice time.

2 goals in what, 3 1/2 games worth of time.....how come Sid gets a pass? Yeah, he is winning draws, but that line isn't exactly lighting the world on fire. They have been shut down.
Last edited by eddiefromirwin on Thu Jun 06, 2013 2:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Time to re-assess the "core"

Postby Scott on Thu Jun 06, 2013 2:08 am

eddiefromirwin wrote:I think there may be clubs out there that would take Fleury and his 5 million dollar salary for a bag of pucks. These are clubs that have trouble getting to the minimum as far as the salary floor. I think that was what the Tim Thomas deal was all about. That being said, don't expect some high draft pick for him.

It's not even to a point of what can you get for Fleury...

WE CAN'T TRADE FLEURY EVEN IF WE WANTED NOTHING IN RETURN! Teams are not going to pay 5 million strong for a good goalie in the regular season but a swiss cheese basket case in the playoffs. He will remain a Penguin and the Pens will get him some help with a head doctor and a goalie coach.
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Re: Time to re-assess the "core"

Postby wondermoose on Thu Jun 06, 2013 2:11 am

Scott wrote:
eddiefromirwin wrote:I think there may be clubs out there that would take Fleury and his 5 million dollar salary for a bag of pucks. These are clubs that have trouble getting to the minimum as far as the salary floor. I think that was what the Tim Thomas deal was all about. That being said, don't expect some high draft pick for him.

It's not even to a point of what can you get for Fleury...

WE CAN'T TRADE FLEURY EVEN IF WE WANTED NOTHING IN RETURN! Teams are not going to pay 5 million strong for a good goalie in the regular season but a swiss cheese basket case in the playoffs. He will remain a Penguin and the Pens will get him some help with a head doctor and a goalie coach.


Teams like Edmonton or Colorado or Phoenix (if they don't re-sign Smith) or Minnesota or Florida or Tampa Bay or New York Islanders (not the first choice since they're in the division) would be champing at the bit to get a goalie that has tremendous upside and only signed for two more years. Fleury's an asset, don't think twice about it.

And if they can't trade him, for some reason, they'll buy him out. It's the end of the line for Fleury regardless.
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Re: Time to re-assess the "core"

Postby eddiefromirwin on Thu Jun 06, 2013 2:18 am

Scott wrote:
eddiefromirwin wrote:I think there may be clubs out there that would take Fleury and his 5 million dollar salary for a bag of pucks. These are clubs that have trouble getting to the minimum as far as the salary floor. I think that was what the Tim Thomas deal was all about. That being said, don't expect some high draft pick for him.

It's not even to a point of what can you get for Fleury...

WE CAN'T TRADE FLEURY EVEN IF WE WANTED NOTHING IN RETURN! Teams are not going to pay 5 million strong for a good goalie in the regular season but a swiss cheese basket case in the playoffs. He will remain a Penguin and the Pens will get him some help with a head doctor and a goalie coach.



Who knows? There are a lot of teams out there that don't have the luxury of making the playoffs year in and year out. Some fan bases might consider that sort of comment as being spoiled.
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Re: Time to re-assess the "core"

Postby Scott on Thu Jun 06, 2013 2:26 am

wondermoose wrote:
Scott wrote:
eddiefromirwin wrote:I think there may be clubs out there that would take Fleury and his 5 million dollar salary for a bag of pucks. These are clubs that have trouble getting to the minimum as far as the salary floor. I think that was what the Tim Thomas deal was all about. That being said, don't expect some high draft pick for him.

It's not even to a point of what can you get for Fleury...

WE CAN'T TRADE FLEURY EVEN IF WE WANTED NOTHING IN RETURN! Teams are not going to pay 5 million strong for a good goalie in the regular season but a swiss cheese basket case in the playoffs. He will remain a Penguin and the Pens will get him some help with a head doctor and a goalie coach.


Teams like Edmonton or Colorado or Phoenix (if they don't re-sign Smith) or Minnesota or Florida or Tampa Bay or New York Islanders (not the first choice since they're in the division) would be champing at the bit to get a goalie that has tremendous upside and only signed for two more years. Fleury's an asset, don't think twice about it.

And if they can't trade him, for some reason, they'll buy him out. It's the end of the line for Fleury regardless.


Listen, the NHL has changed. This is not 2003 and prior any longer. Nobody is trading for him...and the buyout thing is not just as simple as buying him out and off he goes. I do believe atleast some of that money still counts against the cap. How else can you explain Luongo, Briere and so many others in the NHL that were NOT bought out to free up much needed money they could have used at the deadline.

