Time to re-assess the "core"

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Re: Time to re-assess the "core"

Postby ShipHockey7 on Thu Jun 06, 2013 10:15 am

Malkin and Crosby arent being moved, I'd imagine Dupuis (re-signed), Neal, Kunitz, Bennett are all safe, Sutter is iffy. On D I think anyone could be had at the right price not named Paul Martin. And Fleury is gone.
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Re: Time to re-assess the "core"

Postby MarioLives on Thu Jun 06, 2013 10:18 am

"I try not to be sarcastic on here but that post is pure ridiculous.

first of all...there is no "CORE" any longer. The core broke apart the moment Staal left. So the core talk is old, and no longer trendy to use. Spare us all please..."

Actually I would argue the loss of Staal hardly breaks the "core" of this team. The core has always been Crosby, Malkin, Letang, Fleury and Staal. Losing Staal did not break the core.
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Re: Time to re-assess the "core"

Postby ExPatriatePen on Thu Jun 06, 2013 10:22 am

Amnesty
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Re: Time to re-assess the "core"

Postby Idoit40fans on Thu Jun 06, 2013 10:24 am

MarioLives wrote:"I try not to be sarcastic on here but that post is pure ridiculous.

first of all...there is no "CORE" any longer. The core broke apart the moment Staal left. So the core talk is old, and no longer trendy to use. Spare us all please..."

Actually I would argue the loss of Staal hardly breaks the "core" of this team. The core has always been Crosby, Malkin, Letang, Fleury and Staal. Losing Staal did not break the core.


I glossed over that post originally, but I have no idea what the hell that was about. I guess there is no core, just a handful of really long term mercenaries. :pop:
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Re: Time to re-assess the "core"

Postby RxBandit66 on Thu Jun 06, 2013 10:28 am

I still say leave the core intact. They are still young and in their prime.

Fire the crap coach, his bumbling incompetent staff, and dismantle his failed system. Bring in discipline and accountability. If the players have a problem with accountability, then break up the core.

Any fan wants to see an entertaining brand of hockey, but we'd much rather see championship hockey. We all know defense and discipline wins championships.
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Re: Time to re-assess the "core"

Postby ScottishPenguin on Thu Jun 06, 2013 10:34 am

If money were no object, Fleury would be more appealing than any of the goalies likely to hit free agency this summer (possible exceptions being Smith and Emery, I don't follow those teams closely enough to know if they're expected to re-sign). He's been terrible in the playoffs, but solid and pretty consistent in the regular season, and while his contract is expensive, it isn't one of those toxic you're paying me twice what I'm worth until five years after I retire affairs. He sounds like a perfect fit for a cap floor team whose goal is to make the playoffs.

Trading away Crosby or Malkin is just patently ridiculous and I can't believe people are discussing it.
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Re: Time to re-assess the "core"

Postby Scott on Thu Jun 06, 2013 10:55 am

Idoit40fans wrote:
I glossed over that post originally, but I have no idea what the hell that was about. I guess there is no core, just a handful of really long term mercenaries. :pop:


That is ok..I pass over yours 99 percent of time. Just a tad too busy doing normal things like living...

on the core notation...what is left of the OLD trendy word core? Crosby. Malkin. Period. When Shero started throwing that word Core around....it was only 6 years ago... :roll: ...that you still hang your hat on, Letang was not part of that discussion at that time because unless you forgot Letang was doing the 2 way thing. When that mighty word CORE rolled out Letang was a Baby Pen. The magical Core was Crosby, Malkin, Staal, Fleury. One is gone, the other is mentally gone.

This is what you can say now. The foundation of the Penguins is Malkin and Crosby and rightfully so. Period.
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Re: Time to re-assess the "core"

Postby Idoit40fans on Thu Jun 06, 2013 10:59 am

"Core" isn't something to describe a specific group of players and its not specific to the Penguins. What the hell are you talking about?
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Re: Time to re-assess the "core"

Postby canaan on Thu Jun 06, 2013 11:06 am

So...

if you take the position that fleury should be traded or bought out, who do you make as a replacement? Miller? Luongo? where does that get you and at what price? People are quick to want to eliminate but do what to replace? this isnt meant to be snark, its an honest question.
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Re: Time to re-assess the "core"

Postby DontToewsMeBro on Thu Jun 06, 2013 11:13 am

canaan wrote:So...

if you take the position that fleury should be traded or bought out, who do you make as a replacement? Miller? Luongo? where does that get you and at what price? People are quick to want to eliminate but do what to replace? this isnt meant to be snark, its an honest question.