Edmonton doesn't need a goalie. They need some structure. I watched every edmonton game this year. Colorado..maybe there is a player now that they made Patrick Roy the all mighty ruler of the ice there. Phoenix...no goalie problems. They actually get some decent play from the goalie but have little to no structure. Watched a lot of those game...and let me tell ya Dave Tippett should never coach a team again. He is the Coyotes problem. No structure. The Oilers and Coyotes actually looked like the Edzo Pens. A mess.
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Re: Time to re-assess the "core"

Postby eddiefromirwin on Thu Jun 06, 2013 2:34 am

I don't think the buyout can be done until the offseason.
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Re: Time to re-assess the "core"

Postby Stevens25 on Thu Jun 06, 2013 8:48 am

I think you guys are forgetting that you can trade a player and eat part of his salary for the remaining years of his contract. What if the Pens traded him and ate 2.5 mil of his contract for the remaining 2 years, and whatever team he went to paid the remaining 2.5 mil.

you know... Kind of like the pirates did with Burnett and the yanks

This new wrinkle from the CBA is going to make trading more interesting.
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Re: Time to re-assess the "core"

Postby shoeshine boy on Thu Jun 06, 2013 10:01 am

Scott wrote:
Lastly, Crosby is the team. Playoff this, playoff that...Crosby is the face of the franchise and will remain so until he retires.


while I agree with you that this will likely be the case, remember people thought the same thing in Edmonton about Gretzky. not only did he leave Edmonton to go to LA but he also had a layover in St. Louis before retiring a NY Ranger.
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Re: Time to re-assess the "core"

Postby thepittman on Thu Jun 06, 2013 10:07 am

Why do you guys bother with puck drama threads? He doesn't even bother to come back to reply. He says a bunch of ridiculous things and hopes the thread goes 20 pages on its own
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Re: Time to re-assess the "core"

Postby meow on Thu Jun 06, 2013 10:12 am

I 100% agree with everything the OP said and this post is in no way, shape, or form sarcastic.

:slug:
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Re: Time to re-assess the "core"

Postby TKovacs2 on Thu Jun 06, 2013 10:13 am

Scott wrote:
wondermoose wrote:
Scott wrote:
eddiefromirwin wrote:I think there may be clubs out there that would take Fleury and his 5 million dollar salary for a bag of pucks. These are clubs that have trouble getting to the minimum as far as the salary floor. I think that was what the Tim Thomas deal was all about. That being said, don't expect some high draft pick for him.

It's not even to a point of what can you get for Fleury...

WE CAN'T TRADE FLEURY EVEN IF WE WANTED NOTHING IN RETURN! Teams are not going to pay 5 million strong for a good goalie in the regular season but a swiss cheese basket case in the playoffs. He will remain a Penguin and the Pens will get him some help with a head doctor and a goalie coach.


Teams like Edmonton or Colorado or Phoenix (if they don't re-sign Smith) or Minnesota or Florida or Tampa Bay or New York Islanders (not the first choice since they're in the division) would be champing at the bit to get a goalie that has tremendous upside and only signed for two more years. Fleury's an asset, don't think twice about it.

And if they can't trade him, for some reason, they'll buy him out. It's the end of the line for Fleury regardless.


Listen, the NHL has changed. This is not 2003 and prior any longer. Nobody is trading for him...and the buyout thing is not just as simple as buying him out and off he goes. I do believe atleast some of that money still counts against the cap. How else can you explain Luongo, Briere and so many others in the NHL that were NOT bought out to free up much needed money they could have used at the deadline.

Edmonton doesn't need a goalie. They need some structure. I watched every edmonton game this year. Colorado..maybe there is a player now that they made Patrick Roy the all mighty ruler of the ice there. Phoenix...no goalie problems. They actually get some decent play from the goalie but have little to no structure. Watched a lot of those game...and let me tell ya Dave Tippett should never coach a team again. He is the Coyotes problem. No structure. The Oilers and Coyotes actually looked like the Edzo Pens. A mess.


The buyout thing actually is that simple. The Pens would owe Fleury (or any player with over three years of NHL service I believe) 2/3rd of his remaining contract value, but would take absolutely no cap hit from it. The no cap hit clause is only good this year and next. His $5 million for the next two years would come completely off the books. Only catch he we couldn't resign him this year, not that we'd want to if we're buying him out. Buyouts have to occur between 6/15 and 6/30 this year. Not sure it that's the case every year moving forward or not.

Luongo's contract is so long that you're talking about the Canucks owing him $27 million to buy it out as of 6/15 this year.. Briere will likely be bought out this offseason.
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Re: Time to re-assess the "core"

Postby since1970 on Thu Jun 06, 2013 10:14 am

....I happen to think there is a market for Fleury, is Fleury better than Yann Denis/Devan Dubynk, or Corey Crawford/Ray Emery, or anyone on the Fla. Panthers/Flyers/Lightning. He's shown with the right system he'll win a Cup. The teams I listed might not be trade partners, but he is still better than a lot of NHL goalies. If he played for Hitchcock/Tippet coached teams he'd be fantastic.
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