This is a good question. I happen to think there's a market for Fleury, he's a good enough regular season 'tender that he deserves a shot somewhere else. I know the market is relatively dry this offseason, which is a good and bad thing for us if we're looking to trade Fleury. As good as Vokoun has been, he needs someone to at least split duties with next season, I can see him falling off.
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Re: Time to re-assess the "core"

Postby Idoit40fans on Thu Jun 06, 2013 11:22 am

canaan wrote:So...

if you take the position that fleury should be traded or bought out, who do you make as a replacement? Miller? Luongo? where does that get you and at what price? People are quick to want to eliminate but do what to replace? this isnt meant to be snark, its an honest question.


If you take the position that you just need to get to the playoffs, you can do that with a much less expensive player. If you want to advance, Fleury isn't the answer. If you agree with that, then you don't really need to worry about the replacement when considering getting rid of him.
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Re: Time to re-assess the "core"

Postby cheesesteakwithegg on Thu Jun 06, 2013 11:26 am

ShipHockey7 wrote:Malkin and Crosby arent being moved, I'd imagine Dupuis (re-signed), Neal, Kunitz, Bennett are all safe, Sutter is iffy. On D I think anyone could be had at the right price not named Paul Martin. And Fleury is gone.


I agree with this. With the cap, I cant see Letang and Malkin both being kept, so I think Letang gets traded. We have plenty of potential replacements for Letang in the minors (and one in the pressbox). We do not have a Geno replacement anywhere in the system.
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Re: Time to re-assess the "core"

Postby Beveridge on Thu Jun 06, 2013 11:26 am

Should we explain how the compliance buyouts work to Scott or just let him keep going?
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Re: Time to re-assess the "core"

Postby SoupOrSam on Thu Jun 06, 2013 11:30 am

I will state this again and again and again and sandlot forever again. I want to see a new gt coach before I just dump Fleury. If it's a lucrative trade I entertain the thought. If it's buyout or salary dump, the answer from me is no.

He is still a relatively young goalie who can still be learned and needs the right teacher I want to believe.
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Re: Time to re-assess the "core"

Postby shoeshine boy on Thu Jun 06, 2013 11:31 am

SoupOrSam wrote:I will state this again and again and again and sandlot forever again. I want to see a new gt coach before I just dump Fleury. If it's a lucrative trade I entertain the thought. If it's buyout no or salary dump, the answer from me is no.

He is still a relatively young goalie who can still be learned and needs the right teacher I want to believe.


not only that but it's clear that he needs a sports psychologist.
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Re: Time to re-assess the "core"

Postby SoupOrSam on Thu Jun 06, 2013 11:33 am

Best thing about it is Vokoun can stay the starter with Fleury backing him up for a year. Start over somewhat with Fleury. See if Fleury can embrace a rebuild.
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Re: Time to re-assess the "core"

Postby ExPatriatePen on Thu Jun 06, 2013 11:33 am

shoeshine boy wrote:
SoupOrSam wrote:I will state this again and again and again and sandlot forever again. I want to see a new gt coach before I just dump Fleury. If it's a lucrative trade I entertain the thought. If it's buyout no or salary dump, the answer from me is no.

He is still a relatively young goalie who can still be learned and needs the right teacher I want to believe.


not only that but it's clear that he needs a TEAM of sports psychologists.

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Re: Time to re-assess the "core"

Postby sil on Thu Jun 06, 2013 11:39 am

Montgomery Scott wrote:Ok, if we eject the core and detonate, the blast could be enough to push us away. I can't promise anything though.
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Re: Time to re-assess the "core"

Postby since1970 on Thu Jun 06, 2013 12:07 pm

ExPatriatePen wrote:
shoeshine boy wrote:
SoupOrSam wrote:I will state this again and again and again and sandlot forever again. I want to see a new gt coach before I just dump Fleury. If it's a lucrative trade I entertain the thought. If it's buyout no or salary dump, the answer from me is no.

He is still a relatively young goalie who can still be learned and needs the right teacher I want to believe.


not only that but it's clear that he needs a TEAM of sports psychologists.

fixt


http://www.hark.com/clips/pgncpswtzz-lo ... ic-plaugue
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Re: Time to re-assess the "core"

Postby AlexPKeaton on Thu Jun 06, 2013 12:14 pm

Fleury is signed for 2 more seasons?
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Re: Time to re-assess the "core"

Postby pfim on Thu Jun 06, 2013 12:14 pm

canaan wrote:So...

if you take the position that fleury should be traded or bought out, who do you make as a replacement? Miller? Luongo? where does that get you and at what price? People are quick to want to eliminate but do what to replace? this isnt meant to be snark, its an honest question.


I think they're two separate questions.

1. Is Fleury your number one? If the answer is no, he should go regardless of his replacement. Can't have a guy you don't trust taking up that much cap space, regardless of the availability of a replacement.

2. They don't necessarily need a name like that. Vokoun is under contact for another year, if you get someone who can handle a decent amount of games (30-35) near the same price, I think the Pens come out ahead. I know that's not giving you a name, I'm just eliminating names like Miller and Luongo.
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Re: Time to re-assess the "core"

Postby cheesesteakwithegg on Thu Jun 06, 2013 12:21 pm

Mike Smith is the first name that comes to mind as someone who I would like to see replace MAF (if it happens). However, I worry that he benefits more from the Phoenix system than him actually being an above average goalie. Smith wasn't very good in TB, and Bryz has been terrible since he left Phoenix.
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Re: Time to re-assess the "core"

Postby ExPatriatePen on Thu Jun 06, 2013 12:24 pm

instead of stockpiling offensive "D-Men" maybe we should start stockpiling goalies :pop:
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Re: Time to re-assess the "core"

Postby canaan on Thu Jun 06, 2013 12:49 pm

pfim wrote:
canaan wrote:So...

if you take the position that fleury should be traded or bought out, who do you make as a replacement? Miller? Luongo? where does that get you and at what price? People are quick to want to eliminate but do what to replace? this isnt meant to be snark, its an honest question.


I think they're two separate questions.

1. Is Fleury your number one? If the answer is no, he should go regardless of his replacement. Can't have a guy you don't trust taking up that much cap space, regardless of the availability of a replacement.

2. They don't necessarily need a name like that. Vokoun is under contact for another year, if you get someone who can handle a decent amount of games (30-35) near the same price, I think the Pens come out ahead. I know that's not giving you a name, I'm just eliminating names like Miller and Luongo.

thats fair. i think the two are separate but have a convergent endgame. you still need a goaltender that is going to steal you games in the playoffs or at least instill the confidence needed to battle through slumps. i dont think vokoun is that guy, but hes competent enough to play to a certain level of opposition in the league. i think fleury has the physical abilities to do that, but his bubonic brain has become more the norm than his stanley cup run, which wasnt anything mindblowing, but competent and good enough to hold while he was decently insulated with a younger orpik, scuderi, gill.

im of the opinion that MAF can work, but not in the run-and-gun system that has evolved since the therrien/bylsma combo year. the defense needs to be restructured to play a team game in the three zones, not to focus on overpowering in the offensive end and 80+ft long hail mary's for breakaways...the league is just too adroit to have some glaring mistakes like that come april and beyond. the personnel on the backend isnt sufficient enough to scavenge defensive efforts and supermanning (diving to break up, avoiding penalties) odd man rushes against with successful consistency. its a comedy of errors, based on a systemic indifference to accountability.

im just talking with no real point. just venting.
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Re: Time to re-assess the "core"

Postby shmenguin on Thu Jun 06, 2013 12:53 pm

if we swap fleury for ryan miller, combined with this disaster at hand - my interest in the team drops significantly
